Politically Incorrect
December 11, 2000
Guests on this program were: John Fugelsang
Dennis Prager
Sheri Annis
Eric Braeden
Panel Discussion
Bill: All right.
Let us meet our panel.
She is a political consultant and the spokesperson for a host of proposition campaigns, Sheri Annis.
Sheri.
[ Cheers and applause ]
How are you, young lady?Sheri: Thanks for having me again.
Bill: Sure.
He is a best-selling author and nationally syndicated radio talk show host on K870 --
KIEV, Mr. Dennis Prager.
[ Cheers and applause ]
Dennis, how are you, big man? Good to see you.
He is an Emmy-winning actor who stars as Victor Newman on "The Young and the Restless" at 11:00 A.M., I think it's on CBS.
Eric Braeden is right here.
[ Cheers and applause ]
They're screaming for you.
No screaming.
And a very funny comedian.
He's also an award-winning actor and popular television star, our buddy Mr. John Fugelsang is here.
[ Cheers and applause ]
Mr. John.
Okay.
All right.
So you all heard the Supreme Court today on the tapes.
By the way, 90 minutes they allowed for arguments.
Thanks a lot.
Of course.
You know, movies are too long.
Movies should be 90 minutes.
Could these guys think --
since the presidency is hanging in the balance, maybe give them two hours.
Eric: But wasn't it nice to hear a group of people deliberate calmly, intelligently, brilliantly in a calm fashion, instead of this tabloidal [ Bleep ] that goes on on television everywhere where people argue vehemently back and forth?
[ Applause ]
John: Hey, this show is --
Bill: I'm part of that tabloidal
[ Bleep ], I'll have you know.
[ Laughter ]
Sheri: That's why people think that's legitimate.
You're right.
You're right.
Bill: Wait a second.
61% of people in America now say that they think court decisions in this so far have been based on politics.
But I think they, until then, exempted the Supreme Court from that.
But I don't know.
I mean, the decision Saturday to stop the recounts --
5-4, looks like it's gonna be 5-4 again.
It looks like the Supreme Court is as bad as anybody else.
I can understand why James Baker would throw himself in front of a Ryder truck full of uncounted ballots.
That's his job as a hack.
[ Light laughter ]
But the Supreme Court, aren't they disappointing?Dennis: Well, don't forget.
The Supreme Court did go 9-0 in vacating --
Bill: In doing nothing.
Dennis: No, no, no, it did something spectacular.
It said the Supreme Court of Florida in their opinion had misruled unless they can give a better explanation.
It was a rather powerful hint, "Guys, get your act together." They didn't get their act together.
"The Miami Herald," a liberal pro-Gore paper, said they are ashamed of their court in Florida.
This is all the Florida court's fault.
And it's very important to remember.
[ Applause ]
Sheri: The Florida court was certainly extremely --
they put politics ahead of justice.
There's no question.
Eric: You mean the Supreme Court did not? You must be kidding.
Sheri: In the Supreme Court, you've got two justices who voted on the "for" side.
And you have to remember that these were appointees by Ford, John Paul Stevens, by the senior Bush with Souter.
So to say that it's purely politics I think is completely --
Bill: Yeah, but they have --
Eric: As they saw the votes for Bush diminish slowly, they very quickly, in the last, made a decision --
John: Every justice who voted for Bush was given a job by daddy poppy.
[ Light laughter ]
Sheri: Are you talking about Souter?
Bill: But if you are going to say the Supreme Court voted ideologically, they're conservatives.
Shouldn't conservatives --
as they always have --
vote on the side of, "Hey, let the states do what the states do.
Let the states handle it."John: They did.
Sheri: They did.
Dennis: The Florida Supreme Court overruled their own Democratic judges.
The entire problem in this issue is FSC, Florida Supreme Court.
John: The entire problem!
Dennis: Yes, the entire problem.
John: That's it.
That's it.
Dennis: That is it.
That is it.
There would have been a --
there was a recount, there was a winner.
And then the Florida Supreme Court --
John: All those blacks who complained about not being able to vote, no, that's not the problem.
The Florida Supreme Court.
Bill: Wait second.
John: And this is "The Matrix" and two plus two is five.
[ Laughter ]
Dennis: Okay, if that's the way you see it.
I don't see it that way.
[ Applause ]
[ Talking at the same time ]
Eric: The Florida Supreme Court is comfortable with people who are not Floridians?
Dennis: I'm sorry.
They are Floridians.
Ergo.
Eric: So why are they all of a sudden the problem?
Dennis: Because they overturned --
Bill: Wait a second.
