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09/29/2012 Hello, I am competing a research paper regarding the mentality of slavery for my Human Trafficking Political Science course and found valuable information in The Painful Truth's Slave Mentality article by John B. There is a notice on the bottom basically saying it can't be used without written permission. May I use this artical as a source? I will make sure I properly site it. Thank you, Kevin
Kevin, PT-Editor,
09/30/2012 Thank you! Hi, I have been thinking a bit about the "final solution" lately (especially that exact choice of words) and learning more about the difference between religious Jews and Zionist Jews (they are definitely not the same thing) . I was very interested to see two things from your post. One, that Hitler was very secretive about his motivations (which makes perfect sense) and, two, that he considered himself a biblical expert. That really got my interest as it fit in with a theory I have had for a while. The conclusion I had decided BEFORE I read your piece (which I do not disagree with in any particular point - it is well thought-out) is I suspect that the primary reason behind the phrase "final solution" was his in-depth knowledge of the book of Revelation and the role that Israel (with Jews) would play in "end times" events. Essentially, we are seeing this drama play out now in the Middle East. Crazy as it may seem, perhaps Hitler foresaw these everts occurring if the Jews were to ever populate Israel again and wanted to prevent, essentially, the "end of the world" (as we know it, lol). In other words, he just took that book literally, as many do today. The only way to stop those events from transpiring, in his mind, was to eliminate that family of people. Of course, he had no way of knowing that his very acts would lend much sympathy to the movement for a Jewish homeland and, in one of history's greatest ironies, fulfill the very events he had hoped to prevent (according to my theory).
Just so you know, I am NOT anti-semitic and I believe that Jesus was completely Jewish and, obviously, one of the most inspirational beings to ever live. There is NO WAY Jesus would ever approve of any murder, let alone that of his fellow kinsmen. That being said, I have always wondered what could possibly motivate anyone to do the unthinkable things Hitler did. If, in his own twisted mind, he thought he was saving the world... I think that is the only rational explanation. Of course, the word 'rational' is misleading, but in religion what passes for rational is usually pretty irrational.
A KALEIDOSCOPE OF INTERPRETATIONS I have had very little contact with WWCoG members/off shoots since making a decision to leave in the year 2000. In the last 5 years there has been almost zero contact. However, recently I came into contact with a few; after cautious discussions with some of them, I have the following conclusions/comments: (Most of the comments in this letter relate to my recent contact with “Sam”) Recently I came into contact with “Sam” – he is now at the stage where he admits, there were many problems in WWCoG, but says he has moved on and accepted “the new covenant” – this in itself is good, because within his new system the obligation to keep days, tithe and various other things has fallen away, thus removing that burden from his family – of course the effects of many years of this burden still linger, and some of his current circle have made numerous comments where it is clear that these effects are still there, and in some cases is still a burden in itself. Some of Sam’s current circle are still struggling with “doctrinal” issues, and some are struggling with personal and other issues – as I say, the effects still remain and some are still suffering to one degree or another. In general, I believe a move to more “mainstream” organizations or way of thinking is a better course of action for most of those still intending to remain “religious” – these organizations/churches tend to be more sane, and the burden on members is generally a lot less – unfortunately for many from WWCoG, the doctrines still remain an issue, and they find it difficult to settle into say a Baptist church for any length of time; most mainstream churches do not outline their beliefs in a rigid “doctrinal” fashion, or at least the members are not motivated by doctrines – they find it strange when x-WWCoG members start questioning beliefs, or state that they don’t believe in “hell” – as a result many x-WWCoG members retreat back into small circles of contacts, mostly composed of members they knew from World-wide. In Sam’s case, he has a small group of people who sometimes meet for bible study, most of these will probably never integrate into the “Baptist” example, and will struggle