Comments on Ambassador Watch: The host of heaven

I still maintain I hit a soft spot. Ok, we'll hang...

2007-03-18T09:41:00.000+12:00

I still maintain I hit a soft spot. Ok, we'll hangeth together. :-)

Steve K

BB..sounds good to me! We're all different and ne...

2007-03-18T09:18:00.000+12:00

BB..sounds good to me! We're all different and need to get over the idea that there is one way that the true people must squeeze everyone into before it's too late.

Steve...one hits a "sore" spot, not a "soft' spot, and you din't..hehe. Sorry the topic is boring though, it will change shortly I'm sure...hangeth in there.

Dennis said... yes Steve, only all your input has ...

2007-03-18T09:14:00.000+12:00

Dennis said...
yes Steve, only all your input has been stellar.....on this topic. I can see why you might be bored.

MY COMMENT: Ooooh! I hit a soft spot. :-)

Steve K

I like your wetsuit analogy, Dennis, although I've...

2007-03-18T09:04:00.000+12:00

I like your wetsuit analogy, Dennis, although I've used the caterpillar-butterfly one myself, or the Jonathan Livingston Seagull model.

One thing I would hate to have as my "reward", and that would be to become some sort of amorphous ghost that wanders around with all my ghostly relatives, the Brethren, and Herbert W. Armstrong for all eternity. That never struck me as being a nice "forever".

What good is life if you can't enjoy long motorcycle rides, kickass rock n roll, outrageous sex, and good ice cold beer? Of course, I realize that others might cite Mozart, cruising around in one's Rolls, and digging on Grey Poupon Mustard, and that's ok too, because that would be what speaks to their souls. A one size fits all reward would kind of suck.

BB

yes Steve, only all your input has been stellar......

2007-03-18T08:24:00.000+12:00

yes Steve, only all your input has been stellar.....on this topic. I can see why you might be bored.

So far, all of these points have been nothing shor...

2007-03-18T08:21:00.000+12:00

So far, all of these points have been nothing short of BORING!

Steve K

Hey Skeptic...I agree. I guess, in hindsite, my r...

2007-03-18T07:00:00.000+12:00

Hey Skeptic...I agree. I guess, in hindsite, my regret is the pain and "required behaviors" to keep the fear, guilt and shame in place that it has all evolved into....

Let's face it, folks, stone age man looked up in t...

2007-03-18T06:13:00.000+12:00

Let's face it, folks, stone age man looked up in the sky and imagined all sorts of things, trying to explain what they could not understand. Their imaginings became folklore, then became accepted wisdom of the ancients, then later still were written down and became religions and beliefs such as astrology. Later still, these ancient writings were looked upon as god-inspired. What an interesting species mankind is.

Religion? Astrology? Stone-age belief systems that adapted and persisted into the modern era? Buffalo Chips is all they mean to me.

Probably not much more comment on this phenomenon ...

2007-03-18T02:03:00.000+13:00

Probably not much more comment on this phenomenon but one final point. What is portrayed in scripture as predictive prophecy of Jesus life and death is for the most part not. It is Midrash where an author looks back into the past to give meaning to the present AND to flesh out a story about which he knows little or nothing about in fact.

If early Christians had actually remembered the passion as a series of recent events, why does the earliest gospel crucifixion account spin out the whole terse narrative from quotes cribbed without acknowledgement from Psalm 22? Why does 1 Peter have nothing more detailed than Isaiah 53 to flesh out his account of the sufferings of Jesus? Why does Matthew supplement Mark's version, not with historical tradition or eyewitness memory, but with more quotes, this time from Zechariah and the Wisdom of Solomon? Matthew's entire birth narrative story is flesh out from OT scripture that he misquotes and misapplies to make mean what they do not mean. These are not eyewitness accounts of anything real about what they know of Jesus. They do this precisely because they know precious litte about his birth, life and death circumstances. Astro-theology shows the story is one played out in the heavens and not literally on earth. Even the NT writers show this reality, now overlooked by Evangelicals and literalist in their attempts to explain Jesus with the OT which is mistaken for prophecy about him. It is not, never was and not intended to ever be that in it's original context. Even the great Isaiah 53 is a dirge about Israel and not Jesus in the future.