Eric: If you argue the point that the U.S. Supreme Court is for states rights --
Dennis: Yes.
Eric: --
then obviously you cannot take that right away from the Florida Supreme Court.
Dennis: The Florida Supreme Court nullified states rights.
Bill: There's a liberal interpretation if there ever was a liberal.
Dennis: That is "The Miami Herald," which is a liberal paper interpretation.
Sheri: There are real Constitutional issues here.
And that's the 14th amendment and equal protection.
And do you count things the same way? That's the only reason why it's there.
Bill: How equal is it? You know, the first thing David Boies, Gore's lawyer said when he heard the ruling Saturday was, "where's the irreparable harm?"
John: Exactly.
Bill: Bush sued to the Supreme Court saying, "I have irreparable harm." Scalia said, "Yes, I think that's true." Doesn't that presuppose that he's already the president? Scalia said there's irreparable harm to George Bush because it might cast a cloud of illegitimacy of his presidency.
Isn't the idea here that we don't know who's President yet?
[ Applause ]
[ Talking at the same time ]
Sheri: That is from a legal perspective.
That is a threshold that you need to meet to grant a stay.
John: And God bless you.
Bill: But it's not irreparable unless you figure he's President already.
John: Exactly.
Scalia's a made guy.
Dennis: He is President already.
He was certified by Florida.
[ Laughter ]
John: He's a made guy.
Dennis: He was certified.
That's the law of Florida.
Go ahead.
I'm sorry.
John: That's okay.
That's okay.
You smell nice.
[ Laughter ]
John: I believe, Dennis Prager.
Wow.
Bill: You're using Mafia terminology.
John: Okay, yeah.
Come on.
It's not? It's all cronyism.
Of course, he's a made guy.
We're in a society where people are arguing that properly counting all the votes is bad for democracy.
Sheri: Spinning votes is bad for a democracy.
[ Applause ]
John: No, no, we're talking about a society where they're saying, "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain, he's just voting." Because Gore has asked for one thing.
Gore asked for one recount.
That's his right.
He has not had the recount he has asked for yet.
Dennis: He did get a recount.
The entire state was recounted.
No one has alleged fraud or machine breakdown.
[ Talking at the same time ]
It was recounted immediately.
John: Not manually.
No.
That's how Lincoln was elected.
If you want to believe that machines do a better job than a man, I dated a girl who believed that once, and it was very unhappy.
Bill: All right.
I have to take a commercial.
I can't put up with any more.
[ Cheers and applause ]
President Clinton lit the National Christmas tree tonight.
Wow! Big event there in Washington.
He said, you know, Al Gore, ever the environmentalist, has been bugging him for years to get an artificial tree.
But as the Supreme Court showed recently, who cares what Al Gore thinks?
[ Laughter and applause ]
Bill: Following the death of a Democratic House representative over the weekend here from L.A., political observers are floating the name of Magic Johnson to run for Congress.
They say he has it all.
He's an African-American, beloved by white people.
He's also a political novice who's actually been tested.
[ Laughter ]
[ Cheers and applause ]
Okay.
So we may be coming to the end of this tomorrow.
Let me ask this one question.
Now, I don't have a real dog in this fight because I didn't vote for either one of them, but I do think that --
Dennis: You didn't?
Bill: I do think we found out a lot about the parties and the people after the election.
And I do think that the rhetoric on the Republican side has been more vicious, and I don't understand why it's more incumbent upon Al Gore to step down.
When it goes against the Republicans, like James Baker said Friday, it's a sad day for democracy.
Next day it went in his favor, it was a happy day for democracy.
Wee, woo!Eric: It started the moment that Fox television, whose news desk I think is run by a cousin of George Bush, came out with the idea that Bush had won, which simply at that time was not the case.
Everyone else after that jumped on the bandwagon.
Since that time, the impression was created that Gore was trying to catch up or steal the --
Sheri: He was.
[ Talking at the same time ]
Bill: It's a disputed election.
Eric: He won the American votes by 250,000 votes.
Bill: Why is Al Gore --
Dennis: We choose it by the electoral votes.
Eric: Now let's get to the real problem.
That's the damn electoral college, which is an an anachronism.
It's ludicrous.
[ Light laughter ]
Sheri: This is day 33 of sudden death.
Eric: You know where that comes from? That comes from the Hamiltonian philosophy of not trusting the people.
Dennis: Right.
Eric: Hamilton said, "I don't trust the unwashed people.
Let's not let the plebes have too much power." That is where the electoral votes come from.
John: He got his, didn't he?
[ Laughter ]
Eric: It's an anachronism.
It should be thrown out.
