Email To The Editor
Dear Sir: I read with interest, and a degree of amusement , the exchange between you and Carl. I am Christian and had been in WCG for more than twenty years. It always astounds me when Armstrong followers say that what he taught was not taught anywhere else but WCG. The reality is over 90% of his teachings were plagiarisms from others. He simply put a bit of his own spin on things to make it sound original to him and thus “revealed” by God. It’s like saying because I put salt in my meatloaf recipe I invented meatloaf.
Secondly, the major reason you didn’t hear these teachings elsewhere is because they were heresy. It was amusing to me to see him sighting Zechariah’s prophecy about all nations coming to Jerusalem for the Feast of Tabernacles. Lets pause and think a moment. Does Carl realize just how many multiple billions of people that would be, all trying to cram into one city. Good luck getting a hotel reservation. A real lack of understanding as to how theses statements were to be understood.
Lastly I can’t help but notice how his condescending and self-righteous attitude drips from his letters. It is evident by his scolding tone and USE OF ALL CAPS to really sock it to you. It seems as if he pictures himself standing alongside of Jesus at his return. You and I will be groveling while he says, “SEE...I TOLD YOU SO!!!”
Thank you for writing the Painful Truth!
Carl indeed gave it his best shot in his attempt to 'school' me about the finer points of Armstrongism. Having been a member in the WCG for around a decade, I can say that I also have tried to defend the indefensible back in the day. Like Carl, I failed in my evangelistic attempts to prove Herbie right.
What I failed to realize was that I had a confirmation bias. I would focus on information in a way that confirmed my own preconceptions. These preconceptions were taught to me by the WCG as 'truths' or information. I, like Carl, never questioned them. Pretty stupid huh?
Well a lot of us woke up to the fraud perpetrated on us when the suffering became to much to handle or when we used our intellectual God given gifts to figure out we were in a destructive religious cult.
Those who got out of the WCG/ACOG's survived, and those who stay we can only hope that they don't become self-destructive.
(CARL'S LETTER IS RIGHT BELOW THIS POST)
My name is Carl and I attend the United Church of God, an offshoot of the original Worldwide Church of God.
I just want to say briefly without having read your "FAQ" page at all. I don't need to. Any cowardly idiot can shoot from the dark without identifying him/herself and make accusations. Your webpage is written in vain and you will face Christ on that great day, but if you cannot look around and see the creation of God, you are a fool. Psalms 14:1 and 53:1. You even lack LOGIC! GOOD BYE!
-- Carl Binion
I sense hostility in your brief note. I take it your just discovering our website and are shocked to be discovering the Painful Truth about our former church and its founder.
You wrote "Any cowardly idiot can shoot from the dark without identifying him/herself and make accusations."
As to the thousands of pages on the Painful Truth, we have had a standing offer since our conception to take down anything found to be false or inaccurate. That still stands Carl so if you want to complain, feel free to prove us wrong on any article or point. Knock yourself out!
"...you will face Christ on that great day."
Now, the Painful Truth has been on line for almost 21 years and has proven to be wildly popular with current and former members. Who you should worry about is yourself when or if Christ returns. You follow after a false prophet who raped his own daughter for over 10 years. The clear evidence stands before you, why do you refuse to accept truth? What will Christ's word to you be?
Perhaps His words will be "I never knew you." Think about it Carl. It is a definite possibility.
"...but if you cannot look around and see the creation of God, you are a fool. Psalms 14:1 and 53:1."
If there is a God it is not the ones on display in the bible. Tell me, if you grew up in a Muslim country would you not say "there is no God but Allah?" Of course you would. It is part of the culture you grew up in. The same with western societies.
Now Carl, there is another problem with the Jesus you mentioned that you should be aware of. There are over 100 instances throughout history where a man was born of a virgin, died by various methods, was dead in the grave for three days and was resurrected. Why is this Carl? https://hwarmstrong.com/video/more/greatest-story/index.html
Read the pdf:
I have purposed that a God may exist. A God who is not fashioned after the image of man with all his hatred, jealousy, anger, threats, and outright mass murders. (The god of the bible has killed million within the pages of the bible. Satan is responsible for only two or three murders within the pages of the bible.) This God does not need to be worshiped like men do. Salvation is not even a issue. What is at issue is your journey on this rock called earth and what you have learned. Have you learned to love your fellow man? To serve those who need help? Have you learned empathy and are able to freely express it from the heart? Have you learned discernment, so that you are able to judge good from evil? Do you really try to live at peace with your fellow man? These are some of the thing's that men of good will love and value. How about you Carl? What do you love and value?
