Comments on Ambassador Watch: Plagiarism, Flurry and Fraulein Kraus

Jared,Gamaliel and others, GENTILEMEN, For such ...

2007-02-03T10:02:00.000+13:00

Jared,Gamaliel and others,

GENTILEMEN,

For such we ALL are.

How could I, a barely littorate Japhethite,still chiselling Ruinic inscriptions,believe in the British Herbalite doctrine after your lengthy and eloquent
testy-moany.

I repent in SAKA-cloth and ASHERIM.

One is simply overwhelmed with the opulence of your supportive evidence.How could I ignore it?

Even with perhaps 5000 pages of material to call on,which could be presented to you,I am convinced that the sheer weight of your own amassed evidence would completely overshadow mine.It is hardly worthy of your august and lofty attention.

It is far better that a novitiate and neophyte such as myself, defer to your accumulated enlightenment and use it to guide my faltering spiritual steps.By the radiance emitted by your erudition and scholarship,and your docents excelsior approach,I can hardly become benighted.

It has been an absolute pleasure exchanging mutually heretical views.You are to be encouraged in your search for El Dorado.

I am convinced that we are pursuing a common goal of unbelief whilst treading disparate,divergent and intransigent pathways.

Indole Skatologically yours,

Jorgheinz

Jorgheinz, I'm happy for you. Enjoy your beliefs...

2007-02-01T19:24:00.000+13:00

Jorgheinz,

I'm happy for you. Enjoy your beliefs. You get the opportunity to have had the last word on this, at least for this round. I'm not going to make any further comment until the topic resurfaces in a fresh thread.

Gentlemen, The Bible states quite categorically t...

2007-02-01T13:55:00.001+13:00

Gentlemen,

The Bible states quite categorically that the 12 tribes of
Israel were

(1) To be sifted through the countries as wheat and not a grain would be lost.Therefore,this strongly suggests their DNA was to largely remain intact.

(2) To be brought back to Palestine...look at the various timings..one at the time of the return from Babylon, and also at the time of Christ's return ( you do seem to believe a little of the Bible, I see,but for what purpose is another matter.)

1948 is possibly another part of the prophetic fulfilment.

God is not a liar:he means what he says.

Tradition surrounding Britain may seem myth to some; have you ever investigated it? What did you find?
Nothing.Start looking again.

The upcoming tribulation will involve ALL of Jacob...it is the time of his trouble.The Bible is emphatic on this.

The Bible does not say "Jews" it says "Jacob"..don't try to mount your high "theological" horses with me.What you say does not wash and never will.

Isn't it funny how God allowed the 10 Tribes to be absorbed and lose their identity ,yet saw to it that Judah and associated Benjamin retained their very obvious genes.
Something wrong there gents..back to the drawing board for you.

God is not a distorter of his word though some on this Blog seem to be.

NOWHERE but NOWHERE in his Bible does God say that his 10 tribes were to be absorbed by Gentiles.This is man's idea, alone, and arrant rubbish and nonsense.

Your rant is reminiscent of that of Ralph Orr of Worldwide some years ago.

And in Gen 49 and elsewhere God describes the qualities,attributes of the 12 tribes.They were to be nations or parts of nations,not relic DNA in some insignificant tribe.

And you know the classical locations of those tribes,and yes there could be some revision but not a complete repudiation as you may suggest.

That's it.

jorgheinz

Gentlemen, The Bible states quite categorically t...

2007-02-01T13:55:00.000+13:00

Gentlemen, I feel honoured, and humbled,to be in ...

2007-02-01T12:36:00.000+13:00

Gentlemen,

I feel honoured, and humbled,to be in such august and outstanding company.

It is not everyday that one gets such an opportunity as this to tangle with what is/are one or two cynics, absolutely outstanding in their field.Congratulations,you keep the disgust fresh; you are to be commended on the high quality of your dubious logic.Let's face it,you have the best of the worst.

Keep it up, gents.You are a pleasure to deal with.

jorgheinz

aGentlemen, Why not, for a change, apply the same...

