A collection of
and Comments from survivors of Herbert W. Armstrong,
Garner Ted Armstrong, The Worldwide Church of God and it's
Articles Pertaining To Herbert W. Armstrong, Garner Ted Armstrong and The Worldwide Church of God
PT Home Page
Primary PT Sub-Pages
Email To The Editor
After looking over your website I have to comment on just
a couple of issues knowing that you may not even read this
but still I have to try to e heard. First I understand the
hurt that comes with feeling deceived and let down by
someone of authority that you trusted but why is it you
feel the need to waite till H.W.A. died before you opend a
website that instead of heals wounds only makes them
deeper, what your site is doing by dragging down a man
that is dead and gone is the most cowardly form of mental
and emotional terrorism. I also noticed that you brought
up the incest that committed and would like to know are
you sinless ? have you begged to be forgiven ?
did God forgive you and cast your sins away never to be
rememberd ? was H.W.A not a man lust like you with
imperfect human nature ? IF I may please bring only one
more thing to your attention,,as a Christian you and
everyone else should have known that no timeing of
prophecy is exact, and you were always told by H.W.A. ( as
well as the first apostles ) to prove all things, so why
do you continually bring up the fact that so many dates
were wrong ? do you not know that Mr. Armstrongs
comission was to put the church of God back on track
concerning the law, holydays, the gospel of Christ, and
other lost truths ? What I see happening with ALL
you sites is that you tear him down over human error NOT
over Gods law or the many other restored truths. In
closeing with all due respect to you and whatever
misguided organization you are aligned with IF the only
accusations you can bring against Mr. Armstrong are the
ones concerning HUMAN miscalculations and HUMAN sin then
maybe just maybe you wernt ever really converted, IF you
were ever really converted by God's way of love you would
never have become so overcome by hate which is of Satan .
Thanks for writing. It's been quite a while since we had a letter from someone like you. I'd like to take the time to respond to each point in your letter, so I will reproduce each piece of it below. (Since you didn't see fit to sign your letter, I will refer to you as "JimBob".)
After looking over your website I have to comment on just a couple of issues knowing that you may not even read this but still I have to try to e heard. First I understand the hurt that comes with feeling deceived and let down by someone of authority that you trusted but why is it you feel the need to waite till H.W.A. died before you opend a website that instead of heals wounds only makes them deeper,
I'm sure you think this is a logical question. Why, indeed, did we not open our website while Herbert was still alive? How old are you, JimBob? Were you even alive when Herbert was alive? He died in 1986. If you were around in 1986, which web sites did you visit? Or are you too young to realize that the internet was not available then? The internet did not become available to the public until the mid 90s, and this site debuted in 1997.
There was, however, a newsletter that began publication in 1975, called Ambassador Report. You can read it, in its entirety, on this website.
what your site is doing by dragging down a man that is dead and gone is the most cowardly form of mental and emotional terrorism.
Emotional and mental terrorism. Really? Who are the victims? You? No one is forced to visit this site. We don't ask for money, nor do we accept it. We have turned down advertisers at least twice. And speaking of cowardly, why didn't you sign your email? You didn't even have to give your real name (even though it was on your email header).
I also noticed that you brought up the incest that committed and would like to know are you sinless ?
Yes, actually, I am, because there is no such thing as sin. "Sin" is a religious fiction invented to subject people to mental and emotional terrorism (where have I heard that phrase before?); in any case, I never fucked my daughter.
have you begged to be forgiven ? did God forgive you and cast your sins away never to be rememberd ?
He FUCKED HIS DAUGHTER, JimBob! People go to prison for that. Not even the laws of "carnal" men forgive such a thing.
was H.W.A not a man lust like you with imperfect human nature ?
Nothing like me. I never fucked my daughter. Never even considered doing such a thing.
IF I may please bring only one more thing to your attention,,as a Christian
You're talking to the wrong guy, JimBob. I'm not a Christian.
you and everyone else should have known that no timeing of prophecy is exact, and you were always told by H.W.A. ( as well as the first apostles ) to prove all things,
You weren't around before 1972, were you? You're looking at history that happened before you were born and you simply don't know what you're talking about. If you have access to any old Plain Truth magazines or Good News magazines or co-worker letters from the fifties or sixties (and you can find them on the internet), then I challenge you to read some of those prophecy articles. Herbert Armstrong, Herman Hoeh, Rod Meredith, and others repeatedly hammered it out in their articles that THIS PROPHECY IS SURE! THIS IS STRAIGHT FROM THE SHOULDER! THIS IS GOD SPEAKING!