Hi again James, So you have actually attended services at the United Church of God? I cannot recommend anywhere else or any other offshoot because I do not agree with all their doctrines myself. Your faith is up to you. One thing I want to emphasize is that whatever you may think of Herbert Armstrong or his son Garner Ted, I have found in all my study that they are the most accurate doctrine I have ever read. I must admit there are a few points I disagree with, like the three resurrections. I cannot find any scripture in the Bible that substantiates that. Let me also say that I believe the Bible, not Armstrong. I do believe he taught what is in the Bible and I have found that nowhere else. Be patient with me I just want to ask you some questions if you have the time to answer. 1. Do churches follow the Bible when they worship on Sunday instead of the Sabbath, which is Saturday? 2. Do the holy days, you know, Passover, Days of Unleavened Bread, Pentecost, Trumpets, Atonement, Feast of Tabernacles, and Last Great Day, agree with man or do they agree with God? Indications of them are all through the Bible, you know. Armstrong was correct to incorporate that doctrine into the church. I attended an church where those things we taught before I ever heard of Armstrong and would not attend any church that doesn't keep the Sabbath or the holy days of God. 3. You said in an earlier email that we never mention Jesus. The Gospel of the kingdom is centered on Jesus Christ and I do not see why we would attend church at all if that were not so. 4. If Herbert Armstrong were a child molester and Biblical liar with all the knowledge he had about the Bible, he would face the most horrible punishment of any sinner because God does not respect his person or anyone's supposed position. (James 2:1-4) You know this so why waste your time putting anything on the internet when you did not personally witness these things. Who is it that will one day judge Armstrong and determine if he gets death in the lake of fire or eternal life with Christ and His Father? That is certainly not you, sir. So blog on if you wish and may God have mercy on you for telling evil things which will not benefit you, but could be your destruction. If you don't believe in Christ that does not mean He doesn't exist. Your mind, nor mine will change that fact. Opinions mean nothing to me. I have seen more proof of God in nature and the world around us. Any fool can see we, mankind, did not make the universe and everything in it. I would rather believe in God than in man, even though I can see evil man with all his sins and the evil committed every single day. Man is nothing before God. Also, if truth is subjective then why does Christ say there is only one Truth. That truth is the word of God, the Holy Bible. In fact, Jesus Himself is the Truth. I will continue to have faith in Him, not in you or any man, and certainly not in Herbert Armstrong. Armstrong's failings have made many like you bitter with disappointment. Why is that? You have trusted in flesh too much! (Jeremiah 17:5) The Bible says the man (or woman) who trusts in flesh is cursed. When you trust in any man or woman, then they disappoint you, the letdown is much more severe. I trust in NO HUMAN BEING THAT EVER WALKED THIS EARTH EXCEPT FOR JESUS HIMSELF. John 17:3 says Jehovah, the God of Israel, whom Jesus prayed to before He was crucified, is the Only True God. I didn't get that from HWA. What do you think of that, James? Isaiah 44:6 says: 6 “Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God." The King of Israel is the Father and the Lord of hosts is Jesus Christ our Redeemer. So James you can believe what you want and it is no concern of mine. If you hate God that much then I do not want to egg you on and argue about the truth, God, and etc. Have a nice day, sir. Carl
Your questions as to the bible are meaningless as I stated before, the bible I do not believe is the word of God. Further you never commented as to the article links I sent you that gives you an idea as to what I believe in and why. Your not listening, your trying to win a non argument with me. People like you will always believe in what Herbie and son taught you. You will never look at the other side of the coin. Go suffer for your indiscretions.
Hello once again.
I never said there were any gray areas, but with God there is not "middle of the road", no
demilitarized zone. I did not get that from G. W. Bush. I have always thought that way. Gray areas
are for people who don't know what the heck they are talking about and do not live in the real world.
Also, you like "Herbie" more than I do. His name isn't in the Bible and neither is yours so you nor
anyone else influences my thinking. Like Spock on Star Trek either you are correct or you are in error.
