Email To The Editor
I am 54 years old, raised in a religious family and felt what you have written my whole life. Why don't more women back women as you have done, sadly they don't and that is what hold us back in equality. Men usually always back men, a culture of such which has given them great power over women in history.
After observing many men over my life from my father, father-in-law to my brothers, brother-in-laws even my son and nephews. I have conclude that 'men are hardwired to hate women just as dogs hate cats' the only solution to this hardwiring hazard is to create many laws stopping such as domestic violence laws, sexual discrimination law etc. We need laws counteracting at every corner this inequality, we needs to start with educating our daughter to the highest level as I have my daughters so they can then have the power to make laws and change laws as men want do this for us, sadly. Then perhaps this bible in time will also be seen, stood up to for the fraud it is with law.
I am so impressed with The Plain Truth as it is spot on.
Religion teaches contempt for women. I was raised in a Catholic home and I never saw my father abuse my mother. He thought for himself and didn't need religion to lead him around by the nose. Others are not so wise.
Think about it. Some God creates division in the home making one human more valuable than the other. This is ancient thought and if we were to look for a modern day examples Armstrongism comes to mind along with many other fundamental cults, both Christian and Muslim. It seems this is part of the DNA that makes up the three toxic Abrahamic religions.
As far as the creation of new laws, if the character of a person is abusive then there is no law that will change them into a civilized human. That comes from the heart.
Thanks for writing the Painful Truth.
My name is David Wojkowski and I was born and raised in "The Church." I (and most of my family) left the church in the late 90's after the disillusionment caused by the major doctrinal changes. I was in my early teens when I left and upon my arrival into "the real world" I almost immediately fell into the clutches of drug abuse and have since recovered. In recent years I have discovered that I have High-functioning Autism, moderate depression, moderate anxiety, and mild OCD. I have also come to the realization that these things have probably always been present in me and the lack of medical intervention in my childhood and adolescence due to the doctrines of HWA was more than likely very detrimental. I have also come to the realization that the abuse I endured from "The Church" (Not by way of my parents, they too were innocent victims of the abuse.) caused brain damage; as does all forms of abuse. I have also in this journey of self discovery studied quite a bit of psychology, psychiatry, and neuroscience. In addition, I have obtained quite a bit of first-hand experience with people living with various forms of mental illness including serious personality disorders, emotional disorders, and specifically, schizophrenia.
After reading the vast majority of information available about Herbert W. Armstrong (HWA) from your site and the rest of the internet I have come to believe that HWA had Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) possibly with schizoid tendencies. It seems perfectly textbook; the incest, the lavish lifestyle, the apathy, the selfishness, the prophetic proclamations. His sense that he was chosen by some higher power, that his words were more important than other people's and that other people had not discovered what he had discovered is very symptomatic of NPD with schizoid tendencies. His words and actions tended to be sociopathic and psychopathic.
I'm writing this e-mail because I haven't seen anyone talk about any of this yet, and I think it is very important in this world. Mental illness is very often swept under the rug, hidden in a corner, or stigmatized in some way. That is very counterproductive and can be very dangerous. I looked at your WCG list of suicides and wanted to help bring some light to this situation because I myself am a suicide survivor. I want to help people be aware of how dangerous it is to follow a narcissistic person, help them be able to recognize the symptoms, and come up with productive ways to help guide narcissistic people into a life of compassion, equality, and cooperation.
I would like to know what you think about my "diagnosis" of HWA and would love to further this research with other people who have an interest in helping humanity continue to overcome its shortcomings and create a future FAR brighter than anything The Worldwide Church of God and its sisters seem to be able to see.
Thank you for your time, and your website. It has helped me a lot.
In response to your inquiry as to Herbies NPD, try this search page of our site:
As you can see, your spot on with this diagnoses as we have talked on this for years.
This man Armstrong was extremely destructive and now we have a army of mindless idiots teaching his brand of crap causing further harm to a new generation. What is needed at this time is more people posting their horror stories about this parasitic movement.
If you care to blog about this feel free. Just let me know.
