Email To The Editor, Page 110

04/02/2010

I dam sure don't see your name on this site... are you ashamed of it?

You do nothing but pile coals on your head,,, oh ye of no fear!

Cabinary.

Cabinary,

I'm happy to give you my name. It's Allen C. Dexter, Ambassador graduate, class of 1960, twenty plus year co-worker, member and employee of the WWCG. I was guest editor of the blog last month. My name and email address headed the blog for the full month. That information, plus my home address, is also on the final contact page of my book, “Believing the Unbelievable” also on this site.

I see our site seems to have riled you a bit. It has that effect on some people. That's why the main editor (that post has changed to different individuals over time) doesn't make his full identity known. You see, some are not content to just symbolically heap coals of fire on the editor. They make outright threats of harm and death. It seems their "God" needs help to defend himself against those of us who would dare to question him and those such individuals are convinced represent him. I believe the common name for them is "terrorist" or "jihadist."

Now, at 75, I'm not too concerned about you or anyone else coming "gunning" for me, if what I write is really all that blasphemous and important in your eyes and you really think you are your deity's anointed avenger.

Maybe you'd like to tell us what exactly got your knickers in such a painful bunch. What is it we're doing or saying that you find so objectionable? If we've printed something inaccurate or untrue, we'd like to know so we can retract it. Of course, you'll have to prove your points first.

Most of what we publish is simply the opinions and personal experiences of the editor and others who contribute to the site. Our purpose is to promote understanding and record historical facts for the benefit of our readers so that history is a little less likely to be repeated in some salvaged lives.

Best regards,

Allen C. Dexter

04/02/2010

Dear PT Ed,

I found your site several years ago, and have spent a great deal of time reading the vast amount of information you have provided for us former culties. I was lucky/insightful enough to remove myself from the ranks in '94, mainly because I found doing 'normal' high school activities like smoking and drinking were way more entertaining than the weekly diatribes against the evil splitters. In hindsight, the overwhelmingly negative and hypocritical attitude from quite a lot of the congregation may have also helped me out the door sooner rather than later. I consider myself to be lucky enough to not have suffered many of the things other former members endured with the exception of the emotional abuse I think is common to us all.

After more than 15 years of alternatively ignoring and obsessing over the details of my youth growing up in the 'church' thankfully the only side effect I now have is the uncontrollable penchant to get extremely vitriolic when writing academic papers on early Christianity, which isn't too frowned upon by my leftie classicist peers! Thank you for all your work, as it has been immensely helpful to me and I'm sure to countless others.

G.M.

Gordi,

There is a proper place in life for hatred. Hatred of that which is wrong is a powerful and valuable tool. But when Armstrong perverted hatred in order to perpetuate what we all should have known was a corrupt system, it became clear that he was the prototypical face of opportunism.

Still after twenty-four years after his death, these lockstep ideological conformist, Herbie's proxies, rant on with their mindless parroting of his cliches. They have reached a level of absurdity that is difficult to match. Their vaporings are a cesspool of charlatanism.

Armstrong brainwashed his janissaries with fascism, he made them easy to lead, easy to program, and easy to enslave. Your smoking and drinking was much more beneficial than attending church and bargaining with those mindless devils. It allowed you to grow up like any other "normal" kid.

James,
PT-Editor

04/01/2010

Hi; had another look at 'the painful truth' site.

I LOVE IT !

Partly because I grew up in Ireland in the 1950s and see the parallels between WCG and Irish Catholicism.

John R. Schroeder tried to suck me in to the WCG in 1980 when I was living in London. WCG was quite significant in England at the time and the magazine was displayed outside shops. I saw the contradictions and didn't take the bait.

The worst tragedies were experienced by young children whose parents had been sucked in. Amazing how so much money could flow on such a fraudulent/delusional basis.

Are you going to update the site with more recent comments?

Respectfully,

-Pete.

Yes the site is updated as need be.