Life is Black and White. Either one is righteous or evil. In between people are useless to God.
I always do my own thinking, my friend. Do your own thinking.
Your categorical simplicity keeps you from understanding the complex world in which you live. Those outside your accustomed church social setting you view as always being wrong. Binary thinking limits one to simple and categorical conceptualization of complex subjects, constraining oneself to only two possible values for any variable. This is why some folks treat others outside the confines of their social group very differently from those within. People have a tendency to divide folks into categories if they are outside their group, hence your insults towards me.
I challenged you to step outside your safe boundaries and explore my views and opinions so that we could discuss them. You refused. Instead you label those who differ with you as friends or as foe, good or bad. If people are on your side, or against you. This is actually a simplicity-seeking process that maintains ones social perceptions within a group. In the end, this is detrimental to getting to really know others outside your social settings.
Consider this lesson from your bible:
So I am sorry to say Carl, you are not a free thinker in any sense of the term. You are confined by your perceptions within the group that you belong to. This is why it is called binary, or black and white thinking. You cannot look at the world outside the confines of your church or bible like Jesus did.
James, you are very misled, sir.
If the info you have about Herbert W. Armstrong is as shabby as the assumptions
you have made about me, then you know nothing at all about him or me.
Also you should be seeking the kingdom of
God with all your heart and not worried about a man who died in 1986. Let Jesus Himself
take care of the church. It is His church, you know. Be concerned with your own salvation, not
my lifestyle in Christ. You have absolutely nothing to do with my life and will not guide me. He
that guides me is the Lord, not you.
James, we must work out our own salvation with fear and trembling as Paul wrote in
"12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but
now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;"
Remember the righteous are scarcely saved and if you are worried about whether HWA was
a child molester and he is dead and buried, you have a problem, my friend.
You blog is not going to change the Church of God. We study our Bibles and obey God. HWA
is irrelevant to us in that light. We follow Christ, not HWA and not you.
Remember: Let God judge His church and you must judge yourself before He does.
17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us
first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18 Now “If the righteous one
is scarcely saved, Where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?”
James, if we follow Jesus Christ with all our heart we will barely make it into that coming kingdom
of God. How can we be saved and guide our own lives if we worry about the dead? HWA is dead
and Satan wants you and many others to be obsessed with him so you won't concentrate on your
own salvation. I truly believe that. HWA has turned into a diversion so you will lose your own soul.
I speak to people about the kingdom and the gospel all
the time. I don't know any rich or very poor, but just everyday simple folk who don't understand the
Truth and are simply going about their everyday business. I pray a lot and always stay in touch
with my heavenly Father. You should too.
I have been giving you God's word and since you say you have attended our church then
you should have take notes and studied what was preached when you got home. It will lead you to eternal life.
Without God's word man is in complete darkness and faces ultimate death.
One last thing is that I want to answer your question which was this.
"If there is a God it is not the ones on display in the bible. Tell me, if you grew up in a Muslim country would you
not say "there is no God but Allah?" Of course you would. It is part of the culture you grew up in.
The same with western societies."
The prophecies of the Bible that have come true are the proof. How is it that Israel did not exist as a nation
and the Bible says it would exist in the latter days as it does now? How is that?
How is it that certain nations of this world are in an alliance predicted in Ezekiel 38. How is it that Jesus was
born of a virgin just as predicted in Isaiah 7:14? How is it that Isaiah 13:19-22 says that Babylon shall
never be inhabited again? When Saddham Hussein tried to reconstruct it, there came a war called
"Desert Storm" and construction stopped on this partially built city.
The difference between Christianity and other religions is Bible Prophecies that came true.
Before Jesus came and the Romans sacked Jerusalem in 70 AD, the book of Ezekiel and other places
say that Jerusalem will be inhabited in the latter days. Read Zechariah 14 which illustrates the return of
Christ and how He will stand on the Mount of Olives at the end of the Great Tribulation. The first edict He
will issue is that all nations come to Jerusalem from year to year to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
"Sunday" Christians do not understand all this because they keep Xmas, Easter, and Good Friday which are
days based upon pagan worship.
