Yet another "gee whiz" article in the media about Christians who don't keep Christmas. This time it's Arnie Hampton and Todd Carey who step up to the plate in Scrooge-mode, along with a gaggle of similarly-minded non-COGgers : "It's not in the Bible," said Arnold Hampton, 58, minister of the United Church of God Columbia, Md., who hasn't celebrated the holiday since 1966. "Jesus never mentioned it."
These two articles (see the December 21 entry for a link to the other one) have got to be the biggest chunk of exposure UCG has had in a long while, perhaps confirming its status as the "respectable" face of Armstrongism today... which, to look on the positive side, must really have hosed off some of the other break-aways.
23 comments:
Quoting from the article:
Redmond acknowledges that some newcomers to the church have difficulty taking to the doctrine [of not keeping Xmas].
"It's a hard pill to swallow," he said.
The thought struck me, why should this be a "pill" that anybody has to swallow? These Pharisees are saying that if you keep Xmas you can't join their merry band of cultists. So big deal. Don't join their band then! Life is way too short to spazz over such splitting of hairs, such purest of the pure self-righteous nonsense. You just wanna eat your veggies? Fine. Others sometimes prefer a beef steak.
And then there was this strange quote:
"I really believe it is Satanic," he said. "It feeds into our selfish nature, that the season is really 'all about me.' "
Er, Mr. Redmond, ever hear of the Feast of Tabernacles? You know, that little Herbalist convention where people spend like drunken sailors? You folks blow thru more do-re-mi in one week of merry making than most people do on a decade of Xmases.
Stingerski said...
>>>>>And then there was this strange quote:
"I really believe it is Satanic," he said. "It feeds into our selfish nature, that the season is really 'all about me.' "
Er, Mr. Redmond, ever hear of the Feast of Tabernacles? You know, that little Herbalist convention where people spend like drunken sailors?<<<<<
Try to follow the plot. I don’t suppose that this Kelvin Redmond HAS particularly heard of the Feast of Tabernacles – the article referred to him as “Kelvin Redmond, pastor of Body of Christ Church, a 900-member nondenominational congregation in Raleigh, N.C., that doesn't celebrate Christmas.”
Sounds to me nothing to do with the COG organisations – indeed several sources quoted had no COG connections.
Noticed Bob Thiel hasn't said anything all the attention UCG is getting about Christmas.
Must be one of the hosed off
Don't ya just long for the day when someone writes the booklets
The Pagan Fertility and Agricultural Roots of the Jewish Holydays
preceeded by...
The Pagan Agricultural Holyday Roots of Paganism
preceeded by...
The Cave Painting Cro-Magnon Roots of the Pagan Agricultural Holydays of Paganism
preceeded by...
The Mammoth Hunting Neanderthal Roots of the Pagan Cro-Magnon Cave Painting Holydays
preceeded by...
The Homo Erectine Roots of the Mammoth Hunting Neanderthal Holydays.
and finally...
The Bi Pedal Roots of Homo-Erectine Pagan Thrill of the Hunt Holydays
:)
While I was growing up in the WCG, the two main attention drawing aspects of the church were 1) our non-observance of Christmas, and 2) our belief that Adolf Hitler was going to surface in Argentina to lead Germany and the Beast Power in it's conquest of the British family of nations, leading to the tribulation, and culminating in Armageddon and the return of Jesus Christ.
It doesn't really surprise me, then, that the ACOGs are still drawing attention for their non-observance of Christmas. Still, it must be a bit nicer these days for young ACOG children, since God and Jesus have been removed from the public schools, and Christmas is called "the Winter Holiday". We were mocked in my youth, but it never got nearly so bad as the Crusades or Inquisition.
There has been enough exposure to the Adventist family of religions' beliefs concerning the Christmas season that other churches have developed some effective rebuttals. We're seeing some of these in the media this year. There is also an ancient Jewish belief that it is wrong for mankind to commemorate physical events on planet Earth. Only Yahweh's holy days were to be kept. Even the Festival of Lights was commemorative of the miracle of the sacred lamp oil, and that's about as close as Judaism ever got to an "extra-Torahical" holiday.