Sometimes several times a week.

James,
PT-Editor

04/01/2010

My name does not really matter

I was born in the "church" in Montreal. I can't seem to find any links or even acknowledgment that this sickness of the mind spread here.

I was told at an early age I was shit. my mom struggled to raise five kids on her own, leaving a pedophile father. Yet I was told to never talk to the elders sons. My whole family was shit. I have a story to tell.

The pastor at the time was Mr. Picard.

His oldest, I heard commented suicide. I cried.

S.H.

Go ahead Sara and put your story together. I will post it. I have currently put a book together from one former church kid into book form. I plan to take the cream of the crop and do the same to the top five stories by former church kids.

Don't forget to read the faq page before beginning on your story.

Talk to you soon,

James,
PT-Editor

03/29/2010

LOTS OF MEMORIES BROUGHT BACK I WASNT SURE IF I SHOULD LAUGH CRY OR BOTH! MAKES ME FEEL BETTER THAT IM NOT THE ONLY ONE WITH THE SAME FEELINGS! I WAS IN WCG FOR 11 LONG YRS! FROM 1983-1995! IVE ATTEMPTED TO GO TO DIFFERENT DENOMITATIONS BUT THEY JUS DONT WORK FOR ME! I DONT BELIEVE BELIEVING IN GOD MEANS YOU HAVE TO GO TO A CHURCH OR A HALL TO BE CLOSE TO HIM! I DO PRAY AN I KNOW HE DOES HIS JOB! MY STEPDAD USED TO ABUSE ME AN MY MOTHER IF WE STEPPED OUTTA LINE-OR IF HE THOUGHT WE DID HE EVEN TRIED FEELING ME UP MORE THAN ONCE YET HE GOT AWAY WITH IT-IT WAS LIKE THE MINISTERS TOLD HIM YOUR ALLOWED JUS DONT GET CAUGHT! I STILL HAVE FRIENDS THAT HAVE JOINED THE UNITED VERSION OF IT AN I WONDER SOMEDAYS HOW IT IS THEY CANT SEE THE DAMAGE THAT IS CAUSED-BUT I DARE NOT SAY ANYTHING OR IM SURE THERED BE WAR ON MY HANDS! I DO CELEBRATE THE "WOURLDLY HOLIDAYS" BUT ITS HARD SOMETIMES! CUZ AS A CHILD GROWING UP I WAS BANISHED AT ALL COST FROM ANYTHING DEALING WITH THEM! WHENEVER IM ASKED IF I EVER WENT TO CHURCH I ANSWER YES, THEYD ASK WHERE AN NORMALLY NO ONE HAS HEARD OF IT TIL I SAY IT WAS A CULT! OR THEYD ASK ARE U JEWISH OR JEHOVAH?! THERES SOMETHINGS STATED THAT I DONT REMEMBER OR NEVER DEALT WITH BUT NONE OF WHICH SHOCKS ME!

I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR THE THOUGHT AN EFFORT PUT INTO THIS WEB SITE!

THANK YOU!

"CRIS"

(AGE 29- FEMALE)

Goddamn, screaming in CAPS just like Herbie! And you did not break it up into paragraphs!

Got a story to tell? Feel free to vent! Write your story out and mail it back. Remember to spell check it.

James,
PT-Editor

03/15/2010

your wild e coyote cartoon should NOT be on your web site. very vulgar. it's hypocritical!!!!!

JH.

Explain.

James,
PT-Editor

03/15/2010

Your Wild E Coyote cartoon contains explicit language that is UNGODLY. My minister was here at the time and it completely overwhelmed him to think that a website that is supposed to expose evil in the WWCG would think it funny to display such profanity. Are you all atheists? Do you actually believe in GOD? Or are you doing this to just poke fun and slander dead people? I think you should stop attacking the dead!!!

JH.

My Reply:

"a website that is supposed to expose evil in the WWCG...."
Yes, and we are adults also with a sense of humor. We can handle it.

