It's time to check out the month's rankings on Alexa, and the news is a mixture of bad and better.
Still in number one spot is Dave Pack's site, with another out of the same stable (Real Truth) in 3rd position. Both sites have been consistently tracking up since last month. A lot of the credit probably goes to smart marketing via ad links. Positions are unchanged except where noted.
01. Pack cult (RCG) 71,372
02. UCG 109,392
03. Real Truth (RCG) 151,903 (up from #5)
04. Born to Win (Dart) 159,725
05. WCG (Tkach) 186,239 (up from #7)
06. Bible Study 207,988 (up from #8)
07. Good News (UCG) 214,526 (down from #3)
08. Trumpet (PCG) 220,289 (down from #6)
09. Reluctant Messenger 263,689
10. Beyond Today (UCG) 270,988
11. AW Blog 327,689 (up from #13)
12. Tomorrow's World (LCG) 342,036 (down from #11)
13. Coulter 398,983 (down from #12)
14. COGwriter (Thiel) 408,141
15. Key of David (PCG) 533,148
16. ICG (Armstrong) 643,045 (up from #18)
17. Logon (Cox) 677,132
18. Vision (Hulme) 861,239 (up from #20)
19. CGG (Ritenbaugh) 915,331 (down from #16)
All other sites that we mentioned last time fell below the million mark. For those who like round numbers, the 20th position would probably go to The Journal (1,044,876).
Why include Reluctant Messenger? The webmaster appears to be a COG member, although a lot of other diverse material is carried on his site. At the very least it's worth a browse for the eclectic assortment on offer, ranging from the Bhagavad-Gita to the Gospel of Thomas (linked from the main page.)
The stats were sampled Monday 11 December PM (NZST).
14 comments:
"Both sites have been consistently tracking up since last month. A lot of the credit probably goes to smart marketing via ad links."
Sounds like he is doing the work in an efficient manner. Using tithes "smartly" ???
The people who rack up the numbers are members themselves keeping track of the "other side".
There will be those who find a site by surfing around, but, I think the majority of the hits are return visitors from other cog groups.
No *work* is being done by any of them. Sad.
Tithes are used for nice houses :D
To Gavin and all Bloggers,
This does have application at this time of the year."Once in Royal David's City " stuff.
Maybe controversial but worth reading if only to keep your disgust fresh.This is in French so you will need BABELFISH or SYSTRAN to translate for you.
"Ascendances Davidiques des Rois de France" by Monsieur, the Marquis of Franquerie.
Website www.chez.com/t3m/doc-ascendance-davidique.htm
Happy reading.
Jorgheinz
Laura, I think you are right when you say "I think the majority of the hits are return visitors from other cog groups." I have been working with google adwords regarding my book "Showdown at Big Sandy" (many thanks Gavin for the favorable review). I have noticed two things of interest:
1) Pack's RCG is *everywhere* throughout COG-land in search terms. I can speak from personal experience that google adwords is time-intensive. Either Pack himself or some competent employee is on the job. I believe this is Pack's major form of outreach.
2) In my own case I have noticed that when I place my google-ad on a given COG-world search term it pulls in a high rate of clicks for the first couple of days but then the clicks drop off to about half the initial level (even though the search term and the ad are unchanged). At first I was puzzled by this until I realized that as Laura points out it must be many of the same people searching and returning to the same places.
A comment on Pack, the second-worst of the COGs in existence next to Flurry: I think his business model is somewhat different than PCG, LCG, and the old WCG who are based on building local congregations with long-term stable tithe-payers. I believe Pack's model is to have mail-in tithe-payers for a period of time, with a high turnover rate accepted as realistic, but obtained at a profitable ROI for money spent through google adwords. It is analogous to the market for TV-evangelists' income, all competing for their share of the pie of shut-in elderly money available. Pack is competing for the money available from outlying COGsters who haven't got the word about what he is like. When they do, many will quit sending in money. But for every one who quits Pack will by then have gotten two new ones. The fact that Pack probably has only a few hundred (if that many) worldwide attending services almost is beside the point: I don't think that is at heart essential to his business model.
Pack in the late 1980s abused (rhetorically speaking) my gentle father in the Akron, Ohio WCG, as well as others; I would like to do my small part in putting him out of business if possible. To that end I am attempting to have my google ad on the internet-search gateways to Pack's organization, as well as Flurry's and other tithe-extracting COG-leaders, which will lead to my website where I have posted my chapter on tithing from my book. I think anyone drawn to those groups who reads this chapter is likely to have their cognitive dissonance increased concerning further support of Pack, Flurry et al.
My Quaker ancestors spoke well when they referred to ministers who took tithes as "teaching for the fleece and making a prey of the people." Too bad there are not more ex-WCG ministers like Dennis Diehl, who has turned to helping bind up the wounded, comforting the afflicted, and speaking truth to power (as Dennis does).