I know nothing about other religions having people rising from the dead in 3 days and 3 nights. I know
"Christianity" as we know it is not obeying Jesus. They call Good Friday to Sunday the way Jesus was
crucified and arose from the dead when he actually said he would be in the heart of the earth for 3 full days and
3 full nights or 72 hours. That is found in Matthew 12:39-40.
I pray God draws you to His truth. There is only one True God as Jesus prayed in John 17:3. Paul the
Apostle wrote the following passage in 1 Corinthians 15:12-19. I will let you read that for yourself.
If Christ is not risen then we are in great trouble. Paul said we are false witnesses of God and will die in our sins.
No other God, not Allah, not Buddha, not Shinto, not any Indian or Native American god claims to forgive or remit our
sins. None of them say they are the only god in their own religious books except the God of Israel, not one.
So believe what you wish to, James. It is not up to me to convince you. All I can do is pray for you to have the
Father draw you to Him and to His Son Jesus Christ.
Take care and I will pray your eyes are opened.
Carl, you possess no significant intellectual skills whatsoever and have no interest in erudition. And I might also ask, who taught you how to structure a letter?
Be forewarned that this is the last time I am going to humor you. Don't bother to write back.
Now, you asked..........."The prophecies of the Bible that have come true are the proof. How is it that Israel did not exist as a nation and the Bible says it would exist in the latter days as it does now? How is that?"
Isaiah 66:8 was fulfilled when the Persian conqueror of Babylon, Cyrus the Great, authorized the return of the Jews to their homeland. How about the Koran Carl? Did you know that prophecies in that book have also come true?
"How is it that certain nations of this world are in an alliance predicted in Ezekiel 38."
“Magog” was a general term used in Ezekiel’s day to identify the barbarians living near the Black and Caspian Seas. In the Book of Ezekiel, Gog is an individual and Magog is his land. In Genesis 10 Magog is a person, the son of Japheth, a son of Noah, but Gog is not mentioned. The only place where you might actually find a Magog as named is Cambridge England.
Also this is suppose to be a time where the people of Israel are living in safely in the land. That has never been so.
"How is it that Jesus was born of a virgin just as predicted in Isaiah 7:14?"
The original meaning of the word parthenos in the Hebrew Bible translated by Hellenistic Jews in Koine Greek is "young woman", not "virgin", but the word eventually changed meaning over the centuries.
"How is it that Isaiah 13:19-22 says that Babylon shall never be inhabited again?"
Well it was occupied as you admitted. What part of “never” dont you understand? Babylon was also occupied for 18 months when US forces built a military base "Camp Alpha", with a helipad and other facilities on the ruins during the Iraq War. The same prophecy was said about Tyre. Tyre is now the fourth largest city in Lebanon.
"I know nothing about other religions having people rising from the dead in 3 days and 3 nights."
Well I gave you the link. Why didn't you read the article? Or is this a one sided conversation Carl?
"HWA is dead and Satan wants you and many others to be obsessed with him so you won't concentrate on your own salvation."
I have heard this all before. Many have tried to convert me back to the cultic life so that the Painful Truth goes away. And finally....
“Remember the righteous are scarcely saved and if you are worried about whether HWA was a child molester and he is dead and buried,...”
When HWA screwed his daughter that disqualifies him from the ministry.
"You blog is not going to change the Church of God. We study our Bibles and obey God. HWA is irrelevant to us in that light. We follow Christ, not HWA and not you."
The Painful Truth serves as a public service, warning those who might be tricked into joining a harmful cult. My blog and others HAVE changed the ACOG's. There are many who have been courted by these cults and have inquired about them. Because some people actually have a moral compass, they never get involved.
I could go on and on with you on this but I would be casting my pearls before swine. In all fairness I have given you several opportunities to counter what I have wrote to you. You have declined each opportunity and instead have harped on and on about various things. That my friend is disingenuous.
Even after telling you that I have no faith in the bible, you keep quoting scripture as if that will change my mind. You just dont get it. If anything good is to come out of this letter exchange, it will be as to just how brainwashed members of the various offshoots are.
Goodbye Carl. Happy trails.