Are you all atheists?
All the editors here are agnostic or have believe in a deity.

Do you actually believe in GOD?
Which God? There are many other "holy" books through out the world. Does it have to be a God of a "holy" book or can we chose to believe that God never wrote a book and remains hidden?

Or are you doing this to just poke fun and slander dead people?
We have contempt for the armstrongs and all those who are of his
ilk.

I think you should stop attacking the dead!!!
See, I knew you had your mind made up before you wrote.
When you have suffered more for a season or two, write back. You may be ready to progress to a more open minded position as a mature adult.

James,
PT-Editor

03/16/2010

First, I understand your agnostic views. OK? Let me tell you a few things about myself.
For one, I've lived life - for 40 years of nothing but turmoil and pain! I've been associated with every religious sham in this world. I've conversed with almost every Adventist Church (7th day, Abrahamic Faith, Christadelphians, JW's, etc.) there is! All of them have their problems. Their minds are set to "truth", so they call it. I've even been a Mormon priest (one of the most dumbest things I've done in my life!). My Church is considered an offshoot of Armstrong, but we do not accept every wind of doctrine he taught (i.e. born again only at the resurrection, the 3rd tithe, Jesus as God, etc.). However, we respect Armstrong as a man who restored CERTAIN THINGS! He wasn't the only one who did this. We do not WORSHIP him. We worship Theou (the Godhead)!!! We accept the Septuagint OT and the Greek NT MORE than the KJV, because it - and all modern versions - seem to try to convey the views of the translators. The Hebrew OT is very corrupted because the Jewish scribes were untrustworthy. Just look at the Pharisees of Jesus' day!! I'm very careful what I believe. I trust NO ONE! If it doesn't square with the Holy Spirit (Theos) and common sense, I reject it altogether!! The problem with agnosticism is that agnostics do not and probably will not understand WHO God is and WHAT He says - what His will is! Therefore, since you think it's clean "fun" to degrade the dead, maybe I'll write about you on our website and poke a little "fun" at agnosticism! Sound fair?

JH.

Consider this when you speak of truth.
“Relativity and quantum mechanics have demonstrated clearly that what you find out with instruments is true relative only to the instrument you’re using and where that instrument is located in space-time.

So there is no vantage point from which real reality can be seen. We’re all looking from the point of view of our own reality tunnel. When we begin to realize that we are all looking from the point of view of our own reality tunnels, we find it is much easier to understand where other people are coming from.

Then those who don’t have the same reality tunnel as us don’t seem ignorant; deliberately perverse; lying or hypnotized by some mad ideology. They just have a different reality tunnel and every reality tunnel might tell us something interesting about our world.... if we are willing to listen.”

-Robert Anton Wilson. Author (Thanks Al !)

You had wrote: "For one, I've lived life - for 40 years of nothing but turmoil and pain! I've been associated with every religious sham in this world."

Why continue on with religion?
What you don't understand at this point of life you are in is the mistakes you have made. You keep trying the same thing (relationship with a church and God) and expecting different results. This is the definition of insanity is it not?

You wrote: "I'm very careful what I believe. I trust NO ONE!"
Well that is all good as to theory but if truth is to be known and the Holy Spirit is leading you, you should be able to separate facts from fiction. However as you hop from church to church you seem to have a poor record as to your decision making process. Why is that?

James,
PT-Editor

JH never wrote back.

2/05/2010

Greetings;

I first fell under the spell of Garner Ted Armstrong in the summer of 1970. I was a new Christian but no church discipled me. Since I had no training in discernment, sorting through claims and counter-claims, I swallowed everything he said uncritically.

The reason I mention this is because I eventually joined a cult church that followed a man who taught similar doctrines to the Armstrongs. I stayed with that pseudo-church for more than fifteen years. Why? Pride kept me there. I figured I was lead by God to the only church with ALL the truth.
Our minister was an "annointed teacher" and couldn't be questioned.