along with their regular bible studies, but I believe they will never get completely past “doctrines, once you have been exposed to that a-la-armstrong, it’s very difficult to get past, so they will always be striving to get an answer via some perfect/correct “doctrine” [**COMMENT- it’s OK to have some doctrines/philosophies in life, but frankly there are no “answers” to life, and the big questions will NEVER be answered – far better to realize that people are not clones and that they see things differently] As far as Sam is concerned, there are a few things I have realized: although he says he has moved on, a lot of the old WWCoG characteristics/symptoms remain, ie he tends only to talk about his OWN beliefs and perspectives, he tends to cut people off when they talk about their perspectives, comments like “oh that’s not important” are quite common, even when discussing biblical issues. On some occasions, I have seen him make his point by saying “I’m not interested in what people say, I’m only interested in what the bible says” (VERY LOUD!!!) – thereby cutting people off ruthlessly and not allowing them to express their beliefs about the bible. [**COMMENT- a belief in the bible is really only how the person sees a particular verse at a particular time – you would have thought that x-World-widers would have realized that all biblical “understanding” comes from men, the bible is printed on men’s printing presses, is translated by men, was canonized by men, as far as I can see God does not come down from heaven and tell anyone the real, un-adulterated meaning] Other things that I have observed after Sam’s “moving on” is a very dismissive attitude to problems in the world, his basic approach is typically “I don’t know why you get so upset about things, the bible says that these things would happen” ?? – I have seen a universal tendency of people to dismiss the bad things and sufferings in this life: typically many non-religious people just say “I don’t give a stuff”, but many “religious/church-going” people use their religion to be dismissive as well, their typical response may be” but the bible says that these things would happen, I don’t know why you are so upset about it”, or “Well I just believe that Jesus will protect me, so I don’t worry about these things”. A while back I mentioned that one of my friends was suffering very badly, and that his wife had multiple sclerosis, after many years he finally turned to drink to dampen his pain, and had considered suicide on numerous occasions – a “Christian” lady commented that this man was focusing on his problems, and was therefore perpetuating the situation (!) There is a lot of this dismissive attitude to the sufferings of others, I’ve seen too many “Christians” pooh- pooh the sufferings of others. When I was going through some really black times in World-wide, there was no-one to support me – kind of reminds me of the story of the Samaritan who found someone beat up and lying in the road, who looked after him while the religious leaders of the time justified leaving this helpless guy in his situation – I can testify that some of the people in World-wide were the biggest cunts that I ever had the misfortune to come across, and classify them lower than cockroaches – all the while justifying their behavior by being in “the one true church” (losing jobs, income, friends and support because of the Sabbath and other doctrines was not amusing, it was bad enough, but many of us were accused of having no faith, being negative etc – it’s not funny when you’re sleeping in your beat up car next to the side of the road because you have nowhere to go – having the cops bang on your car telling you move etc etc) Other things that I have observed in Sam’s circle is a general consistent “tension” within his family (and to a degree with his small x-World-wide circle as well) – a lot of irritability with family members, speaking to his wife and children in a less than cordial way, many years ago they would regularly have a go at each other in front of church members – tirades of up to 20 minutes or more were not uncommon – recently I saw a bit of this as well, maybe say cut down to say about 10 minutes now ): ): - what progress – yes, the way church members spoke to each other even many years ago really boggled my mind – In any case, a general rudeness, abruptness, and general lack of social intelligence is still there – I suppose one can say there has been a bit of improvement (?) Sam’s wife is still suffering from general lack of self-esteem, and I have to question “normal” support that wives should receive from their husbands – his wife seems locked in a permanent forced smile, no matter what the situation, this smile is affixed, her voice seems permanently strained as if desperately trying