Greg Doudna
www.scrollery.com
I would be hard-pressed, from what I know of Pack to say that he even HAS a business model. Appearing on some form of radio, having a magazine, a youth group… seems to just be a part of his religion. In this regards, he is much like the other splinters who put on TV shows that I am convinced do nothing more than serve as a stroke for the leader’s ego and a nostalgia balm for the followers.
As for his web stats… I am suspicious. Given his emphasis on numbers, he certainly does have a motive for having them spiked. His traffic seems to constantly be on the rise, despite the fact that the site is fairly static in content. In his recent sermon, he highlighted this rise in statistics to a rather extreme extent.
As of his last broadcast, Pack elevated his commission to that of Apostle to All of the Gentiles, so it would follow that he manifest evidence that the world is beating a path to his front door. Is that the Pope on line one, Mr. Pack? You’ll get to him once you are through with the CIA? I will tell him to hold. Mr. Pack says he is going to be one busy boy.
If the latest photo tour of the Feast is any indication, Pack appears to have about 35 tithing members. All indications are that the Feast and tithing members of actual congregations are the financial backbone of Restored, which would make it a typical set up.* There are also numerous statements here and there that Pack really doesn’t need the money and is simply carrying on because it gives him something to do. I have no reason to doubt these claims, but my gut screams that this is simply not true.
Pack is into props. His church HOME OFFICE occupies an entire floor of a mid range office building. (It should be said that the suite is effectively shared with a small law practice.) I very much doubt he has been able to monetize the web site. He certainly has never justified the expense of the church having such expansive quarters. Pack’s only economy measure is that he has staffed the RCG exclusively with temps. As for the web site, he did not pay to have it initially developed through the neat trick of having the primary person involved walked away by the police.
My best guess is that the web site, much like everything else in Packland, is more a prop meant for internal consumption than a legitimate attempt at outreach.
*At 35 tithing members, assuming they are poor but obedient, this would place the RCG’s income at $210,000. At most, he’s spending 100K on the whole operation. That leaves plenty of money for Pack. This is entirely what the RCG’s situation seems to be.
ML said: "Pack appears to have about 35 tithing members"
RCG is actually more like 1500-2000 members from what I've heard.
ML said: "It should be said that the suite is effectively shared with a small law practice"
Have you seen the headquarters slide show on their website? They have most of the building pictured on the photo tour.
ML said: "Pack’s only economy measure is that he has staffed the RCG exclusively with temps"
That's not the case. RCG has 20-30 full-time people cranking out 3 hard copy magazines, dozens of books and a massive website
On what info are you basing your comments? wishful thinking?
Your hand wringing and verbal downplaying isn't going to make the size or impact of RCG, LCG or PCG any less.
Forms of "Armstrongism" are apparently alive and well in those three groups.
Pack supposedly inherited a healthy sum of money at some time in the past. Considering his mindset, one would have to guess that he plowed that into his business.
Unfortunately, it appears that he is quite driven towards his goals. People with a sense of self-promotion and that type of drive generally do enjoy at least a modicum of success. As his energies are rewarded, he's going to pyramid his successes to continue to sell his product, by using them as "proof" to the susceptible and naive that he has the witness of God supporting him.
This really isn't anything new. I've witnessed any number of people "faking" success, and then having their fakery become reality.
It's all in the hype. What's true is that we're probably watching how HWA got started originally. Most of us got snared by the tail end of HWA's act, and now, by example, we get to see how HWA got to where he was when he snared us.
BB
Responses to Whom it May Concern In Order
ML said: "Pack appears to have about 35 tithing members"
RCG is actually more like 1500-2000 members from what I've heard.
I was apparently completely full of beans here. I was going off a photo excerpt from the last FOT. When I mentioned that it seemed Pack had, at best, 35 followers of tithing age, no one corrected me. (I also must have heard it on another dissident site. I am not creative enough to come up with this estimate on my own.) Now that I have taken a look at the full FOT layout, your estimate may not be that far off base.
My methodology is to count the adults pictured at each FOT site and then double the number to determine each region’s actual size. I am making the very liberal assumption that half of the people in each region simply could not show. Also, the RCG makes mention that there were FOT sites which were smaller than the ones they are portraying.
Niagara Falls: 50
Snowbird, Utah: 50
Pandy, Wales: 15
George, South Africa: 11
Umlanga, South Africa: 11
Mombassa, Kenya: 30 (tons of kids, however)
Estancia, Philippines:5
Los Banos, Philippines: 20
Davao City, Philippines: 15
Runaway Bay, St. Anne Jamaica:10
Lagos, Nigeria: 8
Maroochydore Queensland United, Australia: 12
My best guess is that total tithing membership of the RCG is 450. For other reasons, I will stand by my estimates of RCG’s income and expenses.