Armstrongites, though practicing Judeophiles, do not observe Hannukah, probably because it, too, falls during the Christmas/Saturnalia/Sol Invictus season.
Stinger is right. Often these matters do boil down to veggies vs steak or potaato vs potahto. I'm at the point where I believe holidays or holy days just don't matter, except to the Pharisee types. The NT seems to indicate that the ones in the Torah were all fulfilled through the life and resurrection of Christ. Christians today seem to want to commemorate the birth and resurrection. Is that really such a horrible, pagan thing? There are no organized orgies or child sacrifices, which is the real way many of the pagans worshipped the gods other than Yahweh.
BB
There was no Xmas like my 9th when Dad set up his entire handmade Lionel Train layout for ME in the living room. I spent many hundreds of hours after that in the basement growing up just choo chooing through life.
Those are the fondest memories of all. Well and the shortwave radio!
I recall reading once a newspaper article about the charismatics who handle snakes as a part of worship back in the Appalachians. One of the men stated that he and his fellow snake handlers did not wear ties because: "Jesus and the Apostles did not wear ties". Yet it showed a photo of them dancing at services and they were wearing overalls and flannel shirts.
The UCG and similar organizations have committed the same species of error: they have failed to keep the whole law.
I had a WCG pastor some years back who did not wear a wedding ring, nor did his wife. He and his wife believed that weddings rings were rooted in pagan tradition. He did not proscribe rings for the congregation but it was clear he felt that the practice was wrong.
My guess is that nobody in the WCG is going to sell their wedding rings in order to eliminate paganism from their lives. For that matter, post-Christmas sales in retail stores have virtually become a part of the season. How many UCG ministers are going to tell their wives not to participate?
Some will argue that it is not practices tainted by paganism in general that are objectionable but those that are intermixed with Christianity. But weddings are a ceremony recognized by God. Therefore, something Godly is being tainted systematically by something un-Godly by the UCG.
Paul's criticism of the Galatians is that if they were just going to focus on circumcision, they were being incomplete. They needed to keep the entirety of the Old
Testament. Likewise, the modern day Galatians, the Armstrongites, in this same spirit are being incomplete about avoiding paganism, if that is what they feel they must do.
On the other hand, if they began investigating, they would discover that so many common practices have some historical association with paganism, that they may as well put themseleves in solitary confinement.
A joke at AC Pasadena back in the Seventies was "Why should we wear ties to services when they are pagan?" Hiding inside this droll observation is a kernel of truth that brings into question the entire Armstrongite approach to reason.
-- Neo
All very true Neo. Part of the problem, and it is not just a COG problem, but one of many who just take the Bible at face value are all the injunctions against "learn not the way of the heathen." "The things they sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons.." "Keep yourself unspotted from the world." "Come out from among her my people.." and so forth.
There is theme of specialness and avoidance from Genesis to Revelation that leaves many with questions of what to do or think about this modern practice, idea or quasi Christian mix that seems harmless etc.
I still say, it's the book itself that confuses the people more than the people being weird or self righteous about things the book comments little on. It comments a lot on the called out concept so people have to figure out what being "separate" or "partake not of their sins" means in real life practice.
Just a thought
On the other hand, when you read through the few posts that the New WCG ministers are making about Jesus and what it all means on their Surprising God Blog, you'd think they have lost their minds.
http://thesurprisinggodblog.wcg.org/
I think it would be beneficial if the UCG could adapt a "third way" on Christmas. It is time part with the traditional Armstrongist anti-Christmas campaign.
Here are some articles on a third way at
http://www.churchmessiah.org/CoM/Resources_files/COMChristmasMessage.pdf and http://heartofwisdom.com/blog/holidays/to-christmas-or-not-to-christmas-holiday-dilemmas/
...but I don't expect the UCG to pay attention. As I have told Douglas Becker, they are not good listeners (and he agreed) and may I add most of the splinters do not care for creativity, innovation and new ideas, in other words, "fergedaboutit!"
Here in God's Zone, Aotearoa, New Zealand we are pleased to unofficially announce the establishment of a Philadelphian breakaway called the Walladelphian Church.
