Comments on Ambassador Watch: Cover Up

I can't believe the fantasy worlds some people liv...

2007-12-18T15:26:00.000+13:00

I can't believe the fantasy worlds some people live in. They were't there. They don't have proof of any of the circumstances and yet they make incredible statements. Like saying that Charles would have Diana killed so that he could have Camilla. He already had Camilla, he didn't need to marry her. In this day and age you can have a relationship without marrying the person. I honestly don't believe that Charles who loved his sons would do something so horribly cruel to them as have their mother killed just for some petty personal selfish reason. And I don't think that the Royal Family is so petty that they couldn't handle having a half muslim relation in their family tree. Resorting to murder for such a petty reason is ridiculous.

I find it amazing how people read what the media s...

2007-12-18T15:08:00.000+13:00

I find it amazing how people read what the media says and they think it is all gospel. People can't see the forest for the trees. They can't think and form their own opinions from observation. The media tells us that Charles abandoned Diana for a "horse faced" woman like Camilla and stupid people believe it. Just because the media claims that Diana said that she loved Charles stupid people believe and accept it without thinking. If a woman as good looking as Diana was truly in love with Charles she never would have lost him to a woman who had less to offer. Clearly Camilla treated Charles with love and respect that Diana never did and that is why he drifted away from Diana to Camilla after his marriage. I saw film footage of Charles and Diana when they were single and she clearly was never in love with him in any shape or form. Once when he kissed her hand in public she laughed at him like he was a silly old fart. And since he was twice her age, why would she be in love with him? She was in love with what his position in life would offer her, not with him at all. She was a spoiled brat rich kid, daughter of the earl of Spencer or whatever his title was. I saw the photos of her and her siblings in books, where they all got their own car for Christmas. I see a rich little snot when I look at the photos of her in her youth. The Lady Di myth doesn't impress me at all. Sure she was young, sure she was beautiful, but that didn't make her a good wife or a person that a man would fall in love with.

I Bamboo_bends said.......I'd say Diana lived a mo...

2007-09-29T08:59:00.000+12:00

I Bamboo_bends said...

....I'd say Diana lived a more "human" life.

I forgot when I wrote that, that Armstrongists would interpret a "human life" in a pejorative sense.

I meant it as a compliment. As in a human's highest calling. She's a fine example of a human being rising above circumstances. While her private life was a mess (and what human life isn't torn with one disaster or another?) She finds herself anew in public life.

She had a face made for cameras, and a wonderful smile. Yet her husband couldn't handle living in the shadow of her popularity. Charles abandons her for a horse-faced woman he apparently imprinted on early on in his male development. No camera will drift from Charles to Camilla, that is now sure. Such narcissism.

When the crown tried to shut Diana up, she visited the sick, AIDS victims, land mine sufferers.

Was she murdered? I think its likely. They never expected the public reaction to her death. As to who did it? I don't think we need to know, those who did it have live with her being immortalized for all history as the beauty who never grew old, idolized by heirs to the throne that adore their mother. And no jail cell could more more torment than that.

Jordan said :God created non-Armstrongians so ther...

2007-09-27T23:19:00.000+12:00

Jordan said :

God created non-Armstrongians so there could be a world for Armstrongians to come out of. But other than that, there's really no value in their lives today, since they will have to wait until the second resurrection to get their chance.

A very interesting take on yet another major contradiction of Armstrongism!

. . . bitching and moaning about all the sins and immorality in the world today. That "warning message to Israel" is in direct contradiction to the doctrine of the second resurrection . . .

Well, what would be left for them to do then? What "work" would there be for them to perform? And what would people like David "Bent" Ariel do? Come home and open a hardware store?

But I guess the Herbster, like most of the rest of his converts, never thought thru or beyond all this. And since they all knew that Jesus was returning in 1975, there was no need to do so. The only problem is, when Jesus didn't show up on time, all the spin and back peddling started.

And the Spin Meisters are still at it to this very day. It should be obvious to any rational person why the Armstrong movement is just a fragmented & feckless remnant of its former self.

Hello again Swen,I'm still laughing about that one...