Yes, we were told to prove all things. And what we were told to prove is that Herbert was the end-time apostle, the Worldwide was the only TRUE church of god, and we were commanded to OBEY! Obey, not THINK. That's how it was, JimBob. I was there, and you almost certainly were not. Anyone who doubted the word from Herbert or his minions was rebellious, and another thing they taught us was that REBELLION IS THE SAME AS WITCHCRAFT.
Maybe whatever splinter you belong to hasn't advised you of that little tidbit yet.
so why do you continually bring up the fact that so many dates were wrong ?
So you admit that they were wrong. Good, that's a start. Why do we remind people of dates long past that were declared as SURE but turned out not to be? Because those who are milking the remnants of the survivors are STILL SETTING DATES. It's important for people to know that all the dates are wrong, that none of this fantasy will ever take place. If you learn nothing else in your life, learn that, and do it before your life is wasted.
do you not know that Mr. Armstrongs comission was to put the church of God back on track concerning the law, holydays, the gospel of Christ, and other lost truths ?
Do YOU not know, JimBob, that Herbert said his commission was to WARN THE WORLD of the COMING CATASTROPHE that was SURE TO BEFALL THE WORLD no later than January 7, 1972? He didn't start putting the "church back on the track" until 1978, when he utterly disowned his son Garner Ted. But you wouldn't know that, JimBob, because you probably weren't even born yet, and none of your false leaders have told you that.
What I see happening with ALL you sites is that you tear him down over human error NOT over Gods law or the many other restored truths.
Can't speak for other websites, but some of them believe the bible is the word of god. This one doesn't. We don't "tear him down" over human weakness, but for deliberately building a personal empire on the suffering of slaves. Sounds like you could use a key to remove some shackles yourself.
In closeing with all due respect to you and whatever misguided organization you are aligned with
No organization here. Just some lucky survivors trying to warn other poor fools that there are predators out there.
IF the only accusations you can bring against Mr. Armstrong are the ones concerning HUMAN miscalculations and HUMAN sin then maybe just maybe you wernt ever really converted
JimBob, you have no idea how many survivors will laugh out loud at that statement. "Never converted"! God, how many times did we hear that one? How many times did we SAY it, hoping the friend or relative who "left the church" would not be held responsible and come up in the third resurrection! I know what you're trying to say, but if you intend it as an insult or a warning, it simply sounds like a joke. The only "conversion" that anyone in WCG ever experienced was a conversion from sanity to subjection, from free will to slavery. If anyone held on to any thread of self determination, free thought, or a concept of personal rights, he or she was CRUSHED!. I think they've done the same thing to you.
IF you were ever really converted by God's way of love you would never have become so overcome by hate which is of Satan .
News flash, JimBob -- Satan doesn't exist.
Listen, kid, I know you mean well. I know it hurts you to see your beliefs attacked. But you need to educate yourself before trying to defend it. The bible is such a hodge-podge of fiction mixed with fact that no one can make any coherent sense of it, and anyone who tries to organize their life by it is fighting a losing battle. If it really were the word of god then there would only be one religion springing from it, instead of the thousands that exist today. Try to think logically, and if doubts creep into your mind, explore them. Your sanity is trying to get your attention. Listen to it.
title-to-time I google my name to see what the world is saying
about my writing. When I saw my friend, Richard Markland’s
name, I gave the article more than a cursory glance. The article
was prefaced with a note saying, “The following email was
received on October 22, 2007.”
came this statement, “The attachment from Leslie Turvey of
LifeLines contained the following (editorial commentary imbedded
rest of the email was a copy of my Life
Lines column titled “Miriam and Richard, copyrighted January 7, 2007. That doesn’t bother me,
nor do the comments. However, the seventh paragraph read, “[D]id Richard Markland, in fact, rape an eight-year-old girl? Only three
people know for sure: Richard, the little girl, and God. The
rest of us can believe what we want: our thinking makes no
difference,” This was followed by the statement and question,
Please tell your readers this
Mr. Turvey has never published anything anonymously.
There is no need for me to keep my name hidden, as I have
nothing to hide.
Leslie A Turvey
A servant of the only true and living God
was a really bad experience for me, I hated every minute of it,
and it destroyed my family in many ways. I have a screwed up
relationship with my parents since they joined from the very
first minute. That hasn't changed my father is a blind believer
and even though he's left the congregation a couple of years
ago, he's still a very religious man.
sent him the link to the website about the WCG Kids so that
maybe he could understand how I felt. But he flipped out, and
since then I haven't talked to him or my mother. He's more or
less isolated himself into his own little world.
well, I've gotten by all these years without it just fine. I
guess that's already worth gold, and I enjoy every minute of my
life all the more.
sorry your dad reacted as he did. Brainwashing is a
terrible thing. Let us know if you want to relate any
turn people into zombies.
Religious Zombie cannot think for himself.