I left in 1987 because the minister's assistant and certain members said I had a lack of faith because my poor sight wasn't healed. In fact, they often criticized me of having unconfessed sin or ancestral sin that I had to purge through begging Christ for forgiveness. I became so irate by the uncharitible treatment of those deluded folks and their basement church that I left. I wish I had stormed out of there after the first meeting. I wasted thousands of dollars and years of my life following their lying prophet.

I'm currently writing and editing a book called How I Was Razed, a memoir of my years under the spell of that fakeer who dared call himself the seventh member of the Godhead. I hope to have the book in print in 2010. People need to know how these bogus preachers steal members from genuine churches and fill their heads with nonsense. My hope is that I can disabuse these folks of their delusions, comfort fellow sufferers of cultic abuses, and perhaps earn back the money I foolishly gave to that so-called church.

Sincerely,

Bruce Atchison - author of Deliverance from Jericho (Six Years in a Blind
School) and When a Man Loves a Rabbit ((Learning and Living With Bunnies).

Bruce,

Thanks for sharing this with the Painful Truth.

It seems there are a lot of self proclaimed prophets out there in the world. Just in the splits of Armstrong-ism there are dozens.

I don't really have a problem with someone calling themselves a prophet as long as I can stone them when the prophecies fail. I think these prophets should approach their congregation with a contract requiring them to pick up stones if and when they fail prophetically. This would be keeping with Deuteronomy13:1-5.

James,
PT-Editor

1/24/2010

I was just looking over your site. To see herb and garners mug's again with that smirk just reaffirms what I now know...those two wrecked countless lives and destroyed multiple generations of lives, and laughed the whole time!

I was fortunate to be kick out in the late 90's. I always felt something wasn't right with that "church". And to see it named a cult just felt right and long overdue. My road to recovery began a few years back, but now that I found your site and another one I submitted a story about SEP too. I find it therapeutic to write it down. Going through some of the "hate mail" just irritates me. To read about how "wonderful and blessed" it was, makes me sick. I have found that it was the deacons or ministers kids who feel this way. Those of us in the trench's, knew of another life. one filled with poverty, fear, and such an awkwardness in the real world. I spent many years with guilt, alcohol, and drugs. Twenty years later, it occurred to me that although I am over the damage of the cult, it still lingers. That is why your site and others like it are important. I feel that your site is an invaluable tool for recovery that so many seek.

I grew up in the cult and lived all the hell that was herbies own personal world. To see that his ideas and pluralistic crap is still pedaled on the mass's, is amazing. I know some people who jumped into the next cult after the original cult broke up. It's so sad. They came out and said the whole sha-bang was a scam, and still the blind and mindless follow. Until researching and learning about the real WWCG, that concept was just plain ignorant. But if someone is brainwashed all their lives, its kind of a rut they can't see out of, which is why it is important for you guys, and others like you to have a site where those who were hurt, and others who will be hurt, can learn the real plain truth. (ha-ha nice pun huh?)

Keep up the good work,

Tracy Allen
Kansas
ex-communicated and liberated 1989

Tracy,

Thank you for writing the Painful Truth. Glad to see you got an early release!

I, having repeatedly witnessed the cults inflict more death and destruction than Genghis Khan's hordes, and warrants that I have every right to refer to them as an iconoclastic sectarian whores.

Armstrong and his minions used social engineering to steal reality from our minds, and replace that reality with a surreal form of utopia packaged as a fictional “World Tomorrow.” This engineering served his purpose of gaining wealth and life long financial security. This is the Painful Truth that the blinded optimist does not see!

To admit to ones-self, that you have been made a fool of by a high school dropout who robbed you, and deceived you out of tens of thousands of dollars is a real shock at first. All those years scrapping for your family and for what? To be given the “gift stick” shoved up your keister? If I wanted to live lower than dirt, that should have been my prerogative. Instead, the cult used what is now called undue influence, using fear as the motivator toward submission.

