(For all postings on Ronald Weinland click here.)"It is now with boldness, confidence and great clarity that I give to you what God has given me. I am to announce, through God’s direct revelation, that I am one of those two witnesses."
(Ronald Weinland, 2008: God's Final Witness, p.16)
"When this book is published at the end of summer of 2006, (with distribution in full swing in the fall), there will be a maximum time of two years remaining before the world will be plunged into the worst time of all human history. By the fall of 2008, the United States will have collapsed as a world power, or it will have begun its collapse and no longer exist as an independent nation within six months after that time. There is a marginal, six-month window of time that God has not yet revealed concerning this specific moment of time. This will be revealed some time soon after the distribution of this book begins."
(Ibid., p.244)
So there you have it, 2007 was the last full year of civilization as we know it. Hope you made the most of it!
Of course it's probably too late for the demon-possessed folk who visit this blog: agnostics, atheists, Catholics, Evangelicals and wickedly independent Sabbatarians; gehenna-fodder every one of you (with the obvious exception of Tom Mahon). But for those true brethren (which presumably excludes UCG, LCG, and other heretical factions of scoffers and naysayers) here's the precious link so you can read Witness Weinland's books for yourself. Download copies while you can... as they say at The Journal, this is "time-sensitive material."
Come the Fall (that's Autumn in the Ephraimite dominions of the North, and Spring Down Under), or six months thereafter, one thing is for sure, somebody is going to have egg on their face.
But never fear Ron, should all those infallible prophetic assurances turn to custard, there are some dandy time-tested tips for a quick no-apology-needed recovery. More about that in part 2.
78 comments:
Nice cuff links.
Nothing but the best for Witness #1
Whoever is one of the Two Witnesses, just give me your address so when the time comes I can stay at your house!
Notice how he avoids using "thus saith the Lord"? I guess he isn't ready for the lightning bolt just yet.
I think the self styled prophets(profits) and apostles need to use more imagination with their settings rather than copying HWA down to the "nth" degree.
I like the grammatical use of the word "or" in his prophetic announcement. Gives him a loophole in the event his timing is off a bit.
20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.’ 21 And if you say in your heart, ‘How shall we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?’— 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.
Need anymore be said..(the book of Duet.)
I still say making money off these guys is a great idea. Make a legally binding contract which says you give him $10,000 now, and in exchange he gives you $500,000 in 2 years. You make the amount low enough that he is more likely to pay to make you go away. But you have the make the bait high enough that he can't ignore the cries of "unbeliever" from his own flock, if he tries passing it up.
there are people in the world that think the 2 witnesses are actually 2 human beings?????
don't these people study their bibles?
One of the Two witnesses eh?
The left one or the right one?
And where is the other one?
Heh, heh. Hilarious stuff. I am struck by his conscious pose in the photograph. Compare this with the photo of the Herb on the back of the jacket of his Autobiography.
Both phalse profits are seated in a brown, leather wing-backed chair. HWA has a world globe on his left, ronnyboy has a world globe on his right.
HWA is leaning forward a little more, and his jowls are more pronounced, but the photo similarities are entertaining.
I've already met 23 of the Two Witnesses in my life.
"Need anymore be said..(the book of Duet.)"
Do what?
Annemarie,
Yes indeed, it looks like the herbal false prophet, it even smells like him. By George it must be Gerald Flurry! That profit did the same pose. Gee so "mush" like...hmmm...Herbie!!
First Witness,
Kscribe (all others are imposter's)
Can you imagine Dave Pack tolerating not being both of the Two Witnesses? The man can't work with anyone longer than six months, so I think that's why the Lord will have to do a short work. They can't get along a full three and half years.
he would be a natural for Coast To Coast AM with George Noory
Coast to Coast AM
When two (or more) "witnesses" have trodden the earth, in the classic Biblical sense, they have invariably been people of august dignity and accomplishment: Moses, Aaron & Miriam, Joshua and Zerubbabel -- men and women in the awesome roles of king, priest, prophet. These predecessors form a vast precedent for the "two witnesses" foreseen in the Book of Revelation. These aren't obscure, nice little folks with virtually no public profile, unknown and unheard in the public arena, but kings, high priests, prophets -- the known and accepted leaders of the people Israel. Why doesn't that enter the minds of those "who would be king"?
Sound the Trumpet,
Bang the drum,
Like or lump it
Things sound glum.