Religious Zombie will pursue his goal without pain or emotion.
Religious Zombie will believe that he is loving when he is
Religious Zombie will walk in circles repeating the same things over
and over and over...
Religious Zombie cannot be cured, the disease is simply to hard to
Religious Zombie cannot survive on his own, he only operates in a
Religious Zombie looses family and friends.
Religious Zombie looses touch with society.
Religious Zombie defies common sense, even if you hit him over the
head with it.
Religious Zombie believes he's in touch with god.
Religious Zombie lives in a colony that has one leader who believes
he's the only one that can save him.
Religious Zombie shows no tolerance to others.
Religious Zombie wants to turn everybody into a Zombie.
Religious Zombie will pursue his goals no matter how mad they are.
Religious Zombie never questions his leader.
Religious Zombie never mingles with others, other then to prey on them
and turn them into Zombies.
Religious Zombie will do anything for his leader.
Religious Zombie thinks the world will come to an end, and he will be
the only survivor.
Religious Zombie will never be held accountable for his actions.
Religious Zombie will set all hell loose when he shows up.
Religious Zombie survives on barely nothing, giving up everything, and
leaving nothing but destruction in his path.
Religious Zombie can smell a non zombie from miles away.
Religious Zombie will smother his victim with all kinds of fantasies
about how great it is to be a Zombie.
Religious Victim will then turn into a Zombie and the cycle starts all
Religious Zombie spends his life in the dark thinking he's found
Religious Zombie thinks he's spiritually alive, even if he's
Religious Zombie believes that he's the only one that isn't blind, and
has received enlightenment.
Religious Zombie cannot make any decision on his own.
Religious Zombie that realizes he's a zombie is always cast out to
face the real world. Wow, we welcome you back to the real world.
Religious Zombie will turn lies into truth, and truth into lies.
Religious Zombie sounds so sure, sincere, and convincing that you
almost feel like cuddling up with him.
Religious Zombie always hides his true nature.
Religious Zombie believes he has all the answers to your problems.
Religious Zombie is free only to think like a Religious Zombie.
Religious Zombie has an answer for EVERYTHING.
Religious Zombie has been changing the dates for the end of the world
for thousands of years.
Religious Zombie can never reach his goal, he's never good enough,
he's a Zombie after all.
Religious Zombie can only marry another Religious Zombie.
Religious Zombie never goes to a doctor for help.
Religious Zombie wants to believe.
Religious Zombie will throw money into a bottomless pit.
Religious Zombie will feel guilty for having wet dreams.
Religious Zombie will feel guilty for masturbation, god first, me
Religious Zombie will stop wearing make-up because it's vain, no
wonder they are ugly to the rest of us.
list is never ending, so if you have more to add please do, it's good
for the morale.
are excellent, Ray. And ever so true.
Where do I start, my mother is a slave to the CHURCH OF GOD which is a splinter group of WWCG. She has ex-communicated her family and I fear for her mental health. I love her very much however i am very frustrated by her intolerance of other cultures and religions. It is Christmas and this is a very painful time for me growing up in the WWCG. I WOULD LIKE TO COMMUNICATE WITH WHO EVER YOU ARE AND EXPRESS CONCERNS I HAVE WITH THIS CULT. I am obsessed with trying to understand my mother and her belief system.
are free to communicate with us by email, or a telephone call can be
arranged. You also might want to try the Painful Truth Forum.
Do you know of a site that lists false prophecies that Garner made?
I’m not aware of any. Ted didn’t have much imagination, just parroted his father’s prophecies.
I have an appendix in my new book dealing with false prophecies of the cults. My book is on the Rapture.
The book teaches a Pre-Trib Rapt, BUT
I debunk the doctrine of imminence and show there will be dozens of signs before the Rapt/Trib begins.
here is a list of the men I refute who teach imminence
Arguments for Imminence
J. Dwight Pentecost
these teach imminence but I use quotes by them to prove they don't hold to imminence
here is a list of proph teachers I quote to prove there are signs even though they say there are no signs
RAPTURE WARNING SIGNS
Arguments for Signs of
Webber & Noah Hutchings
I also list several reformers and early church fathers who taught there were signs
Thank you. We will.
Jan 2, 2009
just wanted to take a moment to thank you for your web site. It
has indeed helped me heal, and also reflect on my experiences with WCG. It
breaks my heart to read some of the horror stories, and to learn of
the emotional scars that so many people bear to this day. I
was born into "the church", so of course it wasn't a choice
for me. As all children, reality is what is presented to you,
and you accept it and adapt. I was lucky in the fact that my
parents loved each other, so my sisters and I weren't subjected to a
lot of the emotional abuse that some of the others were. My
scars have been from the physical consequences that I have endured as
a result of the teachings of "the church".