Bill: In a disputed election, why is it incumbent more on one guy than the other guy to do the patriotic thing? Why is Al Gore the sore loser?
Dennis: It's not a rhetorical question.
All right.
Then there is an answer, in all seriousness.
The man is certified --
Mr. Bush was certified the winner.
Bill: By his brother.
Dennis: No, not by his --
[ Laughter ]
John: By his brother's posse.
[ Applause ]
Dennis: And it becomes irrelevant.
The legal --
John: It's the closest election in American history and we're saying, "it's really close.
It's really close.
It's so close.
Let's let not hand count the votes to be sure."Dennis: We'll never be sure.
The truth of the matter is, this is the way life has gone.
I do, and sincerely, I sincerely feel bad for Al Gore, his family, for Democrats.
I'm not kidding you now.
Eric: All of a sudden you've become philosophical.
Dennis: No, no, no.
You can knock this.
I have empathy.
Eric: It's a question of counting the bloody votes.
That's as simple as it is.
Dennis: It is not a question of testimony.
Eric: Count the bloody votes!
Sheri: Suck it up, he lost.
Eric: 45,000 uncounted votes.
John: That's ridiculous.
Bill: He's ruined every election.
Eric: That's nonsense.
Dennis: You can't make up new stuff in the new election.
[ Talking at the same time ]
Eric: Then there's something very wrong.
Dennis: Don't change it --
do not change the rules for the next one then.
Bill: But wait a second.
John: 5-4.
Who's in? 20 bucks on 5-4 tomorrow.
5-4.
20 bucks.
Who's in?
[ Laughter ]
[ Applause ]
Bill: But they're not changing the rules.
That's another big lie.
Sheri: Sure, they are.
John: You all can demonize Al Gore any way you can possibly conceivably demonize the guy.
I didn't vote for Al Gore either.
I'm not a fan of Al Gore --
Dennis: --
Buchanan.
John: Oh, yeah.
Yeah, like all the Jews who love the Third Reich down in Florida.
Sure.
Dennis: Buchanan's bad enough without the Third Reich being in vote.
John: His speeches are better in the original German.
Here's my thing.
[ Laughter ]
I find the most disturbing thing to me is the lack of dignity and restraint Bush has shown.
This guy lost the popular vote and you'd think he'd have the civility to say, "Well, gee, it was pretty close.
I guess we should be sure about this." But, no, it's the sense of entitlement.
It's the sense of, "It's my job." No, no, no.
Wait, this guy --
[ Cheers and applause ]
This guy is --
[ Cheers and applause ]
No, I didn't vote for Gore, all right? But I swear to God, I've wound up feeling sorry for Gore because of the way Bush is going around like Veruca Salt in "Willy Wonka" saying, "I want to be president, and I want it now."
[ Applause ]
Sheri: Al Gore doesn't know what he'll do without this presidency.
John: Who cares?
Dennis: If George Bush won the electoral vote as certified, call Katherine Harris all the names you want.
He won legally.
John: She's hot.
[ Laughter ]
Dennis: All right.
So she's hot.
Hot or not hot, he won.
What is he supposed do? Say, "You know what? I really didn't win." What is he supposed to do?John: Okay, let me ask you a question.
Every time there's a manual recount there's more votes coming up for Gore, which means there's a really good possibility, even a probability, that Gore did win the popular vote in Florida.
If they're not afraid of that being the truth, why don't they have the recounts? Because they're scared.
[ Cheers and applause ]
Dennis: There is a reason.
They did --
first of all, because they changed the standards by which you hand vote each time.
I mean, isn't that --
[ Laughter ]
What was that? I'm not --
John: I'm just getting comfortable.
It's like story time.
I want to hear.
[ Laughter ]
Dennis: --
Change the hand votes like Niagara Falls.
Sheri: If people honestly trusted --
Dennis: Come on, give me a break.
Sheri: If people actually trusted who was counting these ballots, I don't think we'd have any --
Bill: But wait second.
That's another lie.
Because there's a Republican there, a Democrat there and two cops or something.
There's no --
that idea that the ballots are somehow --
Sheri: Read the magazine --
read Michael Inch's article of people who were there to be observers.
John: No, you tell us why.
Sheri: Okay.
I've read it.
Those who were there to be observers, if they raise their hand they were basically told, "We're gonna take you out of here if you keep causing this trouble."John: What are you, tripping?
Sheri: No.
No, absolutely not.
They didn't want trouble.
They felt that if you disagreed --
Bill: Trouble?
Sheri: Yes.
Bill: Trouble was the riot that the Republicans incited --
Dennis: Riots?