Hi. I placed my own Worldwide Church of God testimony on the web.
What became of Bobby Fischer, former co-worker and his descent is _exactly_ what became of myself. All these years I didn't know how long he was a member until about a week ago I began Googling. I was blown down --15 years of the cult's dogma. I was in it for 18 years. Everything Fischer did about far right, I did it. I wasn't alone. I wasn't the only one who went that dark path. I got out, all the way out.
Unlike Bobby, I did seek psychiatric help eventually, after things got so out of control I was forced into it back in 1995. The docs concluded it wasn't schizophrenia, nor was it manic depression, nor was it "imagined". It was Armstrong all along at the root of my "problem".
Now knowing a brilliant man like Bobby Fischer could've been so misguided, it gave me courage to come out with my story too.
A Vindication of Bobby Fischer
DIAGNOSIS: “Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder” (C-PTSD) which explains Fischer's “bizarre” symptoms stemming from 15 years of deep indoctrination and thought control in the Armstrong Doomsday Cult. I ask that society seek knowledge and understanding about Bobby Fischer's life instead of merely judging what they clearly do not understand. Ultimately compassion and forgiveness. Whether it was leaving the cult, then attempting to fill the vaccuum Armstrong's cult created in our minds, with the cult of “far rightism” or filling the vaccuum with drug abuse the common thread between lives of Armstrong's ex-“true believers” was oft Self Destruction. https://vindication-of-bobby-fischer.co/index.html
Nice website. Good to see an addition to the antiherbal movement.
I will supply a link to your web page later this week.
You wrote: It was Armstrong all along at the root of my "problem".
Yep. I have and others have been saying that armstrongism is a mental illness. And it is.It grabs onto people and removes all logic from the brain and replaces it with myths and lies. Living with cognitive dissonance causes all sorts of psychological stress. I was under the spell for a decade and then I figured it out thanks to Tkach's incompetence. I thought it over for a year or two and then quit and never went back. That was 20 years ago.
Hi, i've read your article re the WWCG (Armstrong's church). I was a member of the WWCG (baptised and all) in the 80's and early 90's. I'm now an Atheist. If there does turn out to be a God in the end, i 'know' he/she/it will forgive me for not believing because he/she/it will 'know' that i am a former member of the WWCG. Mind controlled from the onset, i was a vulnerable member of society (i've since found out that i'm ASD), i genuinely had a thirst for 'the truth' so the 'Plain Truth' magazine on stands in the shopping centre on my way to work everyday, is where it all began. I had a boyfriend and was engaged and i was a vegetarian (well vegan actually at the time), but home visits from a minister called 'Ed Smith' put pay to that. He told me i needed to end my relationship with my boyfriend and start eating meat because what i was doing was Evil in the site of God. Looking back, i think Ed Smith may have hypnotised me at my flat. Any rate, i ended my relationship and seared my own conscience by eating meat. For 10 or so years i depressingly attended Sabbath every wee. At one point i even told my boss that i would have to hand my notice in at work if they wanted me to work Saturdays. My boss amicably allowed me to work Sundays instead (i was graphic artist) while everyone else in my department worked Saturday. I paid a tenth of my wage to the church (as expected). Money that i thought was going to help poor people in the third world. I've since read somewhere that our tithes paid for Prince Charles Opera fund and flying Armstrong round the world in his private jet. I broke my mom's heart when i told her the church had said that 'the church congregation were my family'. I met my late husband at the church and have one child by him. My husbands best friend, i have since found out used to rape his wife until she started to fight back. I also know of one other girl that was raped by a church member. The irony of it is though, my mom was pleased when i said i'd joined a Church. I think she thought that at least i'd be safe and looked after. All the men, treated women as the 'lower sex' with 'no voice'. I was pulled up on many occasion for voicing my opinion. Joining the Church (maybe 'any' church) was the biggest mistake of my life. I can't turn the clock back but 'i do' have a voice and have been using it for many years now to try to ignite people into 'thinking for themselves' and not succumbing to what is basically Nazi (Josef Mengele) style TRAUMA BASED MIND CONTROL. Thanks for listening, Karoline.