We are sure that Mr Flurry will enjoy his Xmas present which of course will result in more pressure upon the remaining faithful to cough up with more lolly.
Jorgheinz
Oh yeah, Ideas were like the Wizard Of Id cartoon where the peasant was telling the King how the Kingdom could work better.
The King said: "well Buddy, with ideas like that, you'll really go up in this Kingdom."
Next scene Buddy is standing at the bottom stair of the gallows with the hooded executioner who says....
"Up you go Buddy.." :(
"
I must concur with Stingerski that huge amounts of dough were/are blown at the Feast of Tabernacles,including heaps on spirituous libations,commonly called Booze...why have Xmas when the FOT provides you with a substitute,without Shanta Claws,of course?
However,the COGs are all claws at Christmas time.( Funny how the Latin "caeli" and Greek "chele" are similar in construction but opposite in meaning if you see what I mean.)
Their attitude stinks.They are using a "pagan" festival which they deprecate,to extract money for their own cause.
Rodders is especially good at this.
I am sure this is not exactly acceptable in God's eyes.As I have said before,it replenishes the top shelf.
A Nonnie Mouse
Come on let's give the UCG a break on this one! They have taken a position that they do not wish to celebrate Christmas. They are not the only religious group to do this. People who are born again Christians will also be giving Xmas the two fingers this year.
UCG members are missing out on decorating a tree, sending Xmas cards and giving gifts. They can however continue to cook a lovely Turkey meal, buy tins of chocolates (like i do) and enjoy the days off from work!
They can buy each other gifts during the January sales or better still start keeping Channakah and exchange presents during this time.
I certainly enjoyed my turkey dinners this year!
questeruk said :
Try to follow the plot. I don’t suppose that this Kelvin Redmond HAS particularly heard of the Feast of Tabernacles – . . .
No, my oversight there. You are correct.
But, in the world of religious cults, most doctrines are interchangeable.
Perhaps that is why I took the article to be so. :-)
Pardon my "cultic" slip.
Robert:
You make the non-celebration of Christmas in UCG sound so, well, casual.
That minimizes the real angst that many go through in trying to determine what they can or cannot do at this time of year. Do they accept a "Christmas bonus"? What about Christmas cards? If there is an office party of some sort, can they go or do they go through all sorts of machinations to avoid the silly thing?
That's very different than just deciding not to put up a tree and buy a lot of gifts.
KMS
>>>Do they accept a "Christmas bonus"?
Answer: Well of course we accept the Xmas bonus, simply treat it as an end of year bonus for all the hard work that you have done throughout the year!
What about Christmas cards?
Answer: If you are a man like me people don't really expect you to send cards. Simply say "i just don't really send cards, it's not my sort of thing". If you are a woman you could say thanks for the cards, then reply, "i am giving money to charity this year instead of sending out cards". Just be sure to put a few coffers in the charity box!
The office party.
Answer: I have never been to an office party even when working in an office, the companies I have worked for just haven't been interested in socialising with each other.
But I do know that some members of the UCG go to the Xmas party telling me the tales of what went on and how they tried to avoid most of the embarrassing stuff.
As I am not a party person, I wouldn't go whether or not it is a Xmas one. Simply say, "I'm not into parties" Or go to it and enjoy the socialising just be sure that a) you don't wish anyone a merry Xmas - simply say "happy holidays" b) your not kissing anyone under the mistletoe!
Hope this helps!
Todd Carey, a Mechanicsville, Va., United Church of God minister, last celebrated Christmas in 1984. . . . But after unsuccessfully searching the Bible for an edict to celebrate the birth of Christ, Carey joined the United Church of God and now shuns the Christmas season.
Hmm, so Carey last celebrated Christmas in 1984, and he joined the UCG which didn't exist until 1995. I wonder what might be the name of the church to which he belonged from 1984 to 1995? Hmm. Interesting that the memory of Herbert Armstrong and his Worldwide Church of God has proved to be so ephemeral.
AH! HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!
EXCUSE ME!
I hate to once again rain on the parade of the cults, but I thought the facts should be emphasized.