2007-02-01T09:57:00.000+13:00

aGentlemen,

Why not, for a change, apply the same derisory/critical yardsticks to your own beliefs ( if you have any) as you do to those of the
opposition?

Or is that asking too much of sceptics,cynics,rationalists such as yourselves?

Cynics and their like have no set belief systems yet they seem to have this morbid desire to investigate and comment upon other's belief systems.Is this not a little irrational?.It could be, perhaps,that you gentlemen have a belief in unbelief.Now, that's truly interesting.

Why show such a keen interest in things theological when you deny the very central mainstay of it's existence? Or am I incorrect in this assumption?

As "Gamaliel" has rightly remarked, 1000 professorial names would not necessarily constitute proof of any belief or tenet.

You want me to name one.Why should I do that?.As aforestated,even 1000 would not satisfy you.You are to be congratulated on your belief in unbelief, a highly irrational concept but one which I might understand.Gentlemen, I am enjoying this.Been this way before with family.A mixture of Jewish and Roman Catholic rellies produce wonderful opportunities for disagreement.And before that a LONG line of Lutheran biskops,predikanten and prosten.

There is nothing new under the sun.

You will believe,oops,unbelieve in what others believe and I will believe in what I believe.And neither will be able to convince the other.

So, a hearty good-day to you and may you continue the good work against HWAism.Hey, I am with you for much of the way BUT you have not yet convinced me of the invalidity of BIism for want of a better word.Would you believe DNA does back up what Herb said but it's just that youse guys have not yet caught on.

Seek and ye shall find.

I'd like to see him do this, too, YR. However, if...

2007-02-01T04:22:00.000+13:00

I'd like to see him do this, too, YR. However, if he can, it still would not constitute proof one way or the other about the soundness of the basic theory.

Remember, there were certifiable geniuses, with impeccable credentials, who fell for Herbert W. Armstrong's nifty little package of "truths". No doubt there wea something missing or wrong in these folks' lives, but it illustrates the fact that intelligence and beliefs are not necessarily universally interrelated.

Jorgheinz... you say "there are American scholars ...

2007-01-31T18:16:00.000+13:00

Jorgheinz... you say "there are American scholars with PhDs and not from third rate Bible Colleges,either, who believe BI theories."

Okay, so NAME ONE. That was my challenge. Name ONE. Your assurances are empty unless you can back up your claim with... a name. At least one. One who, as you say, doesn't hail from a third rate Bible College.

Take your time, I'm sure you have a lot to choose from. Feel free to post more than one if necessary, but at least ONE.

Is that too much to ask?

Yeah. Don't feel too badly, though. My mind was ...

2007-01-31T14:44:00.000+13:00

Yeah. Don't feel too badly, though.

My mind was closed to Charles Manson, the Unabomber, Jim Jones, David Koresh, Fidel Castro, the Rev. Sun Myung Moon, and L. Ron Hubbard as well.

Guess the old saying is true: One man's eschatology is another's scatology.

Gamaliel, Yes,indeed this topic is closed. Yes, ...

2007-01-31T10:34:00.000+13:00

Gamaliel,

Yes,indeed this topic is closed.

Yes, there are American scholars with PhDs and not from third rate Bible Colleges,either, who believe BI theories.And incidentally, I have stated that BI is not totally correct which little matter you seem to have ignored.Once again,selective reasoning on your part.

Yair Davidy, a plonker? Hardly.

It is no use talking to a closed mind such as yours.But you haven't read half the available evidence.

jorgheinz

That's it.

jorgheinz, You remind me of some people. You did...

2007-01-30T16:39:00.000+13:00

jorgheinz,

You remind me of some people. You didn't want me to debate you, which is why you suddenly shuffled me under the skirts of Yair Davidy, who is apparently your sole and primary source for all things BI. I consider that to display precisely as much intelligence as sending me a copy of the "United States and British Commonwealth in Prophecy". So you switched gurus, and chose one who provides a bibliography, as opposed to plagiarizing!