to get some sort of recognition, which maybe never comes. You know, it’s very disconcerting, say you’re speaking on a reasonably serious subject, and still that smile stays affixed, still the strain of the voice, just trying to keep/force things pleasant. I also hate being asked five or six times in succession if I want tea or coffee, it seems more about desperately searching out every opportunity to appear/feel useful than being concerned about my “thirst” or trying to be a gracious host. Frankly, I don’t think she receives what she is desperately seeking; a normal recognition and a general feeling of normal self-esteem. I think Sam still fails to see the normal needs of his wife and children – I think it’s kind of sick when he mocks her in front of guests, this would be usually the x-World-widers, and another thing, this group has been together for about 10 years, does no-one have the balls to confront this bad behavior? No, they are such a bunch of lames that they would not risk “losing” the only person that they currently have as a crutch – so the behavior is perpetuated. OK, Sam seems sincere and in his own way has put in a lot of effort, he hasn’t just laid down and died, or simply tagged along as a die-hard old World-wider, and left that church and had to face some options, which really weren’t that many. Unfortunately, a lot of the old stuff is still there – I wish people would focus less on “doctrinal perfection” and more on the human aspect – learning how to interact better, how to give each person their space, their freedom etc. Instead of trying to force people to be so biblically perfect, how about just building people up and encouraging them once in a while – forget the “the bible says this” kind of reaction to everything that comes up. There doesn’t have to be a biblical label to everything. Once in a while “Christians” should just shut up and listen, and not be so arrogant as to already be formulating the correct biblical verse as a response before the person has even completed his story about his wife that has left him, the severe financial problems, or the ongoing situation of his son recovering from drugs etc. I witnessed Sam talking to one of his fellow circle talking about an issue involving some guy from a church group – this guy wanted to smear olive oil on his ceiling to keep out evil spirits – Sam made the usual snide remark – something like” I suppose we better all get down to the store and start stocking up on olive oil “ etc etc – yes very funny, I know some guy coming along and suggesting smearing olive oil on your ceiling is a bit whacky BUT – how soon we forget – what whacky things were done in World- wide? You might also ask, how did Sam’s friend get involved in such a whacky situation in the first place??? This article has been a summary of a few things that I noted when inter-acting with “Sam” recently. Generally I can say that there is a whole kaleidoscope/spectrum of interpretation out there – everything from 100% atheist to 100% die-hard Armstrong followers. Many are somewhere between. One more thing I would like to say about Sam; while Sam has “moved on”, and believes that HWA was wrong about many of the doctrines, he still says things like HWA was “one of his fathers in the faith” (!!??) This is where I part ways – I find it difficult to reconcile the DESTRUCTION in the WWCoG with “the fathers in the faith” concept. HWA was a liar and an imposter; I definitely would not classify such a person as “my father”, in the faith or otherwise. John Smith, August 2012
07/07/2012 Dear Dale and maybe John Smith, I was forced to go to the WCG for years by my Parents. I was about 6 years old when my parents joined the WCG. My life changed radically, within hours/days from a very happy family to a family of fear that the world would come to end very soon. My parents gave up their lives for the beliefs of HWA and his Deity.Your story sounds so familiar and just as tragic. So I ask you, why do you give praise to a deity that doesn't exist for leaving the WCG? To thank a deity for using your own reason and logic to disassociate yourself form the WCG is to discredit yourself from making your own decisions. What your saying is that a deity manipulated you into leaving the WCG and not you yourself. You therefore feel you are still being influenced by a deity and that you have no control of your own life. You are therefore a person who doesn't have his own identity, can't make decisions for yourself and that your life hangs in the balance of a manipulating deity? To decide to go your own path is a decision you made and nobody influenced you to do this but yourself. Take credit for this and you will finally be free of your religious crutch. You've just show that you can make decisions about how you wish to live your life and that you wish to take the consequences for those decisions. Ask yourself, who planted the idea that there are deities in your head? Again you stories are just like mine. Take credit for your decision to go your own way without the influence of deities. You saw through the manipulation and you chose you're own path. Take credit for yourself! I took credit for standing up against this path and I will continue to fight the evil that stand behind the false illusion of a paradise that doesn't exist. Ray Gardens 06/25/2012 Dear Editor - -