Fire and cloudburst,
Storm and flood,
Things are worst
In metres of mud.
See you in Petra.
Seamus
You know what? I bet the end is not nigher than you think. I bet that the world doesn't end in my lifetime at all. Any takers?
I thought not! In fact, I know that no one will take me up on that wager.
I can't even get anyone to bet just $100 on it. That sounds to me like the confident are not too confident about their stupid beliefs. And, for good reason . . . they know deep down that it is stupid, entirely stupid and nothing but stupid.
I'll stick my neck out even further, I'll bet $5,000 that Jesus does not show by 2012. Any takers?
Okay, what about this: if when you die you leave everything to me if Jesus has not returned by then? Any takers? Aw, come on now, take a chance. Just what are you, an "unbeliever" or a chickenshit?
What an epidemic of mental illness has spread from Armstrong.
"What an epidemic of mental illness has spread from Armstrong."
It is actually called "Fundamentalism". Anyone who takes the OT and NT literally will be afflicted with it.
Making hay from the "end time" has become pretty trite. It would be so refreshing if one of these guys would make a committment to disband his organization if his prophetic announcements prove to be wrong. But instead there will be some extenuating circumstances and "The Work" will go on. Pretty predictable. After all, Weinland learned this at Bricket Wood and Big Sandy. He knows how to spin a message to make a dollar.
All of this has good value for Weinland: it is a means of controlling his congregation and attracting a larger following. This ultimately means more money coming into the till.
After the frenzy among his followers and no appearance of the end time, there will be a revision of viewpoint with a new date proclaimed. You know like 1972. Herbert was right. It was just that Christ "delayed" his coming.
This time a year from now, Ron
Weinland will be spinning up a new message, writing more books and will be somewhat richer. An Ambassador College education teaches not only how to make a living but how to live.
-- Neo
It's just surprising how many ex-Armstrongites have a lingering psychological need for dire circumstances, and a desire to be part of an elite group that alone knows what is transpiring. It's astonishing how many people on some of the recovery sites have just totally bought into the conspiracy movement. And, they are just as fanatical about their conspiracies as many were with the doctrines of Armstrongism. You can spend days attempting to help them by refuting their so-called proofs, only to be inundated with a plethora of websites supposedly supporting their theories.
This could be yet another mental disorder caused by Armstrongism, or a confirmation that a certain number of the people attracted to the WCG were never particularly mentally stable to begin with.
BB
I'd listened to a couple of the "end-time" interviews previously in which he appeared to have more confidence than his interviewers.
The interviews are at the site Gavin linked to.
He's done a tour of radio stations promoting his "End-Time-Is-2008" schtick.
I just finished listening to the 12/15/07 interview, where the interviewer was much more on the ball than the two others I listened to.
When asked about the book of Enoch, poor Weinland had not a clue.
Weinland answered, "You've caught me off guard"
Then was asked, "Cheri wants to know, Is it wrong to wear a cross?"
Weinland answered, "Yes"
Weinland was then asked, "Is that a graven image?"
He replied,
"Yes. We don't use religious symbols. God condemns religious symbols of any kind to be used for religious worship, religious service, and so forth. You know, if you'd been killed with a guillotine, would they be wearing that around their neck?
Weinland is nuts. In the interview(in which he identifies himself as a Prophet and one of the Two Witnesses and says the other Witness is in his church but will not reveal who he is yet) he's asked about crosses, steeples, and lots of other things.
The 'Whore of Babylon', aka Catholic Church, is his answer to these and other questions.
It almost seems to become a joke to the questioner, with him sometimes answering before Weinland does to these questions.
When the Book of Enoch is brought up again, Weinland answers, "I have the power to see that what HE wants brought to this age is here and we have it."
He actually agreed he'd interview again once his prophecies come to pass, and also said he'd interview and admit being wrong if they didn't.
Mel said, "Weinland is nuts." Judging by the evidence in this blog and at Weinland's site, Mel is spot on. Was Weinland odd before his Ambassador College years?
Several years ago I happened to speak with California State University professors who said Ambassador College transfers were consistently among their finest students. Yet that college also produced a Gerald Flurry, a David Pack and now a Ron Weinland. There is quite a gap between the mainstream, wholesome products of Ambassador College, and the screwballs who sully the name so severely that graduates sometimes find it best to ignore their Ambassador College experience.