Now, I would have been impressed if you had been working from your own bibliography, which you had carefully compiled after years of deep study, during which you had also attempted to disprove British Israelism. In other words, it would be nice, indeed, if you had developed your own primary sources.

I've visited Yair's site. I've listened to a radio interview featuring Yair. I was not impressed.

Yair Davidy? I've read some of his stuff and, well...

2007-01-30T16:22:00.000+13:00

Yair Davidy? I've read some of his stuff and, well, I wouldn't bother investing time in refuting it any more than in refuting flat-earthism. Life is too short to run around barking at every passing car. Davidy is out of touch, ill-informed, dogmatic, ignorant and (based on personal correspondence I've had with the guy at his initiative) a complete and total plonker.

Jorgheinz, you need to find a more credible authority than that. A bit of a puzzler because there are no credible authorities who defend BI that I know of. BUT, here's the challenge:

Find and cite ONE university teacher (lecturer, professor) at an accredited institution who upholds BIism. ONE. Now there's a nice little research task. ONE. Not some 19th century guy, he or she has to be living, though I'd consider an emeritus position as tenable. Preferably in a related discipline (history, anthropology, theology... )

ONE, Jorgheinz. Just one. Name ONE.

Time to put up or...

Gamaliel, You are being very selective. You prod...

2007-01-30T14:57:00.000+13:00

Gamaliel,

You are being very selective.

You produce only a few facts,some of which I agree with, would you believe.

But when you and your ilk are pressed for intimate detail on the 10 tribes out of Palestine you slither,you wriggle,you dodge the issue.You have nothing but platitudes.

You recite the tired old rubbish that we have heard for 25 years.

A myth....NO. But let it be that way to you.

And incidentally, I don't need to rely on HWAs take on this matter.

Bye bye.

Jorgheinz

I don't have time for your nonsense. Yair Davidy ...

2007-01-30T13:54:00.000+13:00

I don't have time for your nonsense. Yair Davidy appears to be rather kookish. Didn't he once fraudulently claim to be a rabbi? I regard him in about the same way as I do David Koresh. What is his real name, anyway?

1) When Jereboam began his apostasy into the Canaanite religion, many of the Israelites from the north were outraged, and emigrated to Judah in the south. During the time of King Asa, there was an open invitation to observant ones in the northern kindom to move to Jerusalem.

2) Sargon claimed in his memoires that he only captured, and relocated 27,263 Israelites, many of whom later returned to their ancestral homes. Concurrently with this, numerous "colonists" from other captured nations were moved into Northern Israel, to mix with, dilute, and intermarry with the remaining Israelites. (Ever hear of Samaritans?) Again, there was emigration to Judah.

3) At the end of their captivity, various of the 27,000 relocated ones also moved back to Israel and Judah. Others were simply absorbed into the meltingpots of the lands of their relocation, and had their genes seriously diluted much like a pedigreed dog mixing with mongrel mutts, to the point where the Israelite genes are unrecognizeable as such today.

We know, therefore from the Bible and history that a portion of the lost ten tribes were relocated, another portion intermingled with the people sent to colonize Israel, and many voluntarily moved to Judah where the Yahwistic religion had not been supplanted by the Canaanite religion. The ones who emigrated to Judah may have intermarried amongst the Jews, but otherwise maintained their culture and heritage. Josephus indicates that all of the tribes were present and accounted for in Jerusalem during his lifetime.

Also, these were semitic people, not blond haired, blue eyed Nordic or Aryan people. The Torah (and entire Bible for that matter) is Israel-centric, not USA or Euro-Centric.

All of these facts are readily available in the Bible, history, and various websites. But, hey, believe what you wish. The lost ten tribes are a myth. And, most historians recognize our disputed empire as the Persian Empire, not the Medo-Persian Empire.

That's it for me. You see, I have a life, a very good one as a matter of fact. If someone else has the time to deal with your theories and demagoguery, let them have a go at you.

To Gamaliel, Let us modify that request for the a...

2007-01-30T12:52:00.000+13:00

To Gamaliel,

Let us modify that request for the alternative descent of the "Lost" Ten Tribes of Israel.