ML said: "It should be said that the suite is effectively shared with a small law practice"
Have you seen the headquarters slide show on their website? They have most of the building pictured on the photo tour.
Look again and look hard. It’s only a floor and it’s not that big of a building. If you really want to be a buttinski, and I hope you do, check out the commercial class for the building listed. Google its address and suite number and you will have the name of the law offices it shares space with. Go into the Ohio public records for business and check out who is listed as RCG’s corporate agent—the very same firm. In fact, one of the firm’s partners the author of a Pack book on how to give all of your estate to Pack.
But don’t trust me. Trust www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/businessservices/corp
ML said: "Pack’s only economy measure is that he has staffed the RCG exclusively with temps"
Three to six temps, and they may not be exclusively for the use of RCG.
For extra credit, try to rent a suite in Pack’s building.
Best of luck, Junior Detective!
Mark Lax:
I am a COG "splinter" member who knows people in RCG. After a little "Jr" Detective work:
FOT Niagara had around 200 in attendance, Snowbird about 200 as well.
RCG has 25 full time employees in the office, no temps! Do the math as to what it would take just to pay them + rent & utilities for approx 15,000 sq ft (the entire middle floor of the building pictured)
There is apparently not any significant space available in the building. RCG is rapidly adding employees and looking to expand the office further.
No S- Sherlock :)
I am going to leave it at this:
You are misinformed.
My good friend byker bob said, "Pack supposedly inherited a healthy sum of money at some time in the past. Considering his mindset, one would have to guess that he plowed that into his business."
Dave Pack's parents were, I believe, fairly prosperous folks already, when they moved from Ohio to Greensboro, NC in the early '70s They opened a health foods store in Greensboro which was quite successful. So I would imagine that when they died (I believe that was around the mid-1990s), they left a sizable amount of money to Dave (and to his younger brother as well).
Dave's parents were wonderful folks; I knew Mr. Pack better than I did Mrs. Pack. Mr. Pack was outgoing and a most optimistic, energetic person. He had an "electricity" about him that showed his love of life. He made everyone around him feel energized. He and Mrs. Pack would present slide shows to the Greensboro congregation of trips they had taken to various places around the world, and Mr. Pack delivered a thoughtful and thoroughly educational (and entertaining) travel commentary.
I have often wondered how two such wonderful, non-authoritarian human beings could have had a son like Dave Pack. The only answer is that the Armstrongist system of hierarchical ministerial government can too often create "Frankenstein monsters". I wish that Dave would forget his sick delusions of grandeur, and re-enter the more joyful realms of humble human existence that his dear departed parents inhabited.
Mark Lax:
Whether you agree or not with the FACTS I present about RCG is inconsequential. What is of consequence is that people who read your posts on this site are made aware of your ignorance. It is clearly WILLFUL ignorance and blind wishful thinking on your part.
While YOU are searching for info on the web, there are many who are quite close to what is REALLY going on in these groups. There are people who have actually seen certain headquarters in person, have physical evidence of their size, and can actually see their impact...which is very real.
Lets get to the point!
All of the "anti-Armstrongists" out there are horribly upset by the fact that LCG, UCG, RCG, & PCG have a Major impact on many thousands of people's lives.
Your attempts to minimize their impact or size by churning out spurious facts may help you sleep better at night, but that doesn't make your facts true. You are so far off with your size and headquarters estimations of RCG it is comical. It is obvious you have no "first hand" knowledge and are basing your conclusions on guessimation...and you know it!
You are clearly not interested in the FACTS about these groups. If you were, you'd realize that many people who post as "anonymous" are are doing so for a reason, B/C they are very close the to inner workings of the splinter groups and perhaps members of them.
If your goals are to criticize and undermine the efforts of Pack and RCG, quit pretending the group is tiny and quit labeling insight as simply misinformed. Having a clear picture of the groups you are trying to hate will make you better at it.
A person close to this site once gave me some very useful advice about debating goldfish which I am heeding.
“Lets get to the point!
All of the "anti-Armstrongists" out there are horribly upset by the fact that LCG, UCG, RCG, & PCG have a Major impact on many thousands of people's lives.
Your attempts to minimize their impact or size by churning out spurious facts may help you sleep better at night, but that doesn't make your facts true. You are so far off with your size and headquarters estimations of RCG it is comical. It is obvious you have no "first hand" knowledge and are basing your conclusions on guessimation...and you know it!”
No, you miss the point: that these groups still hold sway over anyone is a tragedy. The numbers are just magnitude.
As for your numbers and methodology, I will let your very illustrative determination stand without comment.
--Mark Lax
Miami!
SO, should we follow the WOLF PACK or the ROD of IRON?
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