First and foremost, I want to thank you for your website, which I stumbled upon this morning as I was perusing various websites pertaining to the old WCG. Sadly enough, I too am a former WCG cultist. Unfortunately, I raised my only child, a son, within the confines of this spirit crushing, law oriented organization. Partly as a result of this, we are estranged today. Although I don't have
time this morning, I'll be back to the site, and may find that I have something to offer to those who are still healing. I'm also certain that I'll find the same for myself there.
But, alas, I stray from the purpose of this email! I would quickly add, however, that I did finally extricate myself from this so-called church in 1992, immediately prior to its' meltdown under the Tkach's, and am slowly finding my own personal and very spiritual path to my Creator without the 'help' of organized churches, indoctrinated church members or any of their teachings, and most certainly not
the human written and most assuredly not God ordained Bible! Now finally, the purpose of my email. I read with great interest the article 'Childhood Lost' by Dale Brown, thinking while reading it that the writing style sounded strangely familiar. I quickly sent off two emails to Dale, both of which bounced back immediately, to inquire as to
his identity. After failing to get email through, I went back to your website, determined to try to learn more about this writer and quickly found what I was looking for in one of his responses to another readers' email.
Dale Brown was indeed the husband of one of my closest and dearest friends of many years, Melissa. After I left the church, shortly before Melissa did, I lost touch with her; our paths diverged at that point in time. However, two years ago I was told that she
had died of cancer but have been unable to locate Dale in order to learn what happened. Would you please either forward this if you have a current working email address for him, or publish this email on your site with the hope that he'll find it one day and contact me. And yes, please give him my email address if he asks for it! Until later then, I thank you again for such a wonderful website and the good it has to offer us exitists. We fled for our lives, and it's my constant hope that life
is what each of us has found.
I will publish this with the hopes that Dale will see this. I will also add your request to the 411 page.
I found it interesting that you were looking for Dale this week. So was one of my assistant editors. We have turned his story into a book format here on the PT. It is one of the best stories I have read here.
I dam sure don't see your name on this site... are you ashamed of it?
do nothing but pile coals on your head,,, oh ye of no fear!
I'm happy to give you my name. It's Allen C. Dexter, Ambassador graduate, class of 1960, twenty plus year co-worker, member and
employee of the WWCG. I was guest editor of the blog last month. My
name and email address headed the blog for the full month. That
information, plus my home address, is also on the final contact page
of my book, “Believing the Unbelievable” also on this site.
see our site seems to have riled you a bit. It has that effect on
some people. That's why the main editor (that post has changed to
different individuals over time) doesn't make his full identity
known. You see, some are not content to just symbolically heap coals
of fire on the editor. They make outright threats of harm and death.
It seems their "God" needs help to defend himself against
those of us who would dare to question him and those such individuals
are convinced represent him. I believe the common name for them is
"terrorist" or "jihadist."
at 75, I'm not too concerned about you or anyone else coming
"gunning" for me, if what I write is really all that
blasphemous and important in your eyes and you really think you are
your deity's anointed avenger.
you'd like to tell us what exactly got your knickers in such a
painful bunch. What is it we're doing or saying that you find so
objectionable? If we've printed something inaccurate or untrue, we'd
like to know so we can retract it. Of course, you'll have to prove
your points first.
of what we publish is simply the opinions and personal experiences of
the editor and others who contribute to the site. Our purpose is to
promote understanding and record historical facts for the benefit of
our readers so that history is a little less likely to be repeated in
some salvaged lives.
I found your site several years ago, and have spent a great deal of time reading the vast amount of information you have
provided for us former culties. I was lucky/insightful enough to
remove myself from the ranks in '94, mainly because I found doing
'normal' high school activities like smoking and drinking were way
more entertaining than the weekly diatribes against the evil
splitters. In hindsight, the overwhelmingly negative and hypocritical
attitude from quite a lot of the congregation may have also helped me
out the door sooner rather than later. I consider myself to be lucky
enough to not have suffered many of the things other former members
endured with the exception of the emotional abuse I think is common
to us all.