Since those days that I left the cult, I've read, studied and talked with so many about mind control, that I hardly bat an eyelid when someone tells me that they will never give the cult up. However, I will never stop trying to educate those who still wear the veil before their eyes. The magnitude of the cult's misrepresentations should disgust anyone who has an even moderate education. And let me tell you, I'd peg the odds at about ten to one that the cults will continue to promote deceitful ideologies such as British Israel-ism, the EU taking over and murdering all of America, the all too late coming of a messiah, even after the current economic and political crisis is long forgotten.

Cultist never learn until maximum damage has been inflicted upon them. Never.

For those who can be truthful with themselves, I will use every avenue possible to address the legitimate anger, fear, and alienation of people who have been mobilized by the cults because they saw no other hope or options for change in their lives. Those Armstrong cults, with their craftiness and inhumane fear driven prophecies, will entirely control a families income quicker than you can double-check the spelling of "chlamydobacteriaceae.”

But seriously, questions need to be asked and answered. This takes a mind that has been forced to evaluate truth in order to survive intact. At what point does the membership reach this point? Perhaps the next date we can add will be after the great disappointment of 2012?

We will indeed see a mass exit from the Armstrong cult's when these time worn prophecies, the same ones that old jowls used for decades, fail once again. And they always fail.

As to hate mail, it is usually sent by those who are unable to admit or are still in denial about the whole wretched affair involving the cult! They are proud to wear the badge of a fool. So be it!

Best to you,

James,
PT-Editor

01/24/2010

James,

My own ideas do correspond with Dexter's, but there is a twist.

Thank you again Allen for contacting the Painful Truth with your story. I realize that it is not just your story, but the mental anquish that one feels when you have been deceived, your mind poisoned, and your pockets emptied. Armstrong's empire was built for one reason. To feed his insatiable narcissistic appetite.

I noticed Bill Gordon's obit in the United News of UCG, I'm sure more than a few people will be interested to hear that. I was in his church area for a couple of years till he was transferred. My experiences with him were not horrible like it was for some and anything I know is mostly hearsay. He had a military background and was hardcore. He did not seem to have any empathy and had a "you made your bed, you lie in it" attitude.

I heard stories where he denied to a family in need of food, not sure what the circumstances were though. I also heard he has spies checking on people. He did not have spokesman's club. Bible studies were Q and A only. He did not read the pastor generals reports or pass on much from headquarters. He like many of the ministers would tell you what you were going to do to serve, no ifs, ands or buts. I was told I would be the piano player and when I said I really don't know how to play much, he said, "you'll learn." I guess I should be thankful for that because I did learn.

I met with him once for some counseling at his home, his wife Helen was there and getting ready to go out but she just lingered around listening until I left. I actually "came out" to him, he had 1 scripture for me and I was to read a book and write a synopsis and submit it to him. It was basically about not having a father figure. I was surprised that he did not remove me from the song leader, prayer and piano player list much less disfellowship me.

When I told a friend who left the church after being under him for years, he couldn't believe I told him. Unfortunately my friend committed suicide on his birthday last year. I'm sure he deeply affected many lives. You might be able to get some others to speak up. I knew Diane, the woman who wrote a letter to the site then asked that her name be removed, didn't know what was happening in her family though. I heard he was fired from the ministry but officially it says retired. He made a secret visit back to his church area to meet with some specific members shortly after he was transferred, I knew people present but don't know what it was about, maybe just a visit.

When I finally did leave the church in the early 90s no one from the ministry ever contacted me about why or what happened. I have no affiliations with any organized religion and probably never will. I appreciate sites like yours which have helped me recover. I would rather not use my name if you use any of this.

Thank you for the death notice. Although I never knew Gordon personally, I do know the type of personality you are speaking of. So do others who have posted their stories about this man.

Email To The Editor(Page 110)

Email To The Editor
(Page 110)