Not surprisingly there are no takers to my
challenge, after all a PROOF is just that, and cannot be
Here is another challenge to the
PROVE THEIR IS A GOD, and keep in mind that
if you can do that, then you will have just eliminated the God of the Bible
because the whole bible is about the just living by faith and belief and NOT
The greatest scientific minds have believed there
is a God but not one of them was ever able to prove it!
the language with which God has written the universe." -- Galileo
Galilei "What really interests me is
whether God had any choice in the creation of the world"
Amazingly HW Armstrong claimed to have seven
proofs that God exists!
No one else could even come close
to one proof but HWA claimed 7! ( If he did then
he has contradicted the God of the bible!.........)
But why 7 seven when you only need one proof to
Of course none of his proofs are
proofs, but just are means to deceive people which worked well. If
you didn't agree with one of the proofs maybe you agreed with one of the others,
after all if he had 7, one must be correct, surely!. NO!
Again I say, Prove there is a God with a
I'm not trying to say there is no God, rather I
believe there is one but you can't prove that. Armstrong was a deceiver.
I challenge the readers to prove
Ex member Australia
Seven proofs. One for everyday of the week. Seven proofs, "seven" being Herbert's number for completeness.
"Numerology is one of many systems, traditions or beliefs in a mystical or esoteric relationship between numbers and physical objects or living things. Today, numerology is often not associated with numbers, but with the occult,
alongside astrology and similar divinatory arts." From Wiki
Why Herbert couldn't pick the winning lottery numbers, I will never know. God could have financed "the work" without financially ruining all of Herbert's sheeple. Let us watch together and see if God will "pour out ten-fold" the blessing's upon the blue ribbon tithe payers during this economic downturn.
This may be a repeat post to you. I found this sitting in my drafts folder and not in my sent folder.
Just saw your great interview about growing Gay in the WCG. Armstrongism has always had a large number of gay people in it. Most are no longer part of the silliness, but surprisingly a few are still part of LCG and PCG. UCG is a little more gay friendly and has several gay members.
years ago a group of us started web pages and Yahoo groups for people to connect in. Ed originally had our links on the Painful Truth Site, but over the years they seem to have disappeared.
Here is what we have that's still up. Some of it may not be updated anymore, but is still there for contacts:
Actually, Herbert Armstrong was a very
successful newspaper ad-writer in his day and was a man filled with faith in
God. I personally knew many of the
ministers at headquarters Pasadena church and people were taught only what the
bible indicates. As tithing goes we
all tithed in WWCG (as most of the Christian churches do even at this time).
The church did not teach Christmas, Easter
or any of the "pagan" holidays because the bible simply did not advocate
doing so. I don't know how you became
so bitter (I am sorry, and do not mean to upset you) and destruction-oriented against
an organization of the past, but this will not help you to solve your problems.
Only God can help you with this, and not by
tearing apart things of the past that don't even exist now. I received a good rounded education by
studying the bible and learned from this church for 25 years, and I had plenty
of problems of my own. I do not
belong the Worldwide Church of God now and I am free to become what ever when ever
I want. I was never a prisoner of any
kind of or a pawn for anyone in this organization.
I believe in grace and the church changed
from year to year by recognizing truth and then taking steps to correct its
errors. I do know however, the devil
hates anyone who will claim the name of Jesus and the Father. We are all made in the image of the Father,
and to fight and carry on about endless bits and pieces of useless information is
pretty much exactly what God says not to do.
Be thankful you are in a free country and that
you may still worship God, for in a very little time possibly, things could
for writing the Painful
organization of the past still lives on in hundreds of break-off
church cults. The name Herbert Armstrong is worshiped and honored in
most of these. It is the purpose of the Painful Truth to keep this
information available for all those future recruits who might seek
out as to who and what Armstrong was. Further, the Painful Truth is
here to assist in the healing process of the former membership, and to
illuminate the darkness and expose the evil that lived within
Herbert Armstrong and his evil church cult.
So as you can see, the information on the Painful Truth is far from useless. It is pain and suffering screaming out in agony within the text of over two-thousand pages.
You wrote: "I was never a prisoner of any
kind of or a pawn for anyone in this organization."
I sense pride in your misstatement.
"I received a good rounded education by
studying the bible and learned from this church for 25 years"
That was a well
rounded education? Studying the bible? Try taking lessons on objective thinking. There is no way you read much of anything on this site.
As to your God and Herbert, you can keep them. I have no use for your Saviors. Cancel my subscription to the resurrection. Now go away!
a challenge for all the readers out there who think Hwa wasn't a
the proof that he was a false prophet.
a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not,
nor come to pass,
is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath
spoken it presumptuously:
shalt not be afraid of him. Deut 18:22
clearly predicted 1975 in prophesy.
was said, was totally in error, and did not come to pass!
therefore is proven to be a false prophet!
challenge any sound minded person to disprove that!
on the other hand you don't believe in the god of the Bible then the
case is once again proven.
to think of it, I don't need 7 proofs because one proof is
proving Hwa a fraud, doesn't disprove or prove that there is a God!
think many people make the mistake of concluding there is no God
because they reject HWA, but that's not logical!