more than 15 years of alternatively ignoring and obsessing over the
details of my youth growing up in the 'church' thankfully the only
side effect I now have is the uncontrollable penchant to get
extremely vitriolic when writing academic papers on early
Christianity, which isn't too frowned upon by my leftie classicist
peers! Thank you for all your work, as it has been immensely helpful
to me and I'm sure to countless others. G.M.
is a proper place in life for hatred. Hatred of that which is wrong
is a powerful and valuable tool. But when Armstrong perverted hatred
in order to perpetuate what we all should have known was a corrupt
system, it became clear that he was the prototypical face of
after twenty-four years after his death, these lockstep ideological
conformist, Herbie's proxies, rant on with their mindless parroting
of his cliches. They have reached a level of absurdity that is
difficult to match. Their vaporings are a cesspool of charlatanism.
brainwashed his janissaries with fascism, he made them easy to lead,
easy to program, and easy to enslave. Your smoking and drinking was
much more beneficial than attending church and bargaining with those
mindless devils. It allowed you to grow up like any other "normal"
had another look at 'the painful truth' site.
LOVE IT !
because I grew up in Ireland in the 1950s and see the parallels
between WCG and Irish Catholicism.
R. Schroeder tried to suck me in to the WCG in 1980 when I was living
in London. WCG was quite significant in England at the time and the
magazine was displayed outside shops. I saw the contradictions and
didn't take the bait.
worst tragedies were experienced by young children whose parents had
been sucked in. Amazing how so much money could flow on such a
you going to update the site with more recent comments?
the site is updated as need be.
several times a week.
name does not really matter
was born in the "church" in Montreal. I can't seem to find
any links or even acknowledgment that this sickness of the mind
was told at an early age I was shit. my mom struggled to raise five
kids on her own, leaving a pedophile father. Yet I was told to never
talk to the elders sons. My whole family was shit. I have a story to
pastor at the time was Mr. Picard.
oldest, I heard commented suicide. I cried.
ahead Sara and put your story together. I will post it. I have
currently put a book together from one former church kid into
book form. I plan to take the cream of the crop and do the same
to the top five stories by former church kids.
to read the faq page before beginning on your story.
OF MEMORIES BROUGHT BACK I WASNT SURE IF I SHOULD LAUGH CRY OR BOTH!
MAKES ME FEEL BETTER THAT IM NOT THE ONLY ONE WITH THE SAME FEELINGS!
I WAS IN WCG FOR 11 LONG YRS! FROM 1983-1995! IVE ATTEMPTED TO GO TO
DIFFERENT DENOMITATIONS BUT THEY JUS DONT WORK FOR ME! I DONT BELIEVE
BELIEVING IN GOD MEANS YOU HAVE TO GO TO A CHURCH OR A HALL TO BE
CLOSE TO HIM! I DO PRAY AN I KNOW HE DOES HIS JOB! MY STEPDAD USED TO
ABUSE ME AN MY MOTHER IF WE STEPPED OUTTA LINE-OR IF HE THOUGHT WE
DID HE EVEN TRIED FEELING ME UP MORE THAN ONCE YET HE GOT AWAY WITH
IT-IT WAS LIKE THE MINISTERS TOLD HIM YOUR ALLOWED JUS DONT GET
CAUGHT! I STILL HAVE FRIENDS THAT HAVE JOINED THE UNITED VERSION OF
IT AN I WONDER SOMEDAYS HOW IT IS THEY CANT SEE THE DAMAGE THAT IS
CAUSED-BUT I DARE NOT SAY ANYTHING OR IM SURE THERED BE WAR ON MY
HANDS! I DO CELEBRATE THE "WOURLDLY HOLIDAYS" BUT ITS HARD
SOMETIMES! CUZ AS A CHILD GROWING UP I WAS BANISHED AT ALL COST FROM
ANYTHING DEALING WITH THEM! WHENEVER IM ASKED IF I EVER WENT TO
CHURCH I ANSWER YES, THEYD ASK WHERE AN NORMALLY NO ONE HAS HEARD OF
IT TIL I SAY IT WAS A CULT! OR THEYD ASK ARE U JEWISH OR JEHOVAH?!