Bill: --
To stop the Miami --
[ Cheers and applause ]
John: They threw them all in a pile.
They threw them all in a disputed pile where they're waiting to be counted.
They're all in a pile.
Bill: Jesse Jackson looked like Gandhi down there.
[ Laughter ]
Dennis: Yeah, sure.
Bill: They did.
Sheri: I don't know what riots you've been to, but that's not one.
Dennis: Oh, yeah.
"Let us in, let us in," by a bunch of 30 middle-aged guys in suits.
And this is now a riot.
You know why? Democrats are so unused to Republicans demonstrating that if they ever do it, it's all of a sudden a riot.
That's why you think it's a riot.
[ Cheers and applause ]
Bill: All right.
We'll take a break or I'll have a riot here.
Announcer: Join us this week on "Politically Incorrect" when Bill's guests will include actor Michael York, the one and only Joan Rivers, world-Renowned chef Wolfgang Puck and comedian Paul Rodriguez.
Bill: Big controversy in the England.
The BBC is going to run a Christmas special where the Virgin Mary gives birth to a baby girl.
It's a little different having a female Jesus.
For example, at the Last Supper, Jesus orders the lobster and then just takes two bites.
[ Laughter ]
[ Applause ]
Would I do it if it wasn't true?Dennis: Why would they do that?
Bill: The premise is true, that's the joke part.
John: That was funny.
Bill: Okay.
We were talking about what the candidates have shown us since the election.
It looks to me like Mr. Cheney's in charge.
Bush, I heard today, they said he did not follow the Supreme Court.
John: Shocking.
Bill: On the --
I listened to it.
You all listened to it.
Bush didn't --
he's down there --
John: He's watching "Smackdown."
Bill: He's watching "Smackdown."
[ Laughter ]
It looks like what we're gonna have is President Cheney, and then when something important comes up where Bush has to speak for a few minutes, they'll prop him up like they used to Reagan, push him out there, he'll say a few words.
But it's really President Cheney.
Dennis: This is to actually, I believe seriously, it will be to George W. Bush's advantage if he's President that the expectations are so low, because he can only pleasantly surprise --
I'm not being sarcastic.
John: I'm proud to be an American today.
Bill: That's how he won the debate.
That's his plan for life.
"People think I'm an idiot.
I exceed that --
"Dennis: Well, then don't call him an idiot.
Don't think that he prefers "Smackdown" to the Supreme Court.
You are bolstering --
John: Come on, you know this guy owns "Weekend at Bernie's" on DVD.
Come on.
[ Laughter ]
[ Applause ]
Sheri: You also have to give some credit to Bush for actually asking Cheney to be his vice president.
Cheney is --
John: Why? Doesn't he have his own friends? He has to go to all Jack's friends? He has to exhume James Baker?
Sheri: Hold on a second.
Cheney is one of the most distinguished men out there.
Bush is the CEO.
Bill: Thank God.
Sheri: Cheney is following his orders, and they understand their roles.
We're going to have a good presidency.
Eric: But whatever you think about Cheney, don't you think the real issue is --
and it's almost irresponsible to have someone be Vice President who has obviously health problems the way Cheney does.
It's irresponsible.
Sheri: If he made it through the Gulf War, I don't think Tom Daschle's going to be the one to take him down.
Bill: Oh, yeah, the Gulf War.
That was a real nail-biter, wasn't it? Oh, boy, that Iraqi Army!Dennis: The Iraqi Army was surrendering to the CBS news crew.
John: There wasn't even a war! It was a video game.
It wasn't a war.
[ Applause ]
Bill: Really.
John: Dick Cheney --
Sheri: I think you underestimate --
Bill: Oh, yeah, the Gulf War, I'm nervous that the Iraqis might take --
Dennis: Your guys voted against it.
The Democrats voted the against that war.
Sheri: You honestly don't think there's any stress in that war?
Dennis: God bless them for it.
Saddam Hussein was the Hitler of the Middle East.
John: And he still is.
So live it up, Cheney.
Good job, right?
[ Laughter ]
Dennis: It was a good job.
They didn't do enough.
John: There was such corruption.
President Bush --
Dennis: The Democrats voted against that war.
John: No, the Democrats wanted sanctions to take their time.
Bill: Not Al Gore.
John: Yes, sanctions.
Right, sanctions didn't work after the war.
They were gonna work instead of a war?Bill: Hey, you know what? Don't blame that on the Democrats.
That war was under way when Bush and Powell stopped it when they shouldn't have stopped it.
Dennis: I agree they shouldn't have stopped it, but the Democrats didn't want to start it.
There's a big difference.
Bill: Al Gore voted for the war.