Hi John, They controlled every aspect of the believers life. What he ate, who he associated with, his medical decisions, what type of car the member should drive. On and on the list goes, and if it were not for bungling Tkach the list of legalistic insanity would have Ralph has the mass movement psychology down to a art. He is not only correct but is brilliant in his analyses. You can learn more over at: http://the-painful-truth-group.org/doojie/ I will post YOUR REPLY to Dale Bargar. PT-Editor, 04/26/2012 Just a note. I spent a considerable amount of time on your site over the weekend learning The Painful Truth about HWA and the inner goings on of what really happened way back when. I can't say I am surprised because I was always leary of someone proclaiming to be an Apostle who used the However, it did sicken me and saddened me tremendously to find out that HWA was doing to his daughter Dottie. Just broke my heart. I have been praying a lot that God would help me understand the truth about a lot of things like, not bearing much fruit, little use of talents and why we see so little healing today. Many of the big puzzle pieces began to fit in as I read your well-documented information. I know it took a long time to gather it all and make it available to the public, but thanks for having the courage to put it out there. I came into the Armstrong"ism" doctrine in 1989 and missed a lot of the action, but, made it out safely and am doing my best to keep growing in a true Godly direction now. B.
B, Its not only I that has contributed to the building of this site, but many, many others who experienced religion under the Armstrong group. Under the Armstrong regime few of us could bear the fruit that Jesus would expect from us. We kept ourselves busy keeping days, weeks and rituals, as we worked to make ends meet in order to support the regime and our families. I have found that those who still embrace Christianity years after leaving the cult(s) find that the teachings of Christ are much easier to understand and follow outside the mind control, ritual keeping religious cult(s) that we once owned us. By the way, how did you find us? PT-Editor,
04/26/2012 James: You are so right. We were so busy keeping days, and hiding our lights under bushels. Too bad we weren't encouraged to use our gifts or even taught that we might actually have them. I think it's difficult now, to get people to understand that to "each one" is given a gift, not just to the Ministers. In fact, I think many of them were not gifted at all and they have been the biggest harm to the Church of God, Armstrong at the height. They suppress, insult, mislead, exert control and pose as Ministers of light, when in reality many just want to be served, not serve. I found you because I was searching online for something about HWA. I forget now what it was. But, voila! The site popped up and I dug in and started reading. Definitely a bookmark from now on. B.
04/24/2012 Dear Painful Truth Editor:
Kathleen, I will indeed pass this message along. I am very happy that this book has been a healing experience for you. It is books such as "Faith" that allows us all to share not only the kindred spirit, but one of sharing and healing. Thank you for writing the Painful Truth and sharing your message with all of us! PT-Editor, I forwarded the email and received the following: 04/24/2012 Thanks for passing that along to me. While the book is based on mine and other's experiences in the WCG back in the 60's and 70's, I did take some writer's license with it (and the customs/doctrines/etc) so that it generically fits other similar groups. The WCG wasn't and isn't the only such group, sadly. This is the 2nd letter I received this week from someone who found the book healing. I am very happy if that is indeed the case. It was certainly therapeutic for me to write it, and several chosen readers expressed the same response. That is why I offer it freely to anyone it may help, even in a small way, to recover from our collective experience in the WCG. By the way, when I first got involved, it was the Radio Church of God. The name changed several times if I'm not mistaken, and I was told that happened to avoid lawsuits. Thank you for facilitating this!