Your story on being hypnotized, its not the first time I have heard that. I attended a church after the wcg for a short time and the p- ass-tor would have everyone sing the same phrase over and over. Everything I read on the Painful Truth came alive. I understood what mind control was. I quit having religion as the force behind steering my ship! So your claim is valid. I do understand. Anyway, great to be out of religion!
I am not sure if this email is still active or not, but I thought I would try. I was raised in WWCG, and left as a teenager, I came back as an adult to UCG, as it truly presented a reformed membership in the congregation I started attending with. It was refreshing. But as we all know, the leadership had a veneer full of corruption.
I started looking at things for myself, and despite the fact that I still meet regularly with COG group, I also meet with people that have been kicked out, or have left, and truly care for the people I meet with locally, but have no allegiances to an earthly headquarters. I am awake to the errors of the leadership. The egregious ones I won't address, as that has been done thoroughly already. But a minor one I will address here, the calendar and the holy days.
Your article on the calendar was interesting,
because I agree the hypocrisy of the doctrines of the COGs and HWA are very apparent here.
But you missed a critical point in this article, the entire Jewish calendar is off, not just by a couple of days, but quite a bit more. Here's the math of the Jewish calendar.
After considering the scriptures carefully, I found that the true way to determine the dates of God's holy days are actually very simple, especially if you are a shepherd in Israel who spends nights out with his sheep and can use the moon as a simple monthly clock. Be critical of my explanation, as I have found myself to have so many errors over the years, that I no longer believe I have everything perfect, and no longer need to reconsider my beliefs. But at this point, I am convicted of this method.
The first month of the year begins at the first new moon after the equinox. The first day of the month starts at sundown after the new moon conjunction.
That is all that is needed for a complete calendar that self corrects to the seasons, never goes out of drift or alignment with the sun or the moon. Because it is based on the sun (equinox) and the moon (conjunction). Why sunset for the start of the first day? Because no where in scripture does a day start anywhere other than sunset. Why the conjunction of the new moon and not math or visual citing? Because it's an absolute point in time that no human can dispute and it can be easily predicted before hand, by days, by even a shepherd in the field.
I feel we have lost this basic skill of looking
at the moon and seeing it as an indicator of time, to us in this modern world it just a light in the sky, nothing more. But in the past, the moon was the only calendar. Even the word "calendar" refers to the new moon from Roman times. (from the word kalends).
David knew when the new moon was coming in
advance. (1 Sam 20:5) And in Genesis 1:14 it says "Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years;" The word here for "seasons" is mowed, the same word used in Leviticus 23 for God's annual feasts. No where does it say to use
math in the bible for these dates.
I don't know why I am sending this to you,
as I am sure it doesn't matter much to you now. But I felt compelled. I hope you are doing well. Peace to you.
Isaac Asimov tells the story about the time that he really needed information about sound. He went to the encyclopedia and found just exactly the right information that he needed. Then he wondered who wrote the article, because it not only answered his questions that he needed answering, but it was very well written and authoritative.
Of course, when he checked he found that he had written it. He wrote so much he had written that article for the encyclopedia.
He was, of course, nothing short of amazing. His whole life was pretty much in front of the typewriter and he wrote thousands of articles, hundreds (or more books) on every conceivable subject, including, but not restricted to a Bible commentary, of all things (yes, he was an atheist).
And so it is, I sort of remembered something and started looking back through the Painful Truth blog and sure enough there is an excellent article about the calendar:
It is on spot and quite amazing and brilliant.
If I do say so myself.
I, like Isaac Asimov forgot that I had written it.
But you know, in looking back through the posting on such a variety of topics, I've certainly written a lot of articles worthy of being completely ignored by the Armstrongists (and most everybody else).
Hi. My name is Abe. I read your article and found it
I'm a deist. That's it. I believe there is a supreme
bring and that's about as far as it goes for me.