THERES SOMETHINGS STATED THAT I DONT REMEMBER OR NEVER DEALT WITH BUT
NONE OF WHICH SHOCKS ME!
WANT TO THANK YOU FOR THE THOUGHT AN EFFORT PUT INTO THIS WEB SITE!
screaming in CAPS just like Herbie! And you did not break it up
into paragraphs! Got
a story to tell? Feel free to vent! Write your story out and mail
it back. Remember to spell check it.
wild e coyote cartoon should NOT be on your web site. very vulgar.
Your Wild E Coyote cartoon contains explicit language that is UNGODLY.
My minister was here at the time and it completely overwhelmed him to
think that a website that is supposed to expose evil in the WWCG would
think it funny to display such profanity. Are you all atheists? Do you
actually believe in GOD? Or are you doing this to just poke fun and
slander dead people? I think you should stop attacking the dead!!!
"a website that is supposed to expose evil in the WWCG...." Yes, and we
are adults also with a sense of humor. We can handle it.
you all atheists? All the editors here are agnostic or have believe
in a deity.
Do you actually believe in GOD? Which God? There
are many other "holy" books through out the world. Does it have to
be a God of a "holy" book or can we chose to believe that God never
wrote a book and remains hidden?
Or are you doing this to just
poke fun and slander dead people? We have contempt for the armstrongs
and all those who are of his ilk.
I think you should stop attacking the dead!!! See, I knew you had your mind made up before you wrote. When you have suffered more for a season or two, write
back. You may be ready to progress to a more open minded position as a mature adult.
I understand your agnostic views. OK? Let me tell you a few things
about myself. For one, I've lived life - for 40 years of nothing
but turmoil and pain! I've been associated with every religious sham
in this world. I've conversed with almost every Adventist Church (7th
day, Abrahamic Faith, Christadelphians, JW's, etc.) there is! All of
them have their problems. Their minds are set to "truth",
so they call it. I've even been a Mormon priest (one of the most
dumbest things I've done in my life!). My Church is considered an
offshoot of Armstrong, but we do not accept every wind of doctrine he
taught (i.e. born again only at the resurrection, the 3rd tithe,
Jesus as God, etc.). However, we respect Armstrong as a man who
restored CERTAIN THINGS! He wasn't the only one who did this. We do
not WORSHIP him. We worship Theou (the Godhead)!!! We accept the
Septuagint OT and the Greek NT MORE than the KJV, because it - and
all modern versions - seem to try to convey the views of the
translators. The Hebrew OT is very corrupted because the Jewish
scribes were untrustworthy. Just look at the Pharisees of Jesus'
day!! I'm very careful what I believe. I trust NO ONE! If it doesn't
square with the Holy Spirit (Theos) and common sense, I reject it
altogether!! The problem with agnosticism is that agnostics do not
and probably will not understand WHO God is and WHAT He says - what
His will is! Therefore, since you think it's clean "fun" to
degrade the dead, maybe I'll write about you on our website and poke
a little "fun" at agnosticism! Sound fair?
this when you speak of truth. “Relativity and quantum mechanics
have demonstrated clearly that what you find out with instruments
is true relative only to the instrument you’re using and where
that instrument is located in space-time.
is no vantage point from which real reality can be seen. We’re
all looking from the point of view of our own reality tunnel. When
we begin to realize that we are all looking from the point of view
of our own reality tunnels, we find it is much easier to understand
where other people are coming from.
Then those who don’t
have the same reality tunnel as us don’t seem ignorant;
deliberately perverse; lying or hypnotized by some mad ideology.
They just have a different reality tunnel and every reality
tunnel might tell us something interesting about our world.... if
we are willing to listen.”
-Robert Anton Wilson. Author (Thanks Al !)
had wrote: "For one, I've lived life - for 40 years of nothing
but turmoil and pain! I've been associated with every religious
sham in this world."
Why continue on with
religion? What you don't understand at this point of life you are
in is the mistakes you have made. You keep trying the same thing
(relationship with a church and God) and expecting different
results. This is the definition of insanity is it not?