Let's get very specific.

I want a line by line REBUTTAL of the TOTALITY of YAIR DAVIDY'S works with attached BIBLIOGRAPHY,AND the alternative version,line by line (which can be checked) with BIBLIOGRAPHY.

Yair has gone into great depth.Let us see if the detractors can offer a credible alternative on EVERY POINT that Yair Davidy raises.

Fools and dickheads utter all their mind( which is very little).
They don't like being challenged.

Now let us see if THE implied scholarship really exists that will counter Yair Davidy, or whether we are dealing with woolly thinkers,dreamers and hollow men.

God has left clues as to the location of the 10 tribes today.Let us see if the detractors really have the intellectual nous not only to PICK UP ON THIS but to have the balls to come out from their boltholes and present their data and evidence against both the Bible and physical archaeology.

I await your 1000 PAGE reply with interest.

jorgheinz

A CHALLENGE TO GAMALIEL.... if he is person enoug...

2007-01-30T11:54:00.000+13:00

A CHALLENGE TO GAMALIEL....

if he is person enough to accept it.

Gamaliel,

You downput so-called Armstrongism...so do I funnily enough.

But he was not entirely wrong.

Seeing you are so sure that the Western tribes of Europe are not, at least in part,descended from Israel,show me where the tribes of Israel are located today around the world.

Name the country,the present day name of the people, the name of the Israeli tribe from which they are descended.

The Bible says they are spread around the world and after say 2700 years I would expect at least a 100 page outline,full of names.

Give me your alternative version or be shown up for the fraud that you really are.

My versions would be based on people like Yair Davidy.He is pretty detailed.Counter Yair Davidy's writings with ones of equal length and detail.

And as I have said before,don't obfuscate the space with names of obscure mountain tribes.

Israel was to be a FORCE in the world..so there's a clue.

Send your detailed reply to Gavin so he can establish a link..remember at least 100 pages..really, it should be 1000 pages but 100 pages will suffice.

I await your extremely detailed reply with alacrity.

jorgheinz

Gamaliel, I am trying to cover nothing up. I hav...

2007-01-30T10:56:00.000+13:00

Gamaliel,

I am trying to cover nothing up.

I have no inferiority complex, I can assure you, neither a superiority one.

But what I do rail against is blatant distortion of obvious physical facts.

And I don't find fault in your paucity of words.Some people are naturally reserved.You rubbish the philosophy of Armstrongism, yet you are not person enough to offer an acceptable substitute.But when you make assertions I expect you to back them up with proof, not the ramblings of woolly headed "philosophers".You show me a website which is very obviously the habitat of free-thinkers,sceptics, cynics,philosophers etc.There is nothing wrong with that,necessarily.But so often their works are great wafflings and billowings of the mind, often designed to downput the God of Heaven.I don't need this website...I have plenty of ramblings to read from family archives...those of Lutheran and Calvinist ministers who DID believe in God and their writings are EQUALLY outrageous.So, you see I am not partial to one side or the other.

You put forth the consideration that the "Medo-Persian Empire" did not exist,mischievously or otherwise.It seems you don't believe the archaeology presented. I suppose you will now tell me that Parthia did not exist,despite hard archaelogical evidence.

To say there is NO GOD is a copout.Paul said there is ample evidence around.

If you are not an atheist,please CORERECT me.But atheists have nothing to hang their hats on.Nothing at all.They virtually blaspheme the name of the Almighty by denying his existence.Just imagine when the ALMIGHTY GIVES ALL ATHEISTS their greatest wish.To live in a world without God.There are scriptures to cover that but you probably wouldn't agree with them so we won't go there.

Gamaliel, what force or agency keeps the molecules in your body in a state of harmony? What say that agency decided to give you a practical demonstration, on your own body of what happens when he ceases to be the Sustainer of Life.That is actually described in the Bible, believe it or not.

One thing I have noticed that men tend to worship their own opinions rather than that of God.