To Paul,I am very glad you were spoofing! Others,...

2007-03-17T13:29:00.000+13:00

To Paul,

I am very glad you were spoofing! Others, in the past, on other forums were most definitely NOT, when they cited Hovind!

Sometimes the thing about blogs is that we don't see one another's facial expressions, and can't tell whether someone is a joker, or is deadly serious. That's one reason why I post under the same moniker on all the ACOG dissident sites. People have gotten to know me over a period of five years, and most know if I'm kidding or serious.

BB

hey...at least this topic only produced one pity p...

2007-03-17T07:24:00.000+13:00

hey...at least this topic only produced one pity party for the past and actually contained good discussion! This has to be some kind of record! :)

Hey Paul..my common sense, that which some feel I ...

2007-03-17T06:10:00.000+13:00

Hey Paul..my common sense, that which some feel I don't have any of, told me you were kidding. However, I have just been through a round of fundy apologist crazy unbelievable taunting from a loon for Jesus that sounded just like that, so who knew!

BB
To me it's a given that there is more live "out there" as we are less than a bip on a very big screen of similar things in the whole universe. I'd love to live long enough to at least see fossils or something from Mars. I've told my boys that if they find it after I am gone to at least come out to my grave and say ," Dad, they found it"

On the other hand, maybe WE are the ET's the past and just forgot the story...I'm pretty sure thought I didn't come from a nice garden in the now marshes near Basra, Iraq.

For Pete's sake people, of course I was spoofing. ...

2007-03-17T05:47:00.000+13:00

For Pete's sake people, of course I was spoofing. I guess that means that there are people out there who would subscribe to such an idea.

I thought everyone would know that I was joking with this:

"Formulating complex answers for simple questions"

Kent Hovind provides me with hours of entertainment. Such imaginative thinking!

Paul

Interesting, Dennis. Also, I believe we would be ...

2007-03-17T05:08:00.000+13:00

Interesting, Dennis.

Also, I believe we would be very myopic, chauvinistic, and misguided if we arbitrarily decided that our earth is the only planet in all of the universe, capable of supporting life. The stars appear to have meaning only because they are viewed by us in their positions relative to earth. From any other solar system, they would appear totally differently.

The religions of the world seem to paint God as being earth-centric as well as Mesopotamian-centric.

BB

Probably not going to get many comments on this to...

2007-03-17T04:54:00.000+13:00

Probably not going to get many comments on this topic as few have ever even considered it and those that have either say "that 'theory' has been disproved long ago," or "Isn't it amazing how God has told the story of Jesus in the stars." Both concepts are false, but not , of course to those that promote them.

The detailed astro-theological nature of the Bible stories were known in great detail in the 1700's and many good writings come from that period. The problem was that at the same time, "the Great Awakening" of Christian fundamentalism was occuring and pretty much put an end to it in favor of the more literal story, which is what we have as Gospel truth to this day.

Only in the past few years have new researchers come to the fore with the astro-theological content of the Bible and the fact that the major religons of the past 5000 years tell the same story with their god-men, with only the names being changed.

David Ulansey broke the code of the iconography of Mithraism and the fact that Mithraism celebrated the slaying of the Bull, Taurus as the procession of the equinoxes took place and the switch over to Aries from 2000 BC to 1 AD took place. Of course these things take time but the procession of the eqinoxes was probably one of the secrets of the mystery religions, understood by few.

At any rate, from my perspective and that of those that show this connection between "as above , so below" in terms of a story played out in the heavens is what we have today as literalized Christianity. I think many Church Fathers past and present understand behind closed doors that the story was never meant to be taken literally and things are not really as they have been made to appear to be. The early church admitted to the fact that many previous pagan religions very much resembled Christian teachings (That's because they were getting the story from the same place, UP) but it was "diabolical mimickry" as in Satan anticipating Jesus and throwing these fake similars in the way of people to confuse them. This of course is BS,but that's how apologists work when you can't explain the obvious fact that your religion looks just as pagan as the pagans.