Methinks that Ambassador College did not create cultural misfits, but rather exacerbated some already shaky personalities vis-a-vie her headstrong emphasis on prophecy and the unconscionable travesty of "church government." These relatively few eccentrics lost their emotional moorings at the death of Herbert Armstrong. Lacking savvy or courage to think on their own, they picked up the Armstrong baton, warts and all, worsened the pot with their own unpalatable ingredients, and the rest is history.
Hopefully the future inspired by these strange leaders will be less tragic than Terry Ratzmann's Milwaukee LCG slaughter. Apparently the caustic offal he was being fed by that grossly insensitive leadership took him past the breaking point.
Peter Ditzel's account at http://www.wordofhisgrace.org/ratzmann.htm might be worth a look-see for anyone in the thrall of these seriously maladjusted misinterpreters of otherwise benign and holy writ.
May God mercifully open the frightened eyes of those who would otherwise tie their lives, futures and fortunes to the blind leadership of soulless men.
As far as I know, Weinland got his start here in my church area, Cincinnati, OH. He came here as a ministerial asst. to our pastor at that time, Bob League. He became League's sycophant, then he was sent on to his own church later, (don't remember where).
I've heard him speak several times. He does a lot of ranting and raving in his speaking, he reminds me of the story of chicken little. He runs around in the barnyard, flapping his wings and shouting, "the sky is falling, the sky is falling, repent, repent!!!! Corky is so right. It's all chicken shit.
This is Richard. I have been publishing excerpts from my unpublished essay "My Worldwide Church of God Reflections - 1972 in Prophecy! God's practical Joke?"
I thank God (and Gavin) for this Ambassador Watch website.
With respect to this Armstrongite false profit (oops, I mean prophet), rather than excerpting the various false prophetic statements made by old WCG ministers that I have already published on this website, I will excerpt a portion of my essay dealing with "the weirdos" found in the WCG.
Excerpt from section entitled "A Chosen People – A Peculiar People For Sure":
Third, in retrospect, the Church seemed to attract some of the strangest and “fringe” members of society. To mention a few, I remember “the Rockefeller lady”. She believed Nelson Rockefeller controlled the whole world and was head of a secret organization known as “The Illuminati”. The belief was that this secret organization was trying to establish a new world government with Rockefeller as its head dictator. I remember a lady from West Virginia who took the Church’s ban against the use of cosmetics one step further. Apparently, she didn’t believe a woman should be attractive at all –so she didn’t believe in shaving her legs! Grossly protruding out from under her dresses were the hairiest legs you’ve ever seen rivaling any of the ape characters in the movie Planet of the Apes.
Long after I had stopped attending, I still had some knowledge of Church people through
contact with my family members who remained in the Church after I departed in 1976. In the 1980s, there was a drifter that attended Church that my family gave work to. The drifter laced watermelon with the drug PCP and caused one of my family members to be drugged and hospitalized. A couple years later, the same drifter walked into a Montgomery Wards and went to a gun rack in the sporting goods section, loaded a gun and blew his brains out. There was a tax cheat in the Church that was about to go to prison for tax evasion, who also committed suicide. Suffice it to say, the Worldwide Church had more than its fair share of weirdoes!
The website, “The Painful Truth”, is a collection of writings from peoples’ experiences in the Worldwide Church of God. There is a page that lists instances of suicides in the Worldwide Church. I can add the name Nancy N. to the list - a friend of my sister in law in the Worldwide Church. One day, Nancy N. jumped into the Potomac River and drowned near Washington – believed to be a suicide since she could not swim and went to the river alone. The Potomac is known for having a swift current. I seem to recall a statement made in Church during the announcement of her death that we were not to form judgment (meaning lake of fire and eternal death judgment). More than thirty years later, I now form the opinion that it was a shame the young woman didn’t have a healthy church she could turn to in her time of need for support during any personal difficulties she might have been having. I also wonder what affect the Church’s doomsday message had on her state of mind.
In fairness, the Church also had some of the nicest people I‘ve ever met. These people were found in the Church’s rank and file and certainly not found in their ministry. These good rank and file members were very submissive people who did whatever Armstrong and the ministers told them to do –including foregoing their own future comfort and retirement in order to provide the Church’s business executives with a lifetime of income and financial support to pay for their lavish lifestyles, comfortable retirements, corporate jets, choice real estate, and Garner Ted’s gambling debts and prostitutes (all in the name of God, of course).