You would probably deny the British-American descent from ancient Israel.Everyone rages against it but no one, yet no one on this or many other blogs has sat down or composed a list of the countries where the tribes of Israel reside today.That is because they have no substitute.As I have said before,bring forth your proofs of an alternative line of descent for the Ten Tribes.And no one,well maybe one, has been game enough. Tell me where Reuben and his outposts reside,where Manasseh and his outposts reside, where Ephraim and his outposts reside.I dare you to show me.And remember,there will be tribal or racial affinities.

And if you look very,very carefully you will find that DNA DOES back up BI theory.Oh,yes sirree.But why should I produce this sort of evidence to you who wouldn't accept it.If you don't accept archaelogy and science,what the hell will you accept.And yet, funnily enough you would go along, quite happily with the ramblings of so-called philosophers without one skerrick of proof.

AMAZING!!

jorgheinz

Your dimestore psychology and snide putdowns speak...

2007-01-27T14:28:00.000+13:00

Your dimestore psychology and snide putdowns speak volumes about your own self-image and sense of security, especially considering my own sparseness of verbiage. Your arrogance is overwhelming. There is no such thing as a superiority complex, it's just an inferiority complex turned inside out. So, what precisely are you trying to cover up?

Gamaliel, I have another word for you. You don'...

2007-01-27T11:39:00.000+13:00

Gamaliel,

I have another word for you.

You don't have the inbred intelligence to conduct a rational argument. You are gutless,letting others form your opinions for you, and ARE led around like a prize bull with a ring in its nose

Methinks you were conned by HWA and are still trying to get over the fact you were conned.However, I stand to be corrected on this as minds like yours are hard to read you know.

Bitterness clouds the thinking,you know,old chap.

You have not responded to any of my questions,except to utter some sort of primeval native grunt, so to speak.Maybe I can believe in evolution, after all.

That's my lot. If you can utter anything intelligent, post it on the blog, otherwise don't insult people with your mindless twittery.

Roger, over and out.

Jorgheinz

Gamaliel, If the reference to that website on Inf...

2007-01-27T11:24:00.000+13:00

Gamaliel,

If the reference to that website on Infidels is the most intelligent remark you can make I pity you.

Gamaliel, you would not know an infidel if you tripped over one.My forbears were dealing to them in the Holy Land in the 1200s.These knights were called Crusaders, just in case you haven't heard the name.

You sure have some emotional and mental problems there, buddy.

Your take on life and religion sure is ROCK SOLID.

jorgheinz

http://www.infidels.org/library/magazines/tsr/2000...

2007-01-26T18:44:00.000+13:00

http://www.infidels.org/library/magazines/tsr/2000/2/002what.html

Gamaliel, Never mind about the others..you have g...

2007-01-26T14:31:00.000+13:00

Gamaliel,

Never mind about the others..you have got me.They( the others) will probably answer in due course.

You deserve a medal for ignorance.

You choose to ignore, by design I suspect, the matter of the Medo-Persian Empire.You say that you have read widely but surely not wisely.Your reading would have taken you to the world of the Achaemenids.Tell me they did not exist; tell me that the multiplicity of satrapies did not exist.Tell me they are myth.Hundreds of papers,scores of books have been written on the matter.Most by bona-fide scholars who can back up their writings by fieldwork.Wakey,wakey,Gamaliel.

For historical enlightenment, may I suggest you obtain the DVD edition of the 4 part TV series that retraces the steps of Alexander the Great on his almost worldwide expedition.Write to the American/British history professor who compiled this series.And tell him that one of his sources, Flavius Arrianus never lived.Tell him he is an ignoramus.He might question who is the ignoramus.

Pull your head out of the sand,old boy.And,no, I don't follow Armstrongism.I read what the Bible says and much of it is backed by rock-solid archaeology.Next you will be wanting to tell me Jerusalem doesn't exist.

Gamaliel, we have your type in the Antipodes who swear that the Egyptians never visited Australia,DESPITE archaeological proof.You cannot mistake ANUBIS for anything else,hardly.Doubters in NZ say that pygmies never inhabited that country despite skeletons of such having been found.Pygmies were also in the UK,Sri Lanka, Australia etc.