You wrote: "I'm very careful what I believe. I trust NO
ONE!" Well that is all good as to theory but if truth is to
be known and the Holy Spirit is leading you, you should be able
to separate facts from fiction. However as you hop from church to
church you seem to have a poor record as to your decision making
process. Why is that?
JH never wrote back.
I first fell under the spell of Garner Ted Armstrong
in the summer of 1970. I was a new Christian but no church discipled
me. Since I had no training in discernment, sorting through claims
and counter-claims, I swallowed everything he said uncritically.
reason I mention this is because I eventually joined a cult church that followed
a man who taught similar doctrines to the Armstrongs. I stayed with
that pseudo-church for more than fifteen years. Why? Pride kept me there.
I figured I was lead by God to the only church with ALL the truth. Our
minister was an "annointed teacher" and couldn't be questioned.
left in 1987 because the minister's assistant and certain members said I had
a lack of faith because my poor sight wasn't healed. In fact, they often
criticized me of having unconfessed sin or ancestral sin that I had to purge
through begging Christ for forgiveness. I became so irate by the uncharitible
treatment of those deluded folks and their basement church that I
left. I wish I had stormed out of there after the first meeting. I wasted
thousands of dollars and years of my life following their lying prophet.
currently writing and editing a book called How I Was Razed, a memoir
of my years under the spell of that fakeer who dared call himself the
seventh member of the Godhead. I hope to have the book in print in
2010. People need to know how these bogus preachers steal members
from genuine churches and fill their heads with nonsense. My hope is
that I can disabuse these folks of their delusions, comfort fellow
sufferers of cultic abuses, and perhaps earn back the money I
foolishly gave to that so-called church.
Atchison - author of Deliverance from Jericho (Six Years in a Blind School)
and When a Man Loves a Rabbit ((Learning and Living With Bunnies).
Thanks for sharing this with the Painful Truth.
It seems there are a lot of self proclaimed prophets out there in the world. Just in the splits of Armstrong-ism there are dozens.
I don't really have a problem with someone calling themselves a prophet as long as I can stone them when the prophecies fail. I think these prophets should approach their congregation with a contract requiring them to pick up stones if and when they fail prophetically. This would be keeping with Deuteronomy13:1-5.
I was just looking over your site. To
see herb and garners mug's again with that smirk just reaffirms
what I now know...those two wrecked countless lives and destroyed
multiple generations of lives, and laughed the whole time!
was fortunate to be kick out in the late 90's. I always felt
something wasn't right with that "church". And to see it
named a cult just felt right and long overdue. My road to recovery
began a few years back, but now that I found your site and another
one I submitted a story about SEP too. I find it therapeutic to
write it down. Going through some of the "hate mail"
just irritates me. To read about how "wonderful and blessed"
it was, makes me sick. I have found that it was the deacons or
ministers kids who feel this way. Those of us in the trench's,
knew of another life. one filled with poverty, fear, and such an
awkwardness in the real world. I spent many years with guilt,
alcohol, and drugs. Twenty years later, it occurred to me that
although I am over the damage of the cult, it still lingers. That
is why your site and others like it are important. I feel that
your site is an invaluable tool for recovery that so many seek.
grew up in the cult and lived all the hell that was herbies own
personal world. To see that his ideas and pluralistic crap is
still pedaled on the mass's, is amazing. I know some people who
jumped into the next cult after the original cult broke up. It's
so sad. They came out and said the whole sha-bang was a scam, and
still the blind and mindless follow. Until researching and
learning about the real WWCG, that concept was just plain
ignorant. But if someone is brainwashed all their lives, its kind
of a rut they can't see out of, which is why it is important for
you guys, and others like you to have a site where those who were
hurt, and others who will be hurt, can learn the real plain truth.
(ha-ha nice pun huh?)
Keep up the good work,
Allen Kansas ex-communicated and liberated 1989
Thank you for
writing thePainful Truth. Glad to see you got an early release!
repeatedly witnessed the cults inflict more death and destruction
than Genghis Khan's hordes, and warrants that I have every right to
refer to them as an iconoclastic sectarian whores.
Armstrong and his
minions used social engineering to steal reality from our minds, and
replace that reality with a surreal form of utopia packaged as a
fictional “World Tomorrow.” This engineering served his purpose
of gaining wealth and life long financial security. This is thePainful Truth that
the blinded optimist does not see!