End of Excerpt
Richard
Ron said:
>>>I am to announce, through God’s direct revelation, that I am one of those two witnesses."
(Ronald Weinland, 2008: God's Final Witness, p.16)<<
I can announce that Ron is not one of the two witnesses. If that was the case, God's sheep would recognise his voice.
However, God has a controversy with the nations because of man's decadent behaviour, especially those nations that inherited Abraham's birth right blessings, and have unwittingly used the teachings of the bible as the basis for their so-called civilisation.
Whether we understand the full significance for the 9/11 attack or not, it was a defining moment in the history and dominance of the U.S.A.
As a consequence of 9/11, a US led coalition have invaded Iraq, and if estimate are to be believed, over a million Iraqis have either been killed or maimed. If God is a God of justice, and He certainly is, these people' death and suffering will not go unpunished.
So, although I don't have any reason to believe that Ron is even a prophet, he is right that the US will collapse. The Administration, whether this or the next, will rue the day it invaded Iraq. And while the common people, who are calling on the government to get out of Iraq are ignored, sadly, they will bear the brunt of the suffering when it comes.
According to Revelation 9:14, there are four angels bound in the great river Euphrates. When they are released at the blowing of the six trumpet, the gates of hell will be opened.
In the interim, the US will continue to experience unusually severe weather systems, not to mention earthquakes, which will begin to severely disrupt the infrastructure of the nation, and the ability of ordinary people to live relatively normal lives. But these events are only the beginning or sorrows for the whole world.
I could roll with Weinland being one of the "Two Witnesses", or someone like Benny Hinn being the great "Faith Healer/Miracle Worker" if they would just demonstrate one small miracle... in fact,one so small that it should be nothing for such men of "Spiritual Grandeur" to achieve...
If they could just heal or ressurect there own hair! Thats right, show your power on your own follicles! Thats all I ask in order to be a believer!
Bill Lussenheide, Menifee, CA USA
Soothsayer St. Tom Predictith: "As a consequence of 9/11, a US led coalition have invaded Iraq, and if estimate are to be believed, over a million Iraqis have either been killed or maimed. If God is a God of justice, and He certainly is, these people' death and suffering will not go unpunished."
"So, although I don't have any reason to believe that Ron is even a prophet, he is right that the US will collapse. The Administration, whether this or the next, will rue the day it invaded Iraq. And while the common people, who are calling on the government to get out of Iraq are ignored, sadly, they will bear the brunt of the suffering when it comes."
Tom: Although I will freely admit, as an American, that the invasion and subsequent bungling of restoring order in Iraq is already a sore spot with most Americans, let us be honest with the root cause of the situation. If my memory serves correctly, it was Great Britain that made one nation called Iraq out of what was three separate nations. Trying to get three peoples to get along that have a 1000+ year old feud with each other is quite a task indeed...especially when they are all 100% convinced that they are doing the will of their God. It may also be important to point out that Hussein did attempt to have a US president assassinated, directly supported terrorism in Israel, and killed hundreds of thousands of his own people. In my own opinion I would not have invaded because what religious barbarians do to each other doesn't cause me to lose one bit of sleep. I would have insisted back in the '70s that the British clean up their own mess.
Now with regard to God not letting these people's deaths and suffering going unpunished...Where in your interpretation of the bible is God the least bit concerned with the slaughter of innocents? I can only think of Abel, Uriah, and Jesus off the top of my head. The Results: Cain was banished, Bathsheba lost her son, and the rest of us were fogiven of our sins. Not so much as a grumble about the slaughter of millions of others.
Now since you are so spot on with your 'True' understanding of the scriptures, I am very curious to know exactly what you think the timeframe is...You say soon all the time, please define soon.
"Charlie asked:
"Where in your interpretation of the bible is God the least bit concerned with the slaughter of innocents"
Not to worry Charlie..I have serious doubts this event ever happened as the story itself is the only source of happening. None of the great on site writers of Jesus time noted it.
Besides, if all these babies had to die so Jesus could escape, we might have the theological problem of these kids having to first die for Jesus before Jesus died for them. Nomesayin?
From the text we can know that the Deity is mostly not kind nor all that good to humans. We know he hates figs for sure. So what chance do kids and people have?
JESUS REBUKED THE FIG AS AN EVIL ABOMINATION.
"Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he was hungry.