Hello Ed , I hope you're healthy and becoming wealthy again? I read on your site bio how the HWA con artist squeezed around $100k from your hard earned pockets. You have to give it to the old Goat , he was a piece of work. Well all's good he'll have to explain his life with the rest of us on Judgment Day. Luckily nobody is getting packed off to that ridiculous Lake of Fire farce. The old Goat stole that scene straight from the Catholics! Can't believe the Papacy didn't file a Law Suite on theft of interlectual property
The reason for my email is to comment on the Dec 25th video.I had no idea how many Dec 25 Opps there are around the world? It would be very clear to any clear thinking Christian that Dec 25 has nothing to do with the Real Christ as all the established nonsense just does not add up. When the scriptures say prove all things and Trust No Man I am reading a sound Insurance Policy against Global Assholes. I think the bible transition from the Law in the OT to Faith in the New T is the perfect move by our Creator. We are free from everybody on this planet. We now communicate directly with God. No priests, vicars, clerics, evangelist, right reverands absolutely nobody. We read the scriptures and knowledge builds. Talk about keeping things simple? anyway Ed time to move on. Enjoy you journey in life Ed. Best wishes to all.
Thanks for the note Ed.
As you should know, the founder of the Painful Truth, Ed, handed the website down to 2 others editors over the years. Now its my turn. I am the fourth editor of the Painful Truth and have been for 9 years.
It is truly refreshing that those who embrace religion do not need some priestly figure lording over them. They are free. You mentioned the lake of fire concept being ripped off from the Catholics. Yes, Herbie did steal that doctrine of hell and put his own spin on it like he did with all the other doctrines. The man was a thief in more than one way. He created an army of blue ribbon tithe payers, many who became atheists later on in life.
One thing the ACOG's never mention is their use of the bible. Its a Catholic book. The Catholics hobbled all 66 books together and called it the word of God. Sheer bullshit. It is the writing of various ancient cults all combined into one contradictory mess. The story of the 3 days and nights is indeed about the winter solstice. The rebirth (resurrection) of the sun. Its an old story told again and again over millennium with gods of different names.
Regarding myself, it took me many painful years to figure out Herbie's scam. It was this website, the Painful Truth, that helped me put it all together. From that point I started to look at the bible and where it came from. Needless to say, I became agnostic. If there is a higher power, this power never wrote any kooky holy book. This power is so much bigger than any holy book god (who has human attributes such as jealousy, hatred and demands that go against biology or science) that its unreasonable and goes against human intellect to believe in it. A more reasonable approach to this is that we put ourselves down here on earth. All life comes from the universe (the heavens) and to the universe we return as energy.
The truth of our experience can be found in this short saying: "ARMSTRONG WAS A MAN UTTERLY WITHOUT HONOR, WITHOUT PRINCIPLES, WITHOUT A SHRED OF GENUINE DECENCY OR PATRIOTISM. HE WAS THE ULTIMATE EXTERMINATOR OF RELIGIOUS LIFE FOR THOUSANDS, AND THE GRAND COMPELLING CREATOR OF A VAST ARMY OF ATHEISTS."
Hello James , many thanks for your prompt reply. It saddens me that so many people the world over have been stained by all Religious organs. My view now is to review all material , test the logic and fit into my life what applies. But nothing is permanent. Views are always changing. Life is adaption.
Strangely I met some really fantastic people thru that HWA operation.But most just had blind faith and trust. The outcome surely is a broken heart and enormous bitterness. If these loving people had this beautiful outward community spirit without the constraints of Organized Religion we'd all still be life long friends. So here is the issue, why can't people live in harmony without some dick in a suit dishing out some looney swill morals? Why do people believe there has to be a school teacher in the yard for harmony and order?
But this applies to All People Controlled Operations. I have lost count of all the crap Perception Rackets on this Planet. Life sadly is multiple lessons. Some are good but nearly all are toxic. Just like our bodies , once you cease exposing it to junk , it automatically begins to heal. I can only hope that all the anger and bitterness quells over time. I myself have been cheated in marriage , in finance and trust. Each to be experienced but not terminated because of negative experience. Each can only be reviewed with a different outlook. In marriage , eyes and ears open at all times. In finance , spread your portfolio. In Trust - well that's life tested on a very long road and some..
I still believe the Bible is the good book. There are massive twistedinterpretations of it and no wonder once you get people involved in anything , it turns to shit. I mean how can a book be written in 3 languages over 2000+ years be sorted? Society today could not manage that caper and we have computers!!