CHRISTMAS NOT IN THE BIBLE?
That is a joke right? RIGHT?
let us review a small sampling of the Bible and see if the birth of Jesus can be found anywhere in the Bible! And if the birth of Jesus is in the Bible, then either the UOG is a liar or they are decieved! Isn't the great quote of armstrong "don't believe me, believe your bible?"
And if the birth of Jesus can be found, are we to IGNORE THAT BIRTH? Or are we to CELEBRATE WITH GREAT JOY? DON'T BELIEVE ME BRETHREN, BELIEVE YOUR BIBLE!
There are 425 Phophecies in the Old Testament about the birth of Jesus!
THE VIRGIN BIRTH IS A DIRECT SIGN FROM GOD HIMSELF!
ISA. 7:14, "THEREFORE THE LORD HIMSELF WILL GIVE YOU A SIGN, the VIRGIN shall be with child and will give birth to a son and will call him IMMANUEL!"
Isa. 9:6-7 "FOR UNTO US A CHILD IS BORN! A SON IS GIVEN, and the weight of the government shall be on his shoulders, he shall be called IMMANUEL, Wonderful Counselor, MIGHTY GOD, Prince of Peace, OF THE INCREASE OF HIS GOVERNMENT AND PEACE THERE SHALL BE NO END!"
Now, did we get this sign?
Matt. 1:20-23, "But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him and said, 'Joseph,son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is of the HOLY SPIRIT. She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name JESUS, BECAUSE HE WILL SAVE HIS PEOPLE FROM THEIR SINS! All this took place to FULFILL WHAT THE LORD SAID TO HIS PROPHET, 'THE VIRGIN SHALL GIVE BIRTH TO A SON AND THEY SHALL CALL HIM IMMANUEL,WHICH MEANS GOD IS WITH US!'"
Hmmmmm, is this true? This sounds a lot like "CHRISTMAS!"
Now, the issue seems to be, is this event worthy of celebrating. Are we to ignore this event? Is this an event so isolated that we should walk away and follow armstrong and say, God despises our celebration of the FULFILLMENT OF THIS PROPHECY?
First, let us ask, just what is the birth of Jesus all about? Is the birth of Jesus, that we have already seen is THE ONLY SIGN OF THE MESSIAH GIVEN BY GOD, a significant event worthy of celebration?
WHAT DOES THE BIRTH OF JESUS MEAN?
Isa. 49:6, The Lord says, "It is to small a thing for you to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I WILL ALSO MAKE YOU A LIGHT UNTO THE GENTILES THAT YOU MAY BRING MY SALVATION TO THE ENDS OF THE EARTH!"
DID YOU SEE IT? DID YOU SEE THE MISSION GIVEN TO CHRIST? TO SAVE THE WHOLE WORLD!
Do you now see the REAL GOSPEL?
Can you see the difference between the false Armstrong "gospel of a world super government for a select few!"?
The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD THAT NOW STANDS OPEN TO ANYONE WHO WISHES TO ENTER, NOT TO JUST THE JEWS! IT IS THE GOSPEL OF RECONCILIATION THAT GOD IS AT THIS TIME REDEEMING ALL MEN FROM THEIR SINS!
Armstrongism is all about EXCLUSION, while GOD'S GOSPEL IS ABOUT INCLUSION OF EVERYBODY! That was the entire mission and purpose of Christ's birth! TO BRING SALVATION TO THE ENTIRE WORLD!
IS THIS SALVATION TO BE CELEBRATED?
Remember, the cults say that "THERE IS NO COMMAND TO CELEBRATE THE BIRTH OF JESUS!"
Is that true? Because, if that is false, then the cults are proved to be absolute LIARS AND FALSE PROPHETS! Let's see if the Bible is really silent about celebratinmg the birth of the Messiah!
IN THE FULNESS OF TIME!
Gal. 4:4"But when the FULNESS OF TIME HAD COME, GOD SENT FORTH HIS SON..." when Paul wrote these words he had no doubt about the date of Christ's birth, and he emphasized that it was GOD'S CHOICE OF TIME NOT MENS. Heb. 1:6 declares, "WHEN HE BRINGETH THE FIRST BEGOTTEN INTO THE WORLD, HE SAITH, 'LET ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD WORSHIP HIM!'"