To admit to
ones-self, that you have been made a fool of by a high school dropout
who robbed you, and deceived you out of tens of thousands of dollars
is a real shock at first. All those years scrapping for your family
and for what? To be given the “gift stick” shoved up your
keister? If I wanted to live lower than dirt, that should have been
my prerogative. Instead, the cult used what is now called undue
influence, using fear as the motivator toward submission.
Since those days
that I left the cult, I've read, studied and talked with so many
about mind control, that I hardly bat an eyelid when someone tells me
that they will never give the cult up. However, I will never stop
trying to educate those who still wear the veil before their eyes.
The magnitude of the cult's misrepresentations should disgust anyone
who has an even moderate education. And let me tell you, I'd peg the
odds at about ten to one that the cults will continue to promote
deceitful ideologies such as British Israel-ism, the EU taking over
and murdering all of America, the all too late coming of a messiah,
even after the current economic and political crisis is long
learn until maximum damage has been inflicted upon them. Never.
For those who can be truthful with themselves, I will use every avenue possible to
address the legitimate anger, fear, and alienation of people who have
been mobilized by the cults because they saw no other hope or options
for change in their lives. Those Armstrong cults, with their
craftiness and inhumane fear driven prophecies, will entirely control
a families income quicker than you can double-check the spelling of
questions need to be asked and answered. This takes a mind that has
been forced to evaluate truth in order to survive intact. At what
point does the membership reach this point? Perhaps the next date we
can add will be after the great disappointment of 2012?
We will indeed
see a mass exit from the Armstrong cult's when these time worn
prophecies, the same ones that old jowls used for decades, fail once
again. And they always fail.
As to hate mail,
it is usually sent by those who are unable to admit or are still in
denial about the whole wretched affair involving the cult! They are
proud to wear the badge of a fool. So be it!
Best to you,
My own ideas do correspond with Dexter's, but there is a twist.
The main reason for this realization is that technology increasingly empowers the individual against the state. The more that
individuals can by-pass the state for whatever reason, the more
"chaos" (from the state's point of view) increases.
Should this imply a "liberal" viewpoint? No, since religion is
merely an earlier form of the human attempt to develop collective
power. People were more easily organized if they believed "God did it."
As time went on, people began to realize that they could
understand and apply patterns of thought that always resulted in
generally the same results. This was the foundation of science.
The "axiom" of God was replaced with the "axioms" of science and mathematics.
With the development of Godel's theorem two realizations must occur:
1. Certainly there is no way to prove the existence of "God" as the sum source of truth by any axiomatic fashion.
2. Certainly there is no way that MAN can create a substitute authority in any axiomatic fashion.
Godel's theorem demonstrate that BOTH God and man are eliminated as a source of absolute collective authority.
Both church and state are discredited by Godel's theorem!
It would mean that each individual is more valuable
in this universe than any collective concept created by the mind of any
Godel's theorem also confirms this.
There is no axiomatic system, no matter how complex, that can develop a
system "higher" or more complete than itself. Or as Gregory Chaitin
pointed out, you can't build a dollar theorem from a fifty cent theory.
What Dexter has pointed out, therefore, is exactly what the bible has been developed to produce.
Let's look at Paul's key statements in Romans 8 and 9 as extensions of Godel's theorem.
If there exists no axiomatic way in which we can develop a
complete and consistent formulation of number theory, could we ever,
under any circumstances, develop a "decision procedure" powerful enough
to overcome the incompleteness of the individual mind?
It would simply be impossible. All we would do is to
be multiplying ignorance. To collectivize ignorance is to accelerate
entropy, which is the breakdown of systems.
Can the human mind axiomatic process, therefore, ever "access" the higher mind of God? Paul says NO in Romans 8:7.
If we cannot access that higher mind, is it ever possible to develop a decision procedure or algorithm to get to "God?"
Paul emphatically says NO (Romans 9:16-22).
So, what Dexter has written merely confirms what Paul wrote about two thousand years ago!