I believe the core themes of good will and charity to all people , all cultures and all walks of life begins with openess. The rest is our perception on things. There are no blacks or whites , only people. In my short life of 57 years I have found that 98% of everything I read and observed is total bullshit. Modern medicine is Bull , mass media is Bull , peoples goals in life are Bull. ( Get rich?) Slave away for possessions which cannot add another day of happiness to yourlife.
The Global markets are a total Con.Then add rubbish like market protected processed foods , Wall street wars , Mandalay Bay mass shooting , politics , modern education , Fake science , bullshit Cancer treatments , fluoridation and on it goes. All garbage themes. I have a test in life , if it stings , smells weird , sounds weird , looks weird and utters retarded drivel I'm backing off real quick. Anyway James that's my spin on life. But who am I? Just another micro organism on this still beautiful planet whizzing thru space on a free journey to nowhere.
I wish you all the success in helping the Herbie ex pats. It is in mynature to drill people that harm me but then that would consume my entire life and when I think about that picture I can't be bothered wasting my life on screwed up issues. Life is way too short as is. Soak up the good stuff champ and ditch the crap. ( that's what dumps are for ) what ever the outcome , no matter the future take care James. Turn the page of this book on life and live the next chapter. Yeh mahn the Peace Train is a coming.
cheers champ Ed
I used to enjoy Garner Ted. Armstrong's "World Tomorrow" t.v. show. I still listen to some of his sermons and even agree with some of his opinions. He was a good speaker and knowledgeable on many subjects.
The strict, ridgid system you described is of course completely unsupported by the bible. I wish people would think for themselves and fully realize that all that speak from the bible are not saved or ministers of God. Far from it. I won't quote scripture, but I will make this simple point. In the book of Act's, after Christ's ascension, salvation went to the gentiles. They received basic starting points for salvation and then went into the Jewish synagogues on the sabbath day for more biblical truths necessary for true salvation. The book of Act's states that truth. They didn't start their own churches with their own names! All these modern day church organizations that multiply like cockroaches, didn't exist! I wish they didn't exist today as they are misleading many people. There are decent people within disorganized religion, but they are receiving truths and untruths. They are receiving lies in some instances, because the speaker is deliberately not telling the truth and not merely mislead themselves. People need to study for themselves and not trust in others to receive all the truth. I will only change my biblical beliefs when all bible scripture on a subject is considerered. Ex. The belief that Jesus is God. Nothing in the confession of faith requires it to be true and yet many believe it! Greek philosophers came up with the idea and since people love an intelligent speaker the idea caught on and spread. An internet search proved this point. A quote found on the internet from an ancient philosopher: "How could such a one be a mere man, receiving the beginning of his existence from Mary, and not rather God the Word, and the only begotten Son? For in the beginning was the Word, and the Word....." Apostle Paul stated the falling away was already beginning in his time! It has come along way in 2000 years (approx.). Alot more could be said on this subject, but bible verses need to be examined to prove Jesus was a man and was born like anyone else with the exception of no man was his father. A rather big exception. Take Care
Thank you expressing your opinion as to the current reality having to do with the false prophets within the Armstrong movement.
Indeed there are many false prophets, and Armstrongism as it turns out, is excelling in the field as it cranks out more and more of them on a yearly basis. Its all about the hunt for tax tithes. They build wealth and you take the financial hit.
Yes, I hear what you are saying and I agree. Thanks for writing your piece.
I was forced to attend Catholic school from 1978-1989, so, as you can imagine, I have spent the rest of my life unlearning the nonsense I was taught.
I never found the story of Jesus relevant to my personal life and spent as much time as possible shutting out what they were forcing on me.
I disliked being told how much I "OWED HIM" when I had never met him.
I asked why I was being held accountable for the crucifixion of this ONE guy, while no one held me accountable for slavery -which affected millions.
I was punished for being a smart ass. Critical thinking was never allowed.
At 18 years old, I was told I had this thing called "FREE WILL", so I held them to their word and I walked away.
They didn't like that, but I didn't care.
Thanks for writing your page/blog.
Good to see you gained your freedom from religious abuse.
When the ministry tells you that you OWE Christ, what they are really convening is that you owe THEM.
Your one of the smarter people. You figured out that you were being scammed. Many such as myself had to go the full gauntlet to figure out that these people were parasites on the ass of humanity.
My hat tips to you!
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