Then, at the word of command from the Father, "SUDENLY THERE WAS A MULTITUDE OF THE HEAVENLY HOST, PRAISING GOD AND SAYING, 'GLORY TO GOD IN THE HIGHEST AND ON EARTH, PEACE, GOODWILL TO ALL MEN!'" Lk. 2:13-14.
WOW! DID YOU SEE IT? GOD HIMSELF COMMANDED THE ANGELS OF HEAVEN TO REJOICE AND WORSHIP JESUS AT THE EXACT TIME HE WAS BORN!
AND DID YOU SEE THAT THE ANGELS APPEARED TO THE SHEPHERDS REJOICING AND SINGING PRAISES TO GOD AT THE EXACT MOMENT OF JESUS' BIRTH!
Now, what did the sheperds to do? Did they say to each other, "oh,well, you know Moses wouldn't want us to acknowledge this. THIS REALLY ISN'T SIGNIFICANT. We'd better just sit here and WAIT TILL HE DIES TO ACKNOWLEDGE HIM!"
NO! THE SHEPERDS KNEW WHAT IT MEANT! THEY LEPT WITH JOY AND WONDER SAID, "LET US GO RIGHT NOW UNTO BETHLEHEM AND SEE THIS THING WHICH HAS COME TO PASS, WHICH THE LORD HAS MADE KNOWN UNTO US!
AND THEY CAME WITH HASTE AND FOUND MARY AND JOSEPH AND THE BABE LYING IN A MANGER!
WOW! So much for keeping a secret! There they were, in the dark cold night, and suddenly Millions of Angels were there singing and praising and shouting with GREAT JOY! And they didn't just sit there! THEY WERE PROBABLY JEWS AND KNEW WHAT THIS MEANT! SALVATION!
THEY CELEBRATED!
Now, after they had seen the nativity, did they huddle together and say, "well, you know we'd better keep this quiet and you know, God really wants us to ignore this and so we'll just go home!"
NO! "AND WHEN THEY HAD SEEN IT, THEY MADE IT KNOWN ABROAD THE SAYING WHICH WAS TOLD THEM CONCERNING THIS CHILD, AND ALL THEY THAT HEARD IT WONDERED AT THE THINGS TOLD THEM BY THE SHEPERDS!" LK. 2:17-18.
WOW! GOD HIMSELF COMMANDED WORSHIP AND PRAISE FOR JESUS AT THE EXACT MOMENT OF HIS BIRTH!
WHY? because God knew that the birth of Jesus was the SIGN that He had given that the Messiah had arrived! THAT MY FRIENDS IS WORTHY OF CELEBRATION! THAT IS WHY GOD HIMSELF COMMANDED PRAISE AND WORSHIP AT THE TIME OF JESUS' BIRTH!
The cults will never see it, because they don't believe God. The cult members have been robbed of their ability to receive God's blessing of grace by a twisting of the meaning of God's words. They can't even receive the true Gospel!
But, God has something to say about armstrong,flurry,pack,uog,log and the other cults, and here is what he says to them:
"WOE UNTO THEM THAT DECREE UNRIGHTEOUS DECREES, AND THAT WRITE GRIEVOUSNESS WHICH THEY HAVE PRESCRIBED.
TO TURN ASIDE THE NEEDY FROM JUDGMENT AND TO TAKE AWAY THE RIGHT FROM THE POOR OF MY PEOPLE, THAT WIDOWS MAY BE THEIR PREY, AND THAT THEY MAY ROB THE FATHERLESS!
IS. 10:1-2.
God is ready to deliver you from these cults and their deception. He offers his free gift of grace to one and all. You cannot buy it for 10%,20% or 30% of your income. You cannot earn it by eating clean meats or keeping holy days or sabbaths.
God's grace is free! Without charge or price. Anyone who says otherwise faces God's wrath.