May I suggest you change your brand of medication;the current prescription is not doing much for your rationale.

Cheers.

jorgheinz

I'm an avid reader, reading very widely. I let ev...

2007-01-26T13:56:00.000+13:00

I'm an avid reader, reading very widely. I let evidence and facts lead me to my conclusions, not
Armstrongism. I could easily recommend some reading materials for you, but, like most Armstrongites, you'll either refuse to read them, or you'll read them and continue believing your Armstrongism. Consequently, you're not worth my time. I posted what I posted for the greater audience, not for you specifically.

Hi Gamaliel, Do you think I rely on Grannies' tak...

2007-01-26T10:57:00.000+13:00

Hi Gamaliel,

Do you think I rely on Grannies' take of the identity of the woman that sits on seven hills.?That's just a diversion to test the mental fabric of people.

If I could resurrect,a colonel, a forbear who marched into the Netherlands in the year of 1572 with his troops, he would have no hesitation in telling you who the woman of the apocalyse was.He was a witness to the religious atrocities committed in those times.

Gamaliel, isn't it funny that all of the tomes in the local libraries,written by Ph.D's, professors of history and other scholars with doctorates ALL embrace at least the Persian and the Roman Empires.Are you telling me that your erudition is greater than the sum of theirs?And remember,these men have been on digs and have seen at first hand the archaeology of these civilisations.

You have to call these civilisations something..they did exist,you know.Archaeology proves that a million times over.If you don't believe hard, physical evidence, what do you believe? Mind you,Christ did speak about this attitude.But that's another matter.

Are you telling me that the amassed weight of archaeological data( for your sake let's call it that) is WRONG?

What planet do you inhabit or are you just stirring with one tongue in cheek? If so, I have WILLINGLY taken your bait.Nothing like a good old stoush,hey what, old chap.

Persepolis,Susa and other sites formed part of the Persian Empire.And they will even show you Daniel's tomb...pardon, supposed tomb.Tell me they don't exist and are a fabrication?Dear me, I would feel sorry for you.

GET REAL,GAMALIEL.Look at Europe.They have a REAL problem.Europe has an ability to deal very effectively with people seen as different.What do you think the Reformation,The Spanish Inquisition and Nazi Regime were all about? And Europe is most definitely mentioned in the Bible.(If you believe Revelation, Europe is in the text.If you don't believe Revelation there will be people around one day to remind that it does exist.)

Perhaps you need to catch up on some extra reading.If you have done so,the content has obviously not filtered through. The leopard has not changed its spots and already is starting to bare its teeth,just a little, in certain matters.And don't mistake that for a yawn,either.

Gamaliel,what do you really believe,or where have you been all these years.This earth is under threat in more ways than one:open your eyes.

The land of Israel is under threat.Do you think she could defend herself against sustained attack from superior forces? She has many nations that want her destroyed.Deny the reality of this.And by the way, this is all mentioned in the Good Book that you cast aspersions on or have some sort of mental block over.

As the adage goes, let the unwary and soporific go their way for they shall be wakened one day with an almighty thump into the future world of today.

Whether you like it or not, the events portrayed in Revelation are an inevitability,whether by the means outlined or by some other earthly agency.

jorgheinz

Well, Yorgie, I'm glad to know that Grannie's opin...

2007-01-26T05:08:00.000+13:00

Well, Yorgie, I'm glad to know that Grannie's opinions constitute some sort of "proof" in your mind!

Really, I hope nobody is seriously concerned about Armstrong's Apocalypse scenario. There has been great debate both prior to and after canonization as to whether Revelation even belongs in the canon.

Also, many historians have pointed out that the so-called Medo-Persian empire never existed. This would throw out any timeline based on the wee beasties. Plus the Jews (oracle keepers) seem to think we've got about 250 more years until absolute year 6,000. This, in addition to the bogus Scandinavian (as opposed to semitic) Israelites!

Any way you look at it, Armstrongites and those who informed them have a lot of questions to answer about their blatant speculations.