Mary Ellen, You are more than welcome! Thank you for sharing this book. Many will find healing by the efforts you put forth! PT-Editor, 04/23/2012 Dear Ed, I’ve had a look at the supposed bible contradictions and many of them are ridiculous to claim as contradictions, however those that were “apparent contradictions” to my mind when I did internet searches I found reasonable and fair explanations in all cases. Notice I did not reject these without careful consideration, as only a fool answers before he hears a matter according to the bible. When I first was came into contact with the wcog around 1974, I thought how could I test them. They claimed that the bible didn't have any contradictions and none of it could be trusted if it did and fair enough. The different accounts of Peter’s denials was puzzling to me. I decide to test them with that. They took a very long time (I think over 6 months) to respond and in the meanwhile I joined the wcog. Their response said that I had asked a very hard question and that it had to be sent to America for an answer. Their answer was not to my mind satisfactory or a reasonable. I got a short response on the supposed explanation and a couple of pages on not being able to see the forest for the trees. They should have done better. I reasoned that they had tried to answer my question so that was ok, I thought. I keep this puzzle in the back of my mind until a couple of years ago. I thought if the bible does have as contradiction then it cannot be God inspired as the Bible says that it is impossible for God to lie. I decided to try and solve the puzzle. None of the internet explanations proved to be reasonable, after much careful thought I was able to find a solution that was possible. My point being that if you think hard enough there is a possible solution to each and every supposed contradiction. It’s easy enough to prove the wcog a fake, but it’s an entirely different matter to prove the God of the bible as one! The most amazing thing about the bible is that to understand it you have to do what it says. A good understanding have all who keep God’s laws according to the bible. I wonder if I’m casting my pearls before the swine. However I can only honestly tell you my experiences and maybe it helps some of the readers. There is no wisdom, nor counsel or understanding against the LORD. Ex-member Australia.
Hi again Adrian, You had it right when you originally thought "If the bible does have contradiction then it cannot be God inspired as the Bible" You were correct years ago before you joined the wcg. What were Jesus last words spoken? I must ask you the same question. "I wonder if I’m casting my pearls before the swine." PT-Editor,
04/24/2012 "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? What pearls are you casting? If you think I'm a swine maybe you are right, I don't claim to be anything, however I do claim God of the bible is something of very great significance!
Adrian, I'm not calling you swine. The points I try to make seem to bounce off you. If you want religion its your choice, not mine. Go in peace. PT-Editor,
04/25/2012 Fair enough, its seems most people who are ex-wcog members on this site anyway agree with you. I wonder why I'm different, maybe its because I followed the bible to the best of my ability even when I was a member. What I mean is that I didn't follow other members examples and I didn't accept church teachings if it clearly wasn't biblical. So when I left disillusioned with the church I did equate this as much as losing faith in God as others who seem to think the church had the right biblical teachings so if the church was wrong so was God. Hwa always used to say that a sign of Jesus near return was that many would come in Christ's name saying that He was the Christ. It actually says they would say " I am the Christ" Hwa certainly tried to represent himself as the Christ. I guess I'm the only one who can get the last laugh out of this because if your are right there is no way we will ever know because once your dead that's it. However for both our stakes I hope that I'm right and there is life after death. I am totally convinced that I'm correct and that the God of the Bible is real, but best of all that God who is so great describes himself as LOVE.
Adrian, You wrote: "I am totally convinced that I'm correct and that the God of the Bible is real, but best of all that God who is so great describes himself as LOVE." Most of the Armstrong people are convinced (after their heavy financial investments in the church) that there is life after this existence. For others, a near death experience has convinced them that God is indeed love and is nothing like the condemning and cruel god(s) of the bible. A god that was invented by man in order to explain away the unknown, creating in the process sin, obedience, and useless rituals that rob an individual of their self identity and self worth while creating a vast financial income for those who claim to "know" God or have "special" knowledge. HWA did indeed say that he was called by God with a "special" calling in order to raise up the "true church." In his bag of tricks, he pulled out a rabbit and named it prophet. In this new position of church seer, he tried to convince the gullible and hopeless of his God given gift, while fleecing the widows, and ignoring the orphans. "I wonder why I'm different, maybe its because I followed the bible to the best of my ability even when I was a member." So did I, and what good would come out of the experience? I no longer fear any god, prophet, seer or doomsayer. In the end I would rather believe what others say about the true God of love. The God people experienced while dead or dying. The God they knew before they were born onto this earth. This is why I wrote on the front page the following: "Armstrong was a man utterly without honor, without principles, without a shred of genuine decency or patriotism. He was the ultimate exterminator of religious life for thousands, and the grand compelling creator of a vast army of atheists." You don't need to fear, bow or grovel before this God. You need to experience this God and the unconditional love that is given freely. In the meantime enjoy life and your new found freedom! PT-Editor, 04/21/2012 I've been reading The God Makers by Ed Decker & Dave Hunt, an expose on Mormonism and its Masonic/Satanic influences and was struck by the similiarities between the teachings of WCG/offshoots and Mormonism concerning becoming "Gods" and was wondering if you know of any evidence of Masonic and/or Mormon influence on HWA or of his "borrowing" from their theologies. Danny.