When we used to sing, "Tell me the Old Old Story..of unseen things above," we didn't realize what we were saying and just how old the story really is. It is the story of the miraculous birth of the godman, his temptation by a Devil who is darkness personified not to fulfill his destiny. The Godman overcomes the darkness and goes on to his resurrection followed by 12 disciples (the Zodiac), 12 sons, 12 Tribes, 12 Apostles, 12 Foundations, 12 gates, or 12 anythings. The Godman (the Sun) is the savior, the provider, the sustainer, the life giver who like the sun, can change water (rain) into wine(grapes). The Son/sun eventually is betrayed by one of the 12 (Scorpio-Judas-betrayer) and is crucified in the heavens at the equinox and then dies out in winter to be born again of Virgo the Virgin which brings him forth on Dec 25th when the Sun starts heading north to summer again. ....Old old story that points to all the lives of the godmen of human history long before Jesus had the same story told about him.

Of course, the stars aren't really put in any form whatsoever but what humans see is what they expect to see based on their observations of how cycles of life work. The stars don't make the stories, the humans make the stories out of what they need to see in the stars. I am not convinced that "God" wrote the story in the stars to teach humans as they don't even understand the one he is alleged to have written down in black and white and put in every motel....

The book I mentioned about astro-theology Starlore...

2007-03-17T04:39:00.000+13:00

The book I mentioned about astro-theology Starlore by William Olcott.

It covers the entire history of all the star groups and background.

Thanks, Dennis!

"Dennis. If your hatred of God hadn't blinded you,...

2007-03-17T00:18:00.000+13:00

"Dennis. If your hatred of God hadn't blinded you, you would easily see the answer to your Satan-inspired commentary; that is, that God super-cooled certain portions of the water shell-atmosphere (Dr. Kent Hovind, PhD) that covered the earth so that migrating Artic animals actually traveled in a cold weather pattern that migrated along with them! The truth is there to see, if you will only accept it."

From the top:
I don't hate God' I hate manipulative religious mythologies taken literally and misused by those who benefit greatly. Ideas have consequences and bad ideas..well you know. I just happen to feel closer to the God described in Conversations With God.

Actually I am going to assume you are spoofing me with your posting. However, I know people who would make such ridiculous claims and having recently been called a "High Priest of Marduk," you could be serious..:)

byker-bob said:All of the Levitical festivals rela...

2007-03-16T23:01:00.000+13:00

byker-bob said:
All of the Levitical festivals related to harvest, etc. are six months out of sync for folks down under! Was God Northern Hemisphere-centric?

Actually the Levitical festivals were land-of-Judah-centric. Travel about 1000 miles West or North and there are no longer three growing seasons. This doesn't mean that God only loved the land of Judah. God was doing something unique through the Israelites, so it made sense to set up that unique thing in their land. To take something given to Israel (like the various Sabbaths) and apply it to ourselves only creates confusion. God made it for them, NOT US. Does that mean God doesn't like us?

Imagine a parent with two kids. One kid is gifted at playing the piano and the other just likes playing in the front yard. If the parent takes the one kid to an expensive music school but doesn't do anything expensive for the other kid, does that make them a bad parent? No.

For those who don't know, Kent Hovind is the leadi...

2007-03-16T19:46:00.000+13:00

For those who don't know, Kent Hovind is the leading proponent of the "young earth" theory. He is currently serving a ten year sentence in federal prison for tax evasion.

One would certainly hope that AW bloggers could find better authorities to cite in support of their ideas and theories!

Kook alert! Kook, Kook, Kook.

BB

Paul, I don't understand your comments to Dennis. ...

2007-03-16T19:36:00.000+13:00

Paul, I don't understand your comments to Dennis. Where do you get a sense of "hatred for God" from Dennis' writings?