"And when he saw a fig tree by the road, he came to it, and found nothing on it, but leaves only, and said to it, Let no fruit grow on you henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.
"And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon has the fig tree withered away!"
--Matthew 21:18-20
JESUS COMMANDED US NOT TO EAT OF THE CURSED FIG.
"The next day, when they came from Bethany, he was hungry:
"And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if perhaps he might find any thing on it: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.
"And Jesus answered and said to it, No man eat fruit of you hereafter forever. And his disciples heard it.
--Mark 11:12-14
EAT A FIG, GO TO HELL.
"He destroyed their vines with hail and their sycamore-figs with sleet."
--Psalm 78:47
GOD PROMISES TERRIBLE VENGEANCE FOR FIG-EATERS.
"Yes, this is what the LORD Almighty says: "I will send the sword, famine and plague against them and I will make them like poor figs that are so bad they cannot be eaten."
--Jeremiah 29:17
Concerning Mr. Weinland. I think those Mayans have gotten the COG's to jump on board and maybe even our dear Government for 2012...the end of all things...But how could such pagan reprobates be given the sacred knowledge of the end of time?
It's a riddle, wrapped in a conundrum, encased in pizza dough and topped with beef peperoni
How about:
Who are the Two Wittlesses?
Who are the Two Dimwittnesses?
Who are the Two YabaDabaDonesses?
Who are the Two WhatChuThinkUDonesses?
Who are the Two InkaDinkaDonesses
Who are the Two Narsissitnesses?
Who are the Two INeverCalledUnesses?
Who are the Two Cluelessess?
Who are the WhatsaMatterUsesses?
Or The Three RonNDaveNJerryOoopsesses?
I should really it that little trask can in the lower left corner!
Tom Mahon says,
"According to Revelation 9:14, there are four angels bound in the great river Euphrates. When they are released at the blowing of the six trumpet, the gates of hell will be opened."
Revelation 1:1,3 gives you a real big hint when this is supposed to happen.
"things which must shortly come to pass" and "the time is at hand"
No, it does not say "things which must shortly begin to come to pass" it was "at hand" then.
Things 2,000 years in the future would have no relevance to the seven churches in Asia - and no, it doesn't say church "eras" either, that's an old Millerite belief. It is a man-made doctrine that has no basis in scripture.
>>>DennisDiehl said...
I should really it that little trask can in the lower left corner!<<<
Too much egg nog Dennis?
TV Evangelist John Hagee Wants War With Iran, and He Wants It Now!
by Bill Barnwell
http://www.lewrockwell.com/barnwell/barnwell73.html
If anyone still thinks that the radical end-times "prophecy" movement is not a threat to peace and stability, think again. At the popular level, in terms of the TV preachers and the hot-selling prophecy books, the dispensational pre-trib stuff still reigns supreme. Most conservative-leaning Evangelical churches in America today are heavily influenced by popular dispensational theology to some extent. Even churches and pastors that don’t teach pretribulationalism still are influenced by dispensationalism to varying degrees.
The most dangerous element of this prophetic paradigm, however, is its doom-and-gloom view of the world. And in most cases, those who have a fascination with the end of the world have a particular fascination with war and militarism as well. More problematic, it assumes that their wars of choice are not just their own foreign policy preferences or personal opinions. Rather they are ordained by God.
I guess Hagee won't be voting for Ron Paul, then. Oh well.
Paul
Yes, there is a very eerie resemblance to HWA in the photo. Turns your stomach.
Egg Nog..ewwww....never could get into drinking that mixutre of paint and eggs.
Just have clients today since most are on vacation etc.
Yes, the book of Revelation is out of date now since time was short and now passed. It's hard for one to say, "the author of the book of Revelation was wrong too." They were all wrong on time is short and there is no good apologetic for "to show unto my servants things which must shortly come to pass," 2000 years later. When the book says shortly it has to mean as humans count short, not as God counts short. That's deceptive and trickery on the part of the Deity.
The Book of Revelation has caused more human misery than it can ever balance off with "yahoo, here comes the Kingdom for the Saints."
Anonymous said: "TV Evangelist John Hagee Wants War With Iran, and He Wants It Now!"
Those who want wars should be obliged to fight them. Leave the rest of us out of it.
On another note: Is it some kind of rule that these religious nuts have to have their picture taken on leather chairs with a globe nearby? Some originality please!