As a result of this realization, we are left with
revolutionary new ways of thinking about "the kingdom of God" which I
have explored to some extent in my studies on "The Bible and the Bill
of Rights" and "Due Process" etc.
What is government? Government is a decision procedure, a system of algorithms by which we wish to get from "here" to "there."
What is religion? Exactly the same thing.
Can either of them, therefore, ever get to any collective, organized concept of truth or God? Godel's theorem and Romans 8 says no, they cannot!
We are therefore left inevitably with Dexter's conclusions of "The God Factory." But the "liberal" view is merely a substitute of
"the state factory."
This is precisely why I have been exploring all the legal references and the origins of "due process" of law. The Old Testament actually anticipates this realization!
(Ralph has provided to the Painful
Truth, many articles relating to The God Factory. He is an highly
educated person who managed to escape the lackluster, money-grubbing
indoctrination and the consequently damaging doctrines of the various
churches of god.)
It is getting to be quite common today
to hear people express themselves as follows: "The God
Factory's” are a cancer that is slowly eating away at our minds."
Not in the same words of course, but in the horror stories and
various e-mails and articles.
Thanks Ralph, and thank you Dexter for
First of all, thank you for providing and
maintaining this website. It's one of the best. I especially
appreciate having Thomas Paine's great book provided.
I'm one of the early members, graduated from
AC in 1960 and worked in the organization until 1974. I was a long
time recovering and getting my bearings. I've recounted it all in a book I
wrote: Believing the Unbelievable -- Into and Out of Fanaticism.
I produced it to clear my own head and organize my own thoughts and to
hopefully help others see things more clearly in a lot of areas. I'm going
to attach my Word file and you have my permission to use it on your site in any
way you see fit, if you so decide.
Anonymity is not my goal. I have nothing to hide and I don't
claim to have perfect knowledge and understanding of everything, but I do know
religion is a crock and christianity and the bible are a farce.
Allen C. Dexter
Thank you again Allen for contacting thePainful Truth with your story. I realize that it is not just your story, but the mental anquish that one feels when you have been deceived,
your mind poisoned, and your pockets emptied. Armstrong's empire was built for one reason. To feed his insatiable narcissistic
noticed Bill Gordon's obit in the United News of UCG, I'm sure more
than a few people will be interested to hear that. I was in his
church area for a couple of years till he was transferred. My
experiences with him were not horrible like it was for some and
anything I know is mostly hearsay. He had a military background and
was hardcore. He did not seem to have any empathy and had a "you
made your bed, you lie in it" attitude.
heard stories where he denied to a family in need of food, not sure
what the circumstances were though. I also heard he has spies
checking on people. He did not have spokesman's club. Bible studies
were Q and A only. He did not read the pastor generals reports or
pass on much from headquarters. He like many of the ministers would
tell you what you were going to do to serve, no ifs, ands or buts. I
was told I would be the piano player and when I said I really don't
know how to play much, he said, "you'll learn." I guess I
should be thankful for that because I did learn.
met with him once for some counseling at his home, his wife Helen was
there and getting ready to go out but she just lingered around
listening until I left. I actually "came out" to him, he
had 1 scripture for me and I was to read a book and write a synopsis
and submit it to him. It was basically about not having a father
figure. I was surprised that he did not remove me from the song
leader, prayer and piano player list much less disfellowship me.
I told a friend who left the church after being under him for years,
he couldn't believe I told him. Unfortunately my friend committed
suicide on his birthday last year. I'm sure he deeply affected many
lives. You might be able to get some others to speak up. I knew
Diane, the woman who wrote a letter to the site then asked that her
name be removed, didn't know what was happening in her family though.
I heard he was fired from the ministry but officially it says
retired. He made a secret visit back to his church area to meet with
some specific members shortly after he was transferred, I knew people
present but don't know what it was about, maybe just a visit.
I finally did leave the church in the early 90s no one from the
ministry ever contacted me about why or what happened. I have no
affiliations with any organized religion and probably never will. I
appreciate sites like yours which have helped me recover. I would
rather not use my name if you use any of this.
you for the death notice. Although I never knew Gordon personally, I
do know the type of personality you are speaking of. So do others who
have posted their stories about this man.