I was born with congenital hip dysplasia. But because I was "blessed" by a minister when I was young, my parents assumed that I was immune to any physical ailment. My complaints of pain must have been my way of getting special attention from my parents, right? I was taken to a chiropractor at a very early age, who was of course a church member. So of course he had devine powers to quickly fix anything that god's protective angles would have missed at my "blessing". Over the years he "corrected" my spine many, many times without bothering to wonder why such a little girl had so many problems. When I was 13 my hip problems started to become serious, and my parents couldn't ignore the truth anymore, I needed to see a real doctor. The x-ray showed that not only did I have significant hip dysplasia, but some of the vertebrae in my back were partially fused together.... So all those chiropractic "treatments" I received were actually putting my spine out of alignment and damaging my joints. Because I was 13, the only treatment available to me would be surgery. Major surgery. My parents decided to wait a year to give god the chance to heal me. Several anointing cloths and actual anointing from ministers later, I had my first hip surgery. I was 14. I was terrified. My mother was so devastated that she couldn't even come to the hospital. I'm sure the guilt is still eating her. Three days following the surgery I was so weak that I needed a blood transfusion. But we all kept going to church. It must have been god's will, right? I must have been an awful child to have to learn such a harsh lesson. Or was it because I had such strong faith that I could handle it and teach other people lessons? Or maybe my parents needed to learn something at my expense? 8 years later I needed another surgery. Then when I was 24 I found out that I had received tainted blood from my first surgery. So miss goodie two shoes ended up with hepatitis C. That's usually a disease reserved for bad people, right? I must be a horrible person in god's eyes.
So I am now 34 years old. I have endured 3 major pelvis restructuring operations, and I have been living with liver disease for 20 years. I am in physical pain every single day of my life. So what have I learned from this? Many things. Firstly, go see a doctor when something hurts! Hip dysplasia is something that can be treated if it is caught when the child is young, that's why newborns are checked for it! I have also made some decisions and realizations:
I will see the glass as half full.
I will make up my own mind
I will not be a bitter person about my experiences, I will be a SMARTER person
I am incredibly lucky to live in Canada where medical care is free- I'm sure I would be a lot worse off without it!
I will not go to any church
Organised religion is corrupt and arrogant
I should really get myself a fire resistant bathing suit for my trip to the lake of fire ;)
I will take my children to as many doctors as needed to make sure they are healthy- but I will not follow their advise blindly. Doctors are human, and can make mistakes, and as in my previous decision, I will be a smarter person
I will laugh about as many of my experiences with the WCG as I can because it helps me heal, and because so many things were just down right ridiculous
I am the only one of my friends who knows how to darn socks(we were so poor that my socks were darned many times)
I will remind myself every day how lucky I am, because despite of all my physical ailments, I am married to a man who loves me for who I am, regardless of my physical state, and somehow I managed to have two children who are healthy and happy, and will have the best christmases and birthday parties that I can afford.
It's not my fault
Despite everything, I am of what I consider myself to be of sound mind, and shockingly normal
It's human nature to want to belong to a special group and to believe you have a special connection with a god so you can have power over other people, and go to an elite afterlife. Because of this I have decided not to be angry with my parents; I believe they truly believed they were doing the best for us by blindly following this "church"
I will celebrate christmas every year, but not to praise jesus. I will celebrate it every year, because I think that it's good to spend time with family and friends in the middle of the darkest part of the year when we can all use a little cheering up. Also I think christmas trees are really pretty
Anyway, if you decide to publish my story on your website, I hope it helps just one person see their glass as half full. It seems that no matter how bad off I feel some days, there is always someone who has it worse.
Thank you so much for writing. Your story is incredible.
you helped me escape armstrong.
You're welcome! Tell me more. How did we help?
Ahh, the usual.
I had been in Armstrongism since I was very young, but I never knew what kind of person Herbert Armstrong was. The info on your site helped me to see the truth; things that were purposefully hidden from members.
I fiddled around with reading Painful Truth and Exit Support Network. I didn't believe the stories. You know how it goes, I was a believer in Armstrong - you guys were just bitter. One day it clicked. There were so many things going through my mind at the time, but not the least of them was that Ron Weinland is a bona fide false prophet. Then it dawned on me that Ron and Herbert were identical. I realized that there is no way I can apply one label to Ron Weinland and not apply the same standard to Herbert Armstrong. They are both false and both must be rejected.
That's my story in a super nutshell.
how that works. The actions of Weinland cracked the ice under
your feet. For me it was the actions of Joe Tkach, Sr.
Congratulations on your open mind!
If you have anything you would like to
submit to this site,
index.htm">Back to Painful Truth menu