Oh good, I get the 40th comment. I hope the significance is not lost on the group. 40 is the number of trial and new beginnings.
Should I ever draw a following, I shall sit on a sunlit throne in a planetarium with stars all around wearing a white robe and sundisc crown. A small astrolobe at my feet along with a bull, a lamb, two fish and a waterman.
I will say "Behold" a lot, but you'll have to fill in the spaces because I don't have any predictions. Of course, an offering will be taken up and I will ask you throw the change in your pocket into the offering as well as for single men to bring watermelons to the picnic.
That should attract quite a following and make a nice pic that send the message of a certain gravity and authourity.
And my robe will be full of eyes all around (stars) and I shall have four faces, one for each season (Bull, Lion, Eagle, Man)
You may approach me from any direction you choose. :) IF I invite you to enter the circle of protection!
Did this guy give Benazir Bhutto a Steuben Gift and speak to her about a strong unseen hand from someplace recently?
This would make a great article in the old style PT.
And yes the WCG was a zoo in the human sense.
As I remember, a good way to get killed was to accept a piece of Steuben from HWA.
Who ended up with all the expensive goodies given to HWA and Tkach by world leader types and local chuches? I bet Joe Jr. got some fine guns out of the deal
Bhutto *HAD* to know this was coming. She lasted longer than I thought she would. I gave her a week.
Corky said:
>>>"things which must shortly come to pass" and "the time is at hand"<<<
Peter explains how ignorant those people are who don't understand what is meant by "shortly" thus: "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day"(11 Pet.3:8). So according to the authentic voice of the Holy Spirit of Truth, it is just over two days since the writing of the book of Revelation.
Perhaps, in your ignorance, you could joined hands with Dennis, Douglas, Charlie, Bill, Stan, Mel, Kscribe, byker bob, bamboo bends, Robert, Thomas Munsun, mytwocents, jumpingjacksprat and Gavin for a dance around the xmas tree, while pulling Cracker, who has been blinded by your mud slinging.
DennisDiehl said...
>>>Oh good, I get the 40th comment. I hope the significance is not lost on the group. 40 is the number of trial and new beginnings.<<<
It only applies to the godly. To the ungodly, it could portend dark forebodings, you may trembling to realise!
Tom, perhaps you could grasp that the pseudonymous book of Peter was written to apologize for time being longer than short and coming up with a way to explain that short really means long and that none of the Apostles really made any mistakes when they said time was short, but they really did.
There goes Tom again with yet another red herring.
Your explanation is meaningless and provides absolutely no insight. Your position is that God would 'inspire' people in the bible to say things such as 'quickly', 'soon', and 'this generation' but the words are essentially meaningless to anyone that heard them then, or read them for over two thousand years. If you apply your concept of the thousand years as one day and apply it also to the generally accepted duration of a generation (30 years for human beings) then we have roughly 28,000 years left.
unbelievable.
Tom...call a counselor...
Tom Mahon says,
"blah blah blah" and "further more, blah blah blah".
Totally meaningless jibber jabber.
Out of more than one hundred verses in the NT that says the end is shortly, at hand, quickly, soon and in that generation, Tom, in his usual brilliance, quotes a single verse and the only verse that contradicts the hundred verses that say the opposite.
You forget, Tom, that it is the testimony of two or three witnesses that establishes a truth and not just one verse.
One witness verses a hundred witnesses does not hold water for a second.
Alternate calculation for 'This generation' using Tom's method of a day for a thousand years:
Generation = 30 Years
Number of days in 30 years: 10,950 (Not including leap years)
10,950 days to the Lord = 10,950,000 years.
>Snooze<
Members of the RCG should hold on to their assets a bit longer.
Tom Mahon:
Are you enjoying all the negative attention?
You're too much, man! Gavin posts so many materials related to the coo coo nature of the ACOGS. That attracts quite a bit of attention and discussion. Then you post opinions which thoroughly embody the coo coo items which Gavin has posted. Ever feel like an amplifier?
BB
BB: Tom loves the attention. He probably thinks he is being persecuted by scoffers in the last days...
"Bhutto *HAD* to know this was coming. She lasted longer than I thought she would. I gave her a week."
Well, she had to know that Musharraf, er, I mean the terrorists, wouldn't put up with her much longer, especially with the election and all. Either way, I am proud that my tax dollars are going to support Musharraf, our benevolent ally in the War on Terror.