2007-09-27T16:52:00.000+12:00

Hello again Swen,
I'm still laughing about that one!
I have to say its better than the supermarket!
Call me next week when you're home!
helen

"... and a Douglas Winnail action figure and..."Th...

2007-09-27T14:06:00.000+12:00

"... and a Douglas Winnail action figure and..."

That made me spew beer all over the keyboard. Are you the same entity who wrote the Gay COG comment on the other thread?

Paul

the British Royal family is the foremost and most ...

2007-09-27T13:33:00.000+12:00

the British Royal family is the foremost and most sophisticated of all the Royals.

There is a conspiracy, but it wasn't to kill Diana. The conspiracy was to fake the death of Diana. Then, with a master stroke, they started the paparazzi story.

The truth is clear if one follows the inconsistencies. Diana was pregnant. The Royals couldn't take the embarrassment of a muslim step child. Charles loved Diana but actually was in love with Camilla.

Charles loves his sons, and he wouldn't harm them. Solution, fake the deaths, and everybody gets what they want.

Charles gets his family and the woman he loves, the boys get their rightful inheritance and Diana gets her freedom and a new love. And, lastly, the public gets a martyr.

Pretty neat, and with no need to cover-up a messy murder!

This on Mother Teresa is well worth reading, I thi...

2007-09-27T11:15:00.000+12:00

This on Mother Teresa is well worth reading, I think:

http://www.ratzingerfanclub.com/blog/2007/09/hans-urs-von-balthasar-and-mother_24.html

Mother Theresa is a strange bird. And yet she says...

2007-09-27T10:59:00.000+12:00

Mother Theresa is a strange bird. And yet she says, she did not find God in it.

No, she doesn't.

One could spend weeks analyzing the Catholic psyche.

Only "weeks."

And is there really a single "Catholic psyche."?

Of the two, I'd say Diana lived a more "human" life.

True, at least in the sense of a more ordinary sort of life, the sort most of us would find fun or exciting. And yet she had a pretty sucky life, all in all, and an unhappy death. I find Mother Teresa's spiritual yearnings and emptiness far more interesting than the shallow celebrity life of Diana, Princess of Wales.

As for the so-called "second resurrecton" (a term that appears nowhere in scripture), well, all I can say is it's awfully thoughtful of God to create all these people to serve as nothing more in this life than background noise and furniture for faithful Armstrongians in this life -- their lives today are pretty pointless, all in all, since they won't get their chance for salvation until the spiritual elite qualify for the Kingdom. But hey, if they didn't exist, there wouldn't be anyone to sell Armstrongians food and booze and toys during the Feast of Tabernacles, and there wouldn't be anyone to operate hospitals and restaurants for Armstrongians on the Sabbath. In short, God created non-Armstrongians so there could be a world for Armstrongians to come out of. But other than that, there's really no value in their lives today, since they will have to wait until the second resurrection to get their chance. So they can just live it up today, since God won't judge them for anything they do in this life -- he'll only judge them for what they do during their "do-over" 100-year White Throne Judgment period.

And since God isn't judging any non-Armstrongians today, and Jesus commands, "Judge not lest ye be judged," that means all Armstrongians must stop writing articles bitching and moaning about all the sins and immorality in the world today. That "warning message to Israel" is in direct contradiction to the doctrine of the second resurrection, and Herbert Armstrong's followers must cease and desist immediately all of their attempts to warn the Lost Ten Tribes about their imminent invasion by the Assyrians, er, Germans. God doesn't hold non-Armstrongians accountable for their sins in this life, only the next life, so there won't be any divine punishment of the unconverted. It just wouldn't be fair of God to whack people for doing bad things when they never knew better.

BB>>But I betcha you're still hung up on his doctr...

2007-09-26T20:19:00.000+12:00

BB>>But I betcha you're still hung up on his doctrines!<<

What were his doctrines? Unless I know what they were, I can't say whether I am hang up on them or not.

vistaadmin writes:Anyone calling himself a ministe...

2007-09-26T09:32:00.000+12:00

vistaadmin writes:
Anyone calling himself a minister, who put financial considerations before the welfare of God people is a despicable hireling.