May the love of God set you free from these unscrupulous men!
nelson said:
ISA. 7:14, "THEREFORE THE LORD HIMSELF WILL GIVE YOU A SIGN, the VIRGIN shall be with child and will give birth to a son and will call him IMMANUEL!"
So then, you believe in TWO virgin births in history (not to mention all the "pagan" ones)? One in Isaiah 7, and one in Matthew's account.
Well then, there is nothing unique about a virgin birth.
Think about it.
Nelson
Being disingenious to the historical facts:
1. Jesus not born on 25 Dec therefore people are under no obligation to celebrate a day that is not the birthday of Jesus.
2. You quote the poor example of others who have not obeyed God's law but you do not quote the example of Jesus who was able to keep the law perfectly.
3. The sins of others does not annul the law nor is the excuse that we are unable to keep the law a reason for its abolition.
Eg. I cannot keep the law regarding parking on yellow lines because society has made it such that it is impossible to avoid it. Does that mean the law is now abrogated because I cannot keep the law? Can I write to my local council to tell them to annul the law because I am unable to keep it?
The Torah is living instruction on how to live your life. You quote tithing and its misapplication by COGs. The Torah is not annuled by the misapplication of other people who twist it for financial gain. The Torah does not require you to tithe to anyone except the Levitical priesthood to support the Temple and sacrificial system. People have misinterpreted the Torah but that is also not an excuse to advocate its entire abolition.
Actually, there is plenty of DIRECT EVIDENCE that December 25th is the date of Christ's birth. In previous posts I have detailed those facts. It is your choice whether you wish to follow it.
The issue at hand seems to the cults denial of the splendor of the birth of our Lord.
They print lies to deceive people. The main lie being that the birth of Christ should be ignored. The minister of uog told a lie. He said that there was "NO COMMAND FROM GOD TO HONOR CHRIST ON CHRISTMAS!" THAT WAS A LIE! They follow up with the idea that THE ENTIRE CHRISTIAN WORLD IS DECEIVED EXCEPT THEM!
As for the dual prophecy of Isaiah, I will side with 70 translators from Alexandria who in c150-300 b.c., used the appropriate word "parthenos," instead of "alma."
Is anyone really saying Christians are required to keep the law? Surely you know that Jesus kept the law in order to fulfill the law. Surely you know that the law was "nailed to the cross of Jesus!"
Are you attempting to place Christians under the law of Moses? Are you not aware that James, the head Apostle of the Jerusalem Church convened a conference to dispel this very notion.
Are you also not aware that "THE APOSTLES AT JERUSALEM SIGNED A LETTER TO THE GENTILES TELLING THEM THAT THEY DID NOT SEND ANYONE TO TELL THEM TO KEEP THE LAW OF MOSES!"
IN fact, the Apostles not only sent a letter, they SENT TWO WITNESSES TO VERIFY THE LETTER!
Are you not aware that Peter himself scolded those who attempted to place the yoke OF THE LAW on the necks of the gentiles? In fact, Peter himself told them the jews "WERE NOT ABLE TO KEEP THE LAW!"
Are you a jew? If you are a jew then you know that the Babylonian Talmud is the religion of the Jew not the Torah. For an explanation of the the Babylonian Talmud I direct you to any rabbi.
But before you embrace the Talmud, I would urge you to study Philip Schaeffer's book, "What the Talmud Says about Jesus!"
The jews never accepted Jesus. They still don't. One day they will. Until that day, my prayer is for everyone to come to the knowledge and love of the freedom that is in Jesus!
So then, you believe in TWO virgin births in history (not to mention all the "pagan" ones)? One in Isaiah 7, and one in Matthew's account.
Well then, there is nothing unique about a virgin birth.
Not necessarily. The prophecy in Isa. 7:14 was fulfilled in Ahaz's lifetime, as the text itself insists. Indeed, I argue that Isa. 8:3-4 relates the fulfillment of Isa. 7:14-16, though it's more common to state that "Immanuel" was King Hezekiah. But the initial fulfillment of the prophecy, in which nothing miraculous or mysterious occurred, was recognised by the disciples who had seen the Risen Lord as a foreshadowing prophecy of the mysterious virginal conception and birth of the Messiah.
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