Religious people believe blindly without even questioning the authenticity of what they read and so eagerly swallow and regurgitate on others. I'm sick of it. The worst are the christians. ...they just assume you share their enthusiasm on their twisted perceptions and if you don't they want to force it down your throat. I've long since divorced myself from the whole concept. They walk up to you and say...oh God told me to come tell you that so and so and so......well I say FUCK OFF. What..are you God's special emissary? Do I hide under my bed or in my closet? Surely if God wanted me to know something he would tell me Himself. They are so caught up in their dream that they do not even realise their arrogance. I say ....Christians. ..and all other religious freaks. ..Please keep it to your fucking self. Stop assuming and stop pretending. Not all of us share your thoughts / hallucinations.
What you say is, to any reasonable thinking person, self evident and truthful - but it is not painful. The 'pain' comes only to the person who does not agree with your dogma, and the 'pain' they have in accepting their own maker made man in his own image - how dare 'him' in that self replicating way create a person who has free will to stand up and state the obvious - a God who makes people think that way goes against man, and therefore presents the greatest pain of all.- fathoming out what God is playing at?.
Keep the good work flowing!!
It is shameful to handle HWA's name and material with such a foolish tone. Mat.7:20 I found the facts I was looking for, in the pdf of HWA's work (his words) Praise the eternal God for his living word. Please regard his carried legacy by HWA's freely distributed works through the PCG. The painful truth is an appropriate name this indeed.Shameful indeed to speak of HWA in such an ugly way and still use his words. Notice Acts 13:41 also verse 46
No Tyler, it is not shameful to mention HWA and the high school theology that he preached. Nor is it foolish to mention that HWA screwed his daughter for a ten year period. The shame is in Herbert's corner and his condemnation is well earned. And shame on you who worship this man over the God you say you believe in.
You wrote: 'I found the facts I was looking for, in the pdf of HWA's work'
The "facts" you were looking for is called Confirmation bias, defined as the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms one's preexisting beliefs or hypotheses, while giving disproportionately less consideration to alternative possibilities.
I did the same when I was in a armstrong cult. But then I woke from my slumber and realized the con.
You wrote: 'Praise the eternal God for his living word.'
The bible is a collection of Christian texts that is the result of men who thought they were led by God to discern his teachings. Just like your Gerald Flurry. His ignorance does not make it so.
You wrote: 'Please regard his carried legacy by HWA's freely distributed works through the PCG.'
The so called "work" is not freely distributed. Its built on the backs of mindless “useful idiots”, that is, people who retain the herd mentality, unable to think outside the herd. Your time is your life and everyone has a limited existence on this earth. When you hand your money to this charlatan, you give him your 'time' or life. You become a tithe slave.
You wrote: 'The painful truth is an appropriate name this indeed.'
shame on Armstrong for all the crimes against humanity he committed.
You wrote: 'Shameful indeed to speak of HWA in such an ugly way and still use his words.'
prison, illusions can offer comfort.”
My name is Barry B and I'm an X member of the wwcog, 1970-1995. I slowly came to realize the mind control (fear) that a religious mind is subject to by means of the doctrines it comes to believe, for good or evil, kinda like the one tree in the garden of Eden God warned about. I have come to learn that all knowledge apart from being given by the Holy Spirit comes by way of the spirit of this world, which can is used for both good as well as evil, depending on intent! Only knowledge that can not be used for evil is that from the Holy Spirit for it is only given to the person whom God has truly changed thru forgiveness in TRUE repentance. We all are admonished by God, in order to know who is of God is to know them by their fruits and in the spirit, not in the flesh or by the flesh. I had some bad experiences with wwcog in my years there, and, I lived in the Big Area for 10 of those years. Among the worst experiences was the very bad book written as a thesis for GTA credits was The Plain Truth about Child Rearing. Unfortunately I studied that mess and applied the "lessons" to my children before I truly was freed by the truth of God with His spirit that empowers one to not be deceived with the knowledge of good and evil. In 1970 I came out of "the world" (Assyria) and into "religion" (Babylon), in my case, the camp/banner I came under was the wwcog. After 25 years of wondering, but sincerely seeking, God rebuked my enemies and set me free to finally have a relationship after proving He was the pearl of great price and I truly loved Him despite all I had to endore, the worst which was messing up my son by Ted's highly misguided "guide" on child rearing. I had a bad father, so my point of reference wasn't good at all. I took the book as church approved, and they were the "real deal", right? Now my son will live with low self esteem most of, if not all, his life! His mother and I ended up divorced, as did her 2 sisters in the church, as well.
One thing I hear from you when you mention the word of God, and that is it sounds to me you take the literal framing of God words written done on paper for what the "words mean", and miss the spiritual meaning (intent) in God's mind (nature), that comes from the other "tree", the Tree of Life, which, if one eats of that one, the result is peace in the presence of God!
Cults do much damage many ways, but util God lives in You thru His Spirit and Word, ALL is futility of life, vexing the spirit (heart) of the non-converted to God's Loving Nature. I wish you peace and rest from all your labors in life in His presence, (true sabboth) the most precious.
Thanks for writing Barry and sharing your story.
You wrote: 'One thing I hear from you when you mention the word of God, and that is it sounds to me you take the literal framing of God words written done on paper for what the "words mean", and miss the spiritual meaning (intent) in God's mind (nature)...'
I don't know where you got that idea from. I am agnostic and do not believe the bible is the word of God.
Best to you,
I think we have heard a lot from all the people that posted here - the unbelievable tragedies and ruining of lives that took place in the WWG cult. It truly was a money making racket - I hear Herbie had four Jetstream planes - God was only interested in quality with money obtained from poor people who reached out for help. The majority of people in the church was really looking forward to be rescued from this world and many people sacrificed their all financially to this HWA money making racket. I still remember how it came to our family's knowledge how ministers stole some of the offering money.
I remember the long Waterhouse sermons - people took cushions to those sermon shows. My brother, when still a child, once committed the unpardonable sin by telling my father that Mr.Waterhouse was God's personal spokesman. He sometimes never opened a bible in his 3 hours plus sermons while telling us what God says - how funny.
It was classic to have seen how the ministers always looked down on the congregation. If you phoned the wrong minister to pray for some illness (since we could not go to doctors), you had to hear you were not in their area and that you had to phone some other minister.
Our pastor always told us to keep him in the picture about our whereabouts but never helped us with anything when we needed help. They were just pathetic.
I left this WWG saga in 1989 and have never looked back. I was so glad that I was finally free from daddy's church and his damnable ministers, that I never attended any church since.
Ironically, there were a lot of very good church members and I would say that 80% + were very loyal to the church and it's teachings. The problems in the church always started with ministers and deacons, from my experience.
I hope that all the people that suffered in the church will somehow find peace and strength to overcome the wrong doings against them and emotional scars.
Thank you for this site.
Look at your experience with the wcg like this. You escaped a prisoner of war camp
and you have a chance meeting with the commandant decades later. He
lets you know he has forgiven you and harbors no hard feelings
against you. He don't asks you how you are doing, no he speaks down
to you with contempt. Keep in mind that he has always turned a deaf
ear to need and suffering and would rather assist it than resist
These are the people who made up the pastoral care of a dysfunctional, unethical, psychopathic church. They were the destroyer of worlds. Our worlds. Treat them with contempt.
I was sorry, after reading your article about WCG tithing abuses to find
that your site is apparently atheist when clearly some of you have
christian backgrounds. Tossing the baby out with the bath water as
regards the gospel is a big mistake. You were spot on in your criticism
of the tithing dogma which has crept into nearly all evangelical and
Pentecostal churches. It is a shame and some day we will all have to
account for our words and actions, and our distortions and dismissals of
All of us here have a Christian background. All of us could tell you how the bible came into existence. Do you know?
Give this video your attention and get back to me for further discussion:
Thank you, Alex, for the painful truth about women in the bible. What a travesty for the human race!
08/07/2016I read your autobiography today (04 August 2016) for the first time and was amazed at your timeline of events and my own experiences.
Like yourself I was born 1943, graduated from High School in 1961. I became a member of the Armstrong Worldwide Church of God (Bakersfield, California) in 1969 and left the church in 1970.
The only thing worthwhile for me with the WCOG was that they challenged me to study the Bible in depth, something I had never done before. I came to realize that the Bible was not the word of God, it was the vain imaginings of deluded men. Polytheistic Mesopotamian and Canaanite systems of belief had been reformatted by the Hebrews into Monotheism.
I see that you still have my articles I submitted to you several years ago on the Bible's not being the Word of God. I don't know if they have been of any help to your readers or not.
Besides my website www.bibleorigins.net I have some 70 YouTube Videos on the Bible not being God's word, that summarize my research at www.bibleorigins.net.under my channel name Walter R. Mattfeld.
In 2010 I self-published two paperback books (1) Eden's Serpent: Its Mesopotamian Origin and (2) The Garden of Eden Myth: Its Pre-biblical Origin in Mesopotamian Myths (both are available via Amazon.com book sellers).
One of the proofs that the Bible is not God's word is the archaeological excavations at ancient Jericho. The site was dug down to bedrock and it was determined to have been settled in the Pre-pottery Neolithic Era (New Stone Age), circa 9700 BC. The site was finally abandoned circa 587 BC with its destruction by the Babylonians and Judah's exile in Babylon.
Some Christians understand Noah's Flood was a real event and is dateble to circa 2340 BC based on the Bible's internal chronology. Jericho being founded circa 9700 BC suggests it was 7,360 years old when Noah's Flood overwhelmed the earth and all its mountains. Yet no flood deposit was found at Jericho for that date, nor for any other period of time. Conclusions: There is no Holy Spirit inspiring Moses to write about Noah's Flood. Jesus taught that the Flood was a real event. The absence of flood sediment at Jericho says otherwise, thus Jesus, like Moses is a FRAUD. Mohammed the Prophet also taught the Flood was a real event, as informed by the angel Gabriel. Again Mohammed and the angel are FRAUDS. Judaism, Christianity and Islam are FRAUDS, because they all claim Noah's Flood was a real event but there is no flood sediment at Jericho at anytime from 9700 BC to 587 BC.
The Mesopotamian flood myth mentions a city called Shuruppak where the Mesopotamian Noah is warned to build a boat and stock it with the seed of animals and of man for a post flood recovery. He lets 3 birds free to test the abating flood waters like Noah, the flood occurs at the end of a 600 year cycle like Noah. In 1931 Archaeologists excavated Shuruppak (modern Tel Fara in Iraq) and determined only one flood sediment existed circa 2900 BC, from a flooding Euphrates River. No sediment was found for 2340 BC (Noah's Flood). But both floods, 2900 BC and 2340 BC are dated to the 3rd millennium BC. Conclusions: the Shuruppak flood was a greatly exagerated tall tale about a flooding Euphrates River. No mountains were covered, no world was destroyed. But the Mesopotamian myths say the boat beached atop a mount. The Mesopotamian word for mount is kur, which has several meanings, mount, land, region, country, and underworld. Apparently over time the flooded kur-land about Shuruppak was transformed into a kur-mountain the boat beached upon and based on this misunderstanding the Hebrews accepted the Mesopotamian notion of a mountain covering worldwide flood. Conclusions: Judaism, Christianity and Islam erected their houses of faith upon the sediment of the flooding Euphrates River at Shuruppak circa 2900 BC. Now what do you think the reaction of the world's apologists would be to this revelation? Deny it it? On what basis? They would have to claim Jericho is missdated and was founded after Noah's flood of 2340 BC.
All the best,
(I explained to Walter that I am the 4th editor of this website.
Walter responded back with this:Dear James,
Your readers may have an interest in who I am, and my research methodologies and suppositions, and an interest in some of my research using Textual Criticism and the findings of Archaeology. So I have added the following urls for those with such an interest:
07/11/2016I've only recently discovered Shermer--via Harris, Hitchens, etc.--and (of course) I'm very impressed by his talent to articulate so thoroughly the antecedents and underpinnings of various unfounded beliefs. How I missed his vital input for so long, I don't know. Probably because I was operating in a popular (religious) belief system that claims to have all the answers--operating and indeed expounding it as a minister.
At any rate, emerging from the fog of so many years it's good to feel solid, testable, verifiable, scientifically grounded facts, theories and opinions under me. And Michael Shermer provides a handy study guide for people like myself, which brings me to my question: To your knowledge, is Shermer and his work offered on the college level as part of say, a course in Existential Psychology or anything at all?
I can imagine a curriculum that would include Shermer, Frazier, Campbell, Camus and Aquinas, or variations of the sort (Jung and Victor Frankl?) being a well-attended and meaningful series.
Long ago, I was a Psyche major and as such learned something about scientific method. I realized my attachment to Christianity--my allure--was emotional, framed by a cultural predisposition. But, all those lost years... Would that others might be spared.
Now I never heard of Shermer offering up college courses, however, perhaps the best education that we received was reading his and others work after experiencing a cultist experience.
We did not learn theory, we lived it and that makes you and I a
We are going thru a divorce after 8 years of fighting and 12 years of marriage.
3 young children.
I just learned in February, after 12 years of marriage, that my wife and her family grew up in this church in middle Tennessee.
I'm in shock. This has destroyed our marriage. My wife is suffering some kind of deep trauma, deep depression, believes she is "perfect", has talked many times of wanting to kill herself, yet will say she had a happy childhood. It's an intimacy issue...she doesn't feel safe being close to anyone. She has secrets since I met her. I actually wondered in january if she'd been raped as a child. I could sense something was bottled up in her.
And the courts have sided with her. I'm a wreck. My heart is tearing out. Don't know if my kids are physically safe, or if they are emotionally safe. I've been a stay at home Dad for 3 years and now I have every other weekend, ordered to pay child support, looking hard for a job and going to be in contempt of court soon.
I cried and cried when she confessed this to me. She was in from birth in 1977 to age 16. Her family stayed in longer. I never heard a peep about this from anyone.
What do I do?
In a nut shell, if she doesn't want help she cannot be helped. She may or may not have been raped by family or friend, who knows. Right now I would worry about who gets custody of the kids.
You need to present before the court documentation of her suicidal threats. Suggest that she be examined by a psychologist (kids also). The kids should be your major concern at this juncture.
If you can link her problems with the cult you could educate the court by presenting them with copies of other abuse victims posts here on the Painful Truth. The mail pages have endless stories of abuses that occurred in the WCG. Also 'Horror Stories' pages have lots of information as to members psychological problems.
I hope you have a lawyer involved. Without one your worse fears could be realized.
Good luck my friend.
I'm married and a Christian, my wife and I get so much confused with some verses in the bible.
We have even decided not to read the Old Testament at all. I would also like you to explain the "Book of Enoch " that was removed from the bible, and the reason why. Which other books were removed and can't there be the 21st century panel to double check the work of the early scholars?
The youth has got a thousand of Un answered questions about the Holy Bible.
Mr Wanda Gumede
You wrote: 'I would also like you to explain the "Book of Enoch "
Hello James . Just a note to say all my family are free of Armstrong legacy. My daughter actually went Baptist, which seems like paradise compared to WCOG. Rest of us Agnostic or Atheist. At least now she is engaged, something that never seemed to pan out with the WCOG guys. Never god’s will it seemed. this Armstrong poison spanned near 4 decades before even the worst affected woke up to varying degrees. My daughter had read THIS website, years ago and I like to thing it made a genuine difference. Thank you James!
Bob, You are indeed welcome. Freeing those caught into slavery. Its what we do.
Very well written, want to commend your explanation. My only objection is to 'I wouldn't advise' it. As an agnostic, have done much research beginning with the Roman Empire. I don't profess to know all, but do understand the structure and progression of religious beliefs. My tendency leans towards the ancient agricultural religion, still recognized as a religion. I find it sad that these basically good people have had to hide behind what the crusaders considered evil for their own selfish need to control. Don't belong to a covent, it's simply a beautiful, private and uncomplicated way of life if one looks at it correctly.
Which article are you referring to? I have over a thousand!
Just What Do You Mean, Pagan or Heathen? By John B
You Wrote: 'Don't belong to a covent, it's simply a beautiful, private and uncomplicated way of life if one looks at it correctly.' Is that not what an atheist does? Not have any religious affiliations? Thank you for the letter.
....and thank you for taking the time to respond James. I agree. It's been my understanding that practicing the belief privately is considered acceptable. Have visited this shop. However, concerned over the 'occult' inclusion, which I am opposed to. You are correct on interaction with like minded individuals. I will work on it.
I like your page and want to vent about something that infuriates me to no end.
Last Easter, a coworker came up to me, not knowing that I spend considerable
time learning about ancient cultures, and said: "Easter was started
when the pagans would sacrifice a new born and paint the eggs with
blood. I'm glad we're so much more civilized." She's lucky I wasn't in a
particularly bad mood that day, but I definitely corrected her with the
purpose of Ostara and informed her that there is no evidence of child
sacrifice among pagan cultures.
You wrote: 'it defines pagans as "heathens" all while pedophiles maintain positions as clergy.'
And don't forget that it is the clergy who sacrifice the children to a modern Moloch known as the ACOG's. Human sacrifice has gone on in the Armstrong churches since the inception of the Radio Church of God. Perhaps even before when Armstrong had his ministrial license issued by the church of God conference back in 1932.
I have been reading up on the Herbert Armstrong incest story. I had a few questions to ask.
1) did he bear any children to dorthy?
2) Did Ramona Martin ever break her silence about their marrage and is she still alive?
3) Are the complete court documents of the HWA divorce available and can they be obtained?
4)What is the story of Atty: Stanley Rader?
5) Is the Tucson news story available and if so, how can I get a copy?
6) "temple of the airwaves a visit with garner ted Armstrong"
7)Were people paid to shut up of what they knew? was GTA's wife paid off to get money for her silence?
8) What is the truth of the court + state of califorina seizing control of the WCG? who were the people and what kind of wasteful spending was going on?
look forward to your reply
Quite the list to take to task. I will answer a couple of your questions here.
1) did he bear any children to dorthy?
Did Herbie get his daughter knocked up? I have heard that yes he did and that there was a child born who was mentally disabled. Can I prove it? You would best ask those of the Armstrong clan. Maybe you could get an honest answer. Maybe not.
3) Are the complete court documents of the HWA divorce available and can they be obtained?
Yes, from the court house in Tucson. You may want to call the court house. There were put into digital form some years back.
5) Is the Tucson news story available and if so, how can I get a copy?
Its on the front page of the Painful Truth, near the bottom.
2) Did Ramona Martin ever break her silence about their marrage and is she still alive?
Yes the last time I checked, hence no copies of the divorce will appear on the Painful Truth until I hear otherwise.
The rest of your questions can be answered by some research using the search engines on the front page of the website.
Interesting article on Herbert W. Armstrong and his various sexual abominations. I had heard whispers about Dorothy during the 1970’s but was told that they were all “vicious Satanic attacks” on the “Apostle”.
I read the “Missing Dimension on Sex” as a teenager and apart from making me embarrassed by my own sexuality I must confess that the “missing Dimension” was still missing after multiple readings.
During a Men’s Club meeting, a group of us directly asked our respected preacher how he, as a preacher, could reconcile the claim of Garner Ted Armstrong that he had sex with over 200 women. The answer was enlightening. He said he simply closed his mind to such revelations. We supposed that his money supply would have dried up if he opened his mouth. None of us were particularly impressed by this spineless, unscriptural answer.
It is interesting that you consider that it is Herbert’s aberrant sexuality inspiring his Biblical mania, rather than the reverse. Who knows.
However, Herbert was, without a doubt, one of the greatest con-men of all time. Worthy of a TV series.
If you have anything you would like to submit to this site,
or any comments, email me at:
Do not duplicate, copy or redistribute in any form without prior written consent.