Thanks for writing the Painful Truth.
the rational person understands that Armstrong was a fraud, the hirelings from the the
various Armstrong churches cannot acknowledge this.
Armstrong is their bread and butter. Armstrong operated on an
international scale to rob, steal, and cheat to get what he wanted,
that being your money. And
what about Herbert's faithfuls? Like
Herbert, they are inimical gasbags but on a smaller scale.
therefore is proven to be a false prophet! I challenge any
sound minded person to disprove that!
here to give an alternate solution, a more suitable one. I don't just ask rhetorical questions; I have answers. That's
why I'm telling you that I've managed to come up with a way in which
Armstrong's writings could be made useful. They
could be used by the instructors in American Universities as a final
examination of sorts. Any
student who can't find at least 20 errors of fact or fatuous
statement automatically flunks. Extra
credit goes to students who realized off the bat that Herbert was an
Glad you escaped and are free of the slavery. Best wishes,
grew up in the wwcg and can relate so much to the ex members and
their stories. I come from a family of seven children and I spent
most of my life hearing stories from my Mom of the abuse from these
pastors and the church. My father was an abusive man and the church
supported his behaviour and made my Mom believe in leaving him, and
not being the submissive broken wife, she would be going to the lake
of fire! My Mom did leave and divorce him after years of abuse. We
were free for 2 years, when my Dad came back into the picture and was
now a "changed man", Baptised by the church, and they were
remarried in our home by a wwcg Pastor. The abuse returned and within
a few years he was on to sexual abuse with myself and other siblings.
My Mom stayed till I was 12 and she left again, divorced him again,
and this time we were free. In 1995 my
Mom left the church and is now a born again Christian and has a
wonderful, loving Christian husband. Although the healing is ongoing,
the scars will be with us forever. I remember the fasting we were
made to do as young children. I remember believing that all holidays
were pagan and not to be celebrated. I remember never having a
Birthday acknowledge because this too, wasn't to be celebrated. How
sick and demented to ignore a childs birthday! I remember lying on
the couch bawling in pain, fever and ear infection waiting till 10pm
or so for a pastor to come and anoint me!! My mom was not allowed to
take me to the doctor or give me anything for the pain. The stories
are endless of the verbal, physical and sexual abuse this cult
endorsed, accepted and forced us and many other to stay in. I am a
Christian wife and mother of two today and I am so thankful for this
site and a chance to have a voice and to feel safe to speak out on
growing up in this cult! I started praying last night for the healing
of the hearts of all the wounded from the WWCg.
bless you for your work! sincerely, Gail
you for sharing your story with the readers of the Painful Truth.
is amazing how many stories have a common thread involving these
Armstrong cults. Spousal abuse, child abuse, drugs or alcohol abuse,
molestation, denial of medicine or life saving medical care. I
honestly believe that mental illness is passed on from the cult
leader to the followers.
leaders cannot "hack
it" in the real world and need to live in a cult/sect
environment to live out their problems.”
you for your letter Gail and may your journey forward be filled full
of love and peace,
I was called and became a member(
baptized) of the World Wide Church of God in 1978. I first heard
HWA over the radio on station KVOO out of Tulsa,Ok.
message that he brought was quite different from what I was hearing
form the Local Church of Christ. In fact, the message was very
enlightening.After much prayer,
I left the Church of Christ and thats when I started going to WWCG.
(Please bare with me as I get to my point) The Biblical truth's that
were being taught and
Gospel of the Kingdom of God that was being preached. WERE NOT BEING
TAUGHT BY ANY OTHER DENOMINATION. at least to my limited knowledge.
Now, In 1985 I was
Dis-Fellowshipped from the Church. I wanted to marry a girl who was
attending church but as of yet was not baptized, where as, I was.
said you cant marry her because she was not baptized, I asked why,
and after several head-butting meetings and my refusal to "obey"
I was given the ---- BOOT.
Now my point is this............I
STILL believe in the Sabbath, Holy Days, PassOver, all the Feasts
............... These Truths were preached by HWA, he revealed
Scriptures and proved that Easter and Christmas are not
So, I know what your
thinking.......... oh jeezzzz he's an ARMSTRONGISM.... NO Iam
not. I got dis fellowshipped from WWCG because I dont believe in
following ( PRAY & PAY). The Leadership was corrupt,power
hungry,they used certain scriptures to show their Power.
But, The message of the Kingdom
of God was geing preached by HWA ,in spite of him, but for
you to say THAT IT WAS A SCAM RIGHT FROM THE GET GO , A MONEY SCHEME
COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY DISAGREE.