Hi Danny, We have several search engine on the site that you will find useful in your studies. PT-Editor, 04/21/2012 Hello:
Hi B, Thanks for writing the Painful Truth. I hope this helps. PT-Editor,
04/21/2012 Editor: Thanks again,
I have no idea. I would think that he used the bible as the sole source. PT-Editor,
04/21/2012 OK, thanks. 04/18/2012 My name is Jade and I am a student from England. I am preparing to write my final year 10,000 word dissertation on the detrimental effects that religion has had on American politics. When I came across your website I was very impressed with the quotes you provided from the Founding Fathers and wondered if you could please let me know what sources you used? I would be very grateful if you could let me know and I look forward to your response. Kind Regards,
Hi Jade, PT-Editor, The following email exchange would normally be filed in the hate mail folder. 04/17/2012 dear NAMELESS PERSIN, i have read tons of your MINDLESS SCRUM BUT what i am most interested in is your Hait male. A fu yeers ago i wrote you a very cinsere letter and got a BLISTERING AND VULGER REPLY and i thot at time, WHAT KIND OF ASSHOLE would be sitting up there in the hi-seat. IF YOU ARCHIVE THE hate male as you say and NEVER REMOVE ANYONE FROM IT, i shure would like to locate my letter and sea if i can UPDATE IT. This MEEN SPIRITED PERSON was telling me all about there wife dying and how he had fallen into bad luck and NOBUDY LOVED him anymore. he just really had his head down below his butt and i was afred that he was just going to up and kiss his ass goodby. Ifn you can help me locate my hait male, i sur wud like to ad a few zingers to it because i kno by now this mean spirited person has grown in GRACE AND KNOWLEDGE and im not referin to his beer belly. respekfuly,
bbo
You cannot update your hate mail. James,
04/18/2012 I HAVE NEVER SEEN SUCH A HUGE COLLECTION OF MENTAL MIDGETS AS YOUR SITE OFFERS UP. WHY DON'T YOU SHUT IT DOWN AND GET A LIFE? JULIAN ASSANGE IS NOW BROADCASTING, "THE WORLD TOMORROW" ON RUSSIAN TALK TV (RT.TV) SO YOU CAN NOW GO PLAY IN THE FREEWAY TRAFFIC.
Such anger! And all in CAPS! James,
04/20/2012 For your information, a sentence should not be started with a conjunction. "Caps" is Billboard language. Did you ever attend an English composition class or for that matter any other class? Perhaps you are a graduate of Ambassador College. Home James! That's where you should go.
You have a lot of gall telling me about how to structure the English language. James,
04/20/2012 I WANT ALL OF YOU FART HEADS, WITH YOUR SUPERIOR ATTITUDE, TO JUST GO AWAY-----FAR, FAR AWAY! LOCK IT UP, CLOSE IT OUT. YOU ARE SERVING NO JUSTIFIABLE PURPOSE. YOU CANNOT HELP ALL OF THE WHINING MASSES THAT GOT SCREWED BY THE ARMSTRONG'S AND THEIR MINIONS, AND BY THE WAY, GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS AND FIND A REAL PURPOSE.
We are helping people. We are not going away. James,
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