Dennis: He did.
I didn't say he didn't.
John: --
The Americans who sold Saddam Hussein all the arms he used against us.
Cheney still has the receipt because he gift-wrapped the package.
That was him and Baker who sold it there in the first place.
[ Applause ]
Sheri: I'm still amazed you think he can sit there on the beach and run a war.
John: I'm not saying he was sitting on the beach running a war.
Eric: What does that have to do --
that was how many years ago? I forget.
How many years ago?John: Nine.
Eric: Nine years ago.
Sheri: Right.
Eric: What does it have to do with the present situation?
Sheri: Because he'd had three heart attacks prior to that.
Eric: Precisely.
Sheri: Right.
Eric: And now he had another little one.
Sheri: Right.
Eric: And the he's now becoming Vice President.
Sheri: That's right.
Eric: Are you kidding me or what?
Sheri: No, if he was able to do that after three heart attacks --
Dennis: Four years from now we will rejoin and he'll still be Vice President.
John: Seriously, first of all, I don't think he ever --
Dennis: No, I know, obviously.
John: Listen, it's all a Communist plot to make us think that Cheney has a heart.
Here's the thing --
[ Laughter ]
We all know that Bush is gonna be a puppet and there's gonna be a lot of Geppettos pulling a lot of strings.
And he's going to be the puppet --
Dennis: We all know.
John: You're right.
I apologize.
Dennis: Okay.
Thank you.
John: Those of us who --
Bill: Oh, come on, Dennis.
You're married to an ideology.
Dennis: We all know what? That he is not his own man?
Sheri: You're married to an ideology?
John: Yes.
Dennis: He's controlled by, name the people.
Bill: Why do they have him down there in the onion cellar in Crawford, Texas? He never seems to poke his head up over --
Dennis: Because if anything --
Bill: --
That ranch is a bunch of dirt.
Dennis: There was no reason for him to do so.
Anything, he should keep his distance.
The other man is in the spotlight properly so.
He is quiet.
If he spoke, you'd say he talks too much.
Bill: No, no.
Because Gore seems to be --
Gore seems to thrive in a crisis.
This guy seems to hide in a crisis.
Dennis: Thrive? Did you read the reports about the guy? Thriving? How do you see Mr. Gore thriving?
Bill: Because he's involved as opposed to sitting down.
Dennis: Yes, of course, he's getting more and more lawsuits.
Yes, he is involved.
Eric: The real issue is --
[ Applause ]
The real issue --
Bill: Eric, I can't.
I've got to take a break.
I'm sorry.
[ Applause ]
Announcer: If you're planning to be in the Los Angeles area and would like free tickets to "Politically Incorrect," call
[ Applause ]
Bill: Okay.
The real issue is --
Eric: The real issue is that after 200 years of a democracy, America has not been able to develop a machinery, a voting machinery, that clearly establishes whether a dimple is pregnant, that clearly establishes whether a Chad counts, in other words, the intent of the voter.
We have not established objective criteria of determining --
Bill: And they better fix that by next time.
Eric: That is the real issue of this entire election.
Hopefully, it will proselytize people enough, galvanize them enough to change that system.
John: Eric, will you leave my answering machine message for me?
Bill: All right.
Tomorrow, Marion Ross, Paul Rodriguez, Kennedy and Horace Cooper.
[ Applause ]
Give us your 2 cents! Mouse over and mouth off on the Politically Incorrect message board!
Politically Incorrect with Bill Maher
Executive Producers
Bill Maher
Nancy Geller
Kevin Hamburger
Marilyn WillsonSupervising Producer
Sheila GriffithsCreated By
Bill MaherDirected By
Michael DimichWriting Supervised By
Billy MartinWriters
Kevin Bleyer
Brian Jacobsmeyer
Bill Kelley
Bill Maher
Ned Rice
Danny Vermont
Eric WeinbergCoordinating Producer
Joy DolceProducer
Carole ChouinardAssociate Director
Bob StaleyStage Manager
Patrick WhitneyAnnouncer
Produced by:
John Cramer
Dean E. JohnsenExecutive in Charge of Production
John FisherProducers
Brad Grey
Bernie Brillstein
Marc Gurvitzabc.com Go Network
(c)2000 Follow Up Productions, Inc.
If you have anything you would like to
submit to this site, or any comments,
email me at:
CLICK HERE FOR EMAIL ADDRESS.
Back to "Painful Truth" menu
Copyright
The content of this site, including but not limited to the text and images herein and their arrangement, are copyright © 1997-2003 by The Painful Truth. All rights reserved.Do not duplicate, copy or redistribute in any form without prior written consent.