Word Of God : You cant put a price tag on it. Even if it helped
just one life.......... my own...... listening to a little
radion staion in the middle of nowhere.
here I am now. I still keep the Sabbath but I have not been with an
sabbath keeping Church for years, I refuse to go to Church of God
International ( GTA)/ PCoG/GCoG/UCoG/ and any other Major
once was WWCG all for the reason that I stated above, the Leadership
is corrupt/power mad/not tending to the flock.
that I have dis-agreeded with you maybe you can help me. If you know
of any minor splinter groups who still hold the Sabbath Holy could
you please give me their information.
I may contact them.
Your kidding right? Do
you really think that I might have a suggestion as to a which cult
splinter to attend? The roots of Armstrong-ism are rotted, hence
what would the rest of the tree be like?
You wrote: "The
Word Of God : You cant put a price tag on it. Even if it helped
just one life.......... my own...... listening to a little
radion staion in the middle of nowhere."
told us that his church would bring us closer to nirvana, but somehow
failed to mention that he himself was closer to the almighty dollar
than any God.
Herbert was eloquent in his
denunciation of modern scholarship, but failed to mention to his
audience that he himself was an high school dropout. The ultimate
irony is that the Armstrong family business was strictly one-way.
Herbert got all the rights, and the sheepeople got all the
Herbert Armstrong was responsible for
suicides, broken homes, and financial ruin for those who attended his
little family owned cult. If Herb spoke for God, then god is Satan.
Good does not come from evil.
Herbert was an opportunist. That is, he
was an ideological chameleon, without any real morality, and without
a soul. In case you hadn't noticed, he produced an army of mindless
sheepeople who willfully obeyed his every command. It is also worth
noting that Herbert was a psychologically defective person. He's what
the psychiatrists would call a constitutional psychopath or a
To define Armstrong-ism: It is like a
man who has lost billions of dollars for his investors in the stock
market, but some investors were quick to point to the millions he has
made by applying his techniques.
A true predator-prey relationship:
Induced compliance without sufficient justification.
I truly believe you need to let go of your hate and anger. It's obvious that you will never be able to move on as a christian or as a hunam being until you do.It was a simple question requiring a simple answer.
God Bless you,
Sorry Jeff, but I am not angry nor am I full of hate. I am here to educate those who still suffer from Armstrong induced cognitive
was born and raised in the WCG, so I have a fairly good perspective,
as well as delusion, into many things with regard to the topics you
raise on your website. At times during reading, I've both found
myself applauding and denigrating you in nearly the same breath. The
reason being is that this is a *very* delicate and complex subject
you bring to the fore--and I applaud you for your efforts in bringing
it to such notice--, because it is not only rooted in truth, but also
has the potential to end in fallacy in some respects. Your most
offensive post, however, is your Flash video comparing the WCG (or
*former* WCG, rather) with a Jim Jones-style cult. Given, some of the
psychological tactics incorporated into the video have been applied
(my own mother being a victim to one of them) in the former WCG, but
others are way off-base and you, as a presumably responsible person
now calling a given group or groups into account, now have a
responsibility to be responsible yourself, and tell the truth, not
only when it is convenient, but when it should be so anyway, despite
your own misgivings.
I am perfectly willing to submit to you
my own experiences withing the WCG from time of birth to date but
you, in turn, need to show a legitimacy driven by your own moral and
ethical compass--a compass I hope isn't ethically and morally
compromised. You have my email address--let me know.
Tim, If you
are referring to the video on the main page, it is a youtube film
made by someone unrelated to the wcg experience. The subject we are
studying is cults. Not just the wcg, ucg, pcg ect, but cults in
James Editor #5
being the case, perhaps the main page's theme should reflect that.
The impression left (and I completely understand the desire to
understand cults, etc.--especially after an experience with one of
these groups) is that the focus is entirely on these groups, and no
whole front page is dedicated to cults in general, highlighting the
Armstrong's scam. Now if you want to send me your story feel free
above exchange was an attempt to alter the content of the Painful
invoking the hue
and cry of misrepresentation as to the front page content. The top of
the main page reflects the study of cults by the graphic which asks
“Are you in a cult?” followed by a quote by Margaret Singer. In
the middle of the page, the Painful
is honored to present a short dissertation on two not so beloved
religious charlatans in which we are all too familiar with. Ending
the theme on cults, the Painful
presents an interactive questioner on cults under the graphic “What
is a Cult?” followed by an article, second in the series, entitled
“Information Control.” Topping off the study is the video “Mind
Control Cults” which covers some, but not all aspects of our shared
experiences. Some aspects of the video apply to the experience,
others do not.
Tim, done with your story yet?
April 24, 2009
Congratulations on the new look and feel of the Painful Truth. Your energy and enthusiasm are refreshing What you have accomplished in a few short weeks affirms my confidence that you are the right man for the job. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for the note John. I am looking forward to the years ahead as editor of the PT. The new look will be applied to all the pages I add to the site. The past pages shall remain as they are with the exception of some of the more popular ones. As you can see, the GTA on Trial page now has the actual video embedded into it.