Basically, Dennis has a different concept from your own, and you are apparently intolerant. Let's get one thing straight: None of us "knows" God. We just know what other humans have taught us about the Supreme Being, be they patriarchs, "apostles", or whatever. So, although we can hate certain teachers' concepts of God, the reality is that we really can't actually hate God himself.

Now, if you want to discuss teachers' teachings, I'd have to say that I personally hate Herbert W. Armstrong's concept of God. That "god" curiously resembles Satan the devil, in my opinion. And, as they say in the commercials, your mileage may vary on that.

'baz

"Actually yes he was :) Not only that, but he was ...

2007-03-16T18:40:00.000+13:00

"Actually yes he was :) Not only that, but he was a god that had not thought out how polar bears, penquins, kangaroos and platypusses would make the trek to board the ark."

Dennis. If your hatred of God hadn't blinded you, you would easily see the answer to your Satan-inspired commentary; that is, that God super-cooled certain portions of the water shell-atmosphere (Dr. Kent Hovind, PhD) that covered the earth so that migrating Artic animals actually traveled in a cold weather pattern that migrated along with them! The truth is there to see, if you will only accept it.

Formulating complex answers for simple questions,

Paul

Actually Jorgheinz, your distant relative, Tycho d...

2007-03-16T17:45:00.000+13:00

Actually Jorgheinz, your distant relative, Tycho de Brahe (1546-1601) appears several times in Tarnas' book. He bore the impressive title "imperial mathematician and astrologer to the Holy Roman Emperor." His successor was Kepler. In 1572 he witnessed a supernova, thereby himself becoming a star (boom, boom!) He also earns a dense paragraph in the notes at the back of the book.

Wow!This is the best blog-readin' I've done in a l...

2007-03-16T17:14:00.000+13:00

Wow!
This is the best blog-readin' I've done in a long time!

I've got a rendition of the Jerry Garcia Band doing "That Lucky Old Sun" (kind of a gospel-type song) rolling around in my mind.

I'm a Scorpio, and have had a fondness for Orion since writing a paper on Orion in gradeschool. I remember going to an observatory and seeing that one of the fuzzy "stars" that made up Orion's sword was actually a nebula.

Ah, the things that the primitives/ancients saw and imagined!
And, having been to a few Garcia concerts, I'm convinced that the Kaneh Bosm must have helped.
Ya know, seeing God, and all ;-)

~Mel

There is a scripture that hints at star worshippin...

2007-03-16T15:01:00.000+13:00

There is a scripture that hints at star worshipping, not a message in the stars, early in the scripture. I believe it is one scripture that can also be used to show that David was quoting Moses in Psalm 8, the wording is almost exact if you were to put this scripture side by side with Dt. 4:15-20 and then verse 20.

What is man that thou art mindful of him? David asked as he gazed up unto the heavens. Paul uses that scripture to explain that man was to inherit all things. Revelation talks about inheriting all things as well.

But, Dt 4 also talks about not making the likenesses of the things you see. Verses 17-18 are almost word for word used by David in the reverse in Psalm 8. Verse 19 says: "And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the Lord they God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven." the NKJV uses; "As a heritage (inheritance)." to end the verse.

God intended that man inherit the universe from the beginning. Someone once asked if there were a scripture that proves that man was to inherit the universe. HWA thought so, but nothing is as clear as this scripture. So, the universe is not to be looked to to worship, and although there stars may have been used to tell a story by man about God. God never intended that it be worshipped according to the scripture.

Perhaps with all these myths of stars and constell...

2007-03-16T14:46:00.000+13:00

Perhaps with all these myths of stars and constellations that the religionists around the world embrace, consider that perhaps all the knowledge man has known and contributed to some religious figure(s) or religion comes from another source.

The PLAIN TRUTH may be that our ancestors traveled here long ago from a dying(sun/son/solar system.)???

This makes more sense than the answers that the religious community spouts forth. And I might add, the questions that are raised by their errant theories and theology!

Kscribe.