Amazing! You summed up the essence of HWA and Armstrongism! Bravo Vista Admin! Do you really think changing one doctrine changed anything about Armstrongism? Its a system of control as much as it is a set of beliefs.

But I betcha you're still hung up on his doctrines!

And I betcha you'll condemn a person in the judgement day before you'd eat a lobster or let you kid play basketball on Saturday!

There's a scene in the HBO TV series Big Love, where the bratty little LDS Mormon girl turns to the FLDS father and says "are you truly happy in your apostasy?"

Conversing with you is a bit like that.

Anon. said :Thankfully, truth does not depend on c...

2007-09-26T09:29:00.000+12:00

Anon. said :

Thankfully, truth does not depend on consensus, at times it exists in spite of consensus:-)

Well, according to Armstrongology, those "called out" ones only get one shot too. It's just that they get their shot now. And they better not screw it up, cuz they ain't gonna be no second rez (or second chance) for them!

Frankly, whether it's Armstrongology, or traditional Christianity, it makes no difference. Religion is built upon superstitions, which are based upon a set of ancient books that nobody can read in the original anyway.

So, whether your hold to a fallacious minority position, or a fallacious majority position, none of it matters at the end of the day. It's all just one big fallacy.

In the long dark night of nutty comments on this t...

2007-09-26T07:45:00.000+12:00

In the long dark night of nutty comments on this thread, Libro 66 shines forth like a beacon of good humor. Inspired!

Libro 66 Great!!I think this must rate very high i...

2007-09-26T05:16:00.000+12:00

Libro 66

Great!!

I think this must rate very high in 'classics' of comments.

Dear Santa,Hi, it's me! I didn't know you were in ...

2007-09-26T03:27:00.000+12:00

Dear Santa,

Hi, it's me! I didn't know you were in the Church! When did you come into the truth? Are you baptized? Are you a minister? I think it would be so cool to be a minister, but I can't 'cuz I'm a girl, but maybe I can be a deaconess someday.

I am 8 years old, and I go to LCG. I hope that's okay with you, I know you don't really like Mr. Meredith, but my daddy Libro says he's just a man, so maybe I'm on your good list? I hope so.

Anyway, this Feast I would like a pony and a puppy and a Herbert W Armstrong action figure and a Playstation 3 and an electric guitar and a Roderick C. Meredith action figure and one of those new Furbys with real feelings and a little sister and a Douglas Winnail action figure and... well, maybe not the Dr. Winnail action figure, I always fall asleep during his sermons. (is that bad?)

Oh, and can I have a bikini? I know Mr. Meredith says we can't wear a bikini at the Feast anymore, but I would sooo love to have one, 'cuz I think I look funny in a one-piece. Bring my Daddy a Speedo too, becuz it'll make his face turn all red when Mommy asks him to wear it. ;-) I would ask for a Tickle Me Elmo Extreme TMX too, but Mommy hates Elmo.

And could I maybe meet the boy I'll marry someday? I know Mr. Meredith used to say Jesus will come back in 2018 and then I'll never get to grow up and get married and be a mommy, but Mr. Meredith hasn't said that in at least a year, so maybe he's got Jesus to change His mind. But even if He does come in 10 years, can I at least have a boyfriend when I get old enough? I promise I won't kiss him unless he proposes, and even then just a little bit.

Oh, and can I ask for love, joy and peace in all the world this Feast? I'd ask for love, joy and peace in God's Church too, but that might be too much for even you to do.

I'm so excited! It's so cool that you're in the Church now, so you can give presents to all the girls and boys who keep God's Holy Days. I love you, Santa!

Love, your friend,
Li'l Libretta

PS -- I can't remember the address where we're staying for the Feast, but you have the internet, so your elves can look it up.

PPSS -- Don't let those mean people make fun of you just becuz you like Vista, Santa. Daddy says Vista is cool, even though it won't run all the programs he has to use at work and he has to run XP in a special window just so he can get his work done.

PPPSSS -- My daddy says he knows some ministers who got fired from Worldwide but wouldn't sign the papers to get the money. He says signing the papers meant you couldn't say anything bad about Worldwide, even if it was the truth, so the ministers wouldn't sign it and they didn't get the money. Isn't that cool? If I was a minister, I wouldn't take the money either. Your friend, Libretta.

>>The UCG ministers managed to get themselves a de...

2007-09-26T01:34:00.000+12:00

>>The UCG ministers managed to get themselves a decent severance package on the way out, but stayed long enough to collect it.

Rod Meredith stayed around just long enough to get WCG errors and ommissions insurance to pay off his million dollar liable case brought by Mrs McNair. But once that was paid, he was outta there!

They're all such a remarkably brave and courageous lot of men! The cost of loyalty in this age is ones mortgage (or pension).<<

****************************************

Thank you for reinforcing my point.

Anyone calling himself a minister, who put financial considerations before the welfare of God people is a despicable hireling.

I would hate to be in their position in the day of judgement, for they will receive a punishment worse than death.

Mother Theresa is a strange bird. And yet she sa...

2007-09-26T00:37:00.000+12:00

Mother Theresa is a strange bird. And yet she says, she did not find God in it. One could spend weeks analyzing the Catholic psyche.

Of the two, I'd say Diana lived a more "human" life. The fact that the English monarchy ignored her death at first, leads to a remarkable bit of suspicion. At least Kennedy's killers went through the motions of grief.

In a remarkable bit of tangential thinking VISTADMIN writes:

HWA never had any ministers! WCG's former ministers were either ordained by God or were planted in the church by Satan to disturb the peace of the flock.

We're to assume the ones that did what you wanted were the ones ordained by God?

Its remarkable how ministers are preaching for God until they are working for Satan! How about none of the above?

Sadly, events have demonstrated that the vast majority of them were ministers of Satan, who fed themselves while the flock died of spiritual and sometimes physical starvation.

So who didn't physically eat?

The ministers who failed to speak out against the spiritual poison Joe Tkach was feeding the flock, or took a bribe, in the form of a financial package, to betrayed God's people are described by Jesus as hirelings.

That's pretty much all of them that disagreed then. The UCG ministers managed to get themselves a decent severance package on the way out, but stayed long enough to collect it.

Rod Meredith stayed around just long enough to get WCG errors and ommissions insurance to pay off his million dollar liable case brought by Mrs McNair. But once that was paid, he was outta there!

They're all such a remarkably brave and courageous lot of men! The cost of loyalty in this age is ones mortgage (or pension).

I'll go puke now.

Even handed enough. Once you are several million y...

2007-09-25T20:16:00.000+12:00

Even handed enough. Once you are several million years down the line, a thousand or so years doesn't make a lot of difference, compared with eternity.

2007-09-25T20:11:00.000+12:00

This comment has been removed by the author.

"...the vast majority of Christian thought says th...

2007-09-25T12:57:00.000+12:00

"...the vast majority of Christian thought says there is only one resurrection. You get one shot at "eternal" life and that's that."

thankfully, truth does not depend on consensus, at times it exists in spite of consensus:-)

said :But if there is a ‘second resurrection’ – th...

2007-09-25T12:55:00.000+12:00

said :

But if there is a ‘second resurrection’ – then all humanity gets an equal opportunity. God has treated all humanity even handed.

Well, as with that Hertz Rental commerical, not exactly.

Your basic Armstrongological theology keeps you coming back to improbabl scenarios, like this second rez doctrine. Which means your God is NOT even handed. Because I assume you want to be in the first rez? :-)

Once again, I personally don't believe in any of this Armstrongology, or even convential Christianity. And my opine is just as good as any of those propornets are, who are reading out of a set of books from a long dead language (and have been killing each other for centuries for so reading).

If there is no resurrection, then that is very sad...

2007-09-25T11:29:00.000+12:00

If there is no resurrection, then that is very sad, but there is not a thing that I or any other human being can do about it. It also makes the mystery of life even more mysterious.

If there ‘is only one resurrection… one shot at “eternal” life and that’s that.’ Then it’s very sad for the vast majority of humanity, who never had a chance to make use of this ‘one shot’, because they weren’t in the right place at the right time, and didn’t happen to be Christian, or maybe not the right brand of Christian.

But if there is a ‘second resurrection’ – then all humanity gets an equal opportunity. God has treated all humanity even handed.

Which is the most just and equitable? Is God just and equitable?

(Perhaps you should also check there really is a Santa Claus, before you ascribe this role to Vista Admin).

Questeruk said :What is so bad about the 2nd resur...

2007-09-25T10:15:00.000+12:00

Questeruk said :

What is so bad about the 2nd resurrection? For example the terrorists that caused the 9/11 destruction of thousands in New York must have been sincere, and dedicated to their beliefs. They willingly sacrificed themselves for what they believed was a just cause, which would give them a great reward.

In the resurrection I don’t see it as unfair for them to be in the "2nd resurrection" as the 2nd resurrection gives them the chance to know whatever the truth is, and to receive the opportunity of eternal life . . .

Well, actually, nothing is so bad about it -- if it were true. But you are basing your beliefs upon a book that barely made it into the Catholic canon -- the canon we now have. And you are also staking your belief on the idea that there is ANY resurrection, let alone a "second" one. And third of all, the vast majority of Christian thought says there is only one resurrection. You get one shot at "eternal" life and that's that.

Personally I would tend to believe that VistaAdmin really is Santa Claus before I would believe in the Book of Rev scenario. Jesus Christ, as far as we know (if he indeed ever existed) never wrote down a single single sentence for posterity. Why should anyone believe that he, all of a sudden, wrote an entire book for us once he returned to some heavenly realm? Did he need to be debriefed by the Father first, or what? :-)

>>Note that Vista Badmin said he believes he is Sa...

2007-09-25T09:40:00.000+12:00

>>Note that Vista Badmin said he believes he is Santa Claus. We know that to be a lie. He is lying.<<

Vista Badmin may have said "he BELIEVES he is Santa Claus," but I said:"And I CONSIDER myself to be Santa Claus. Does that make me Santa?" If you don't understand the difference between believe and consider, then I know of no words to help you understand.

>>Furthermore, he made it clear that though he believes we should honor Herbert Armstrong, he calls Herbert Armstrong's ministers hirelings.<<

When and where did I say that people should honour HWA? I said that HWA has been reviled and blamed for almost all of the tragedies that have befallen former WCG members.

HWA never had any ministers! WCG's former ministers were either ordained by God or were planted in the church by Satan to disturb the peace of the flock. Sadly, events have demonstrated that the vast majority of them were ministers of Satan, who fed themselves while the flock died of spiritual and sometimes physical starvation.

The ministers who failed to speak out against the spiritual poison Joe Tkach was feeding the flock, or took a bribe, in the form of a financial package, to betrayed God's people are described by Jesus as hirelings.

All of those hirelings who are still alive, are either employed in one of the heretical churches in cog-land or have started their own church, with money as the primary motive.

Tom

Yes. Certainly Christians should not be liars. But...

2007-09-25T08:16:00.000+12:00

Yes. Certainly Christians should not be liars. But I do feel we need to be very careful about accusing anyone of not being a Christian, be it Vistaadmin or Mother Teresa.

However I do wonder why it is thought such a terrible thing to be in the second resurrection, especially if referring to someone who appears to have led a ‘good’ life.

What is so bad about the 2nd resurrection? For example the terrorists that caused the 9/11 destruction of thousands in New York must have been sincere, and dedicated to their beliefs. They willingly sacrificed themselves for what they believed was a just cause, which would give them a great reward.

In the resurrection I don’t see it as unfair for them to be in the ‘2nd resurrection’, as the 2nd resurrection gives them the chance to know whatever the truth is, and to receive the opportunity of eternal life, not only for them to change, but also for them to know what it is they are accepting.

Likewise, here am I, trying to live the way I believe I should – not killing or hating people – trying to love my neighbour and to love God, and keeping the laws of God as I understand them. Now if in reality I have got all this wrong, I fully would appreciate the second resurrection – for two reasons – firstly because then God is not rejecting me for doing what He considers wrong, but I didn’t realise was wrong, and secondly God is still honouring my free will, to accept or reject what it is that God actually offers.

After all, if I found that I was wrong, and the creator was actually an evil god, I would appreciate the option not to follow such a god – I would not be happy to find I had eternal life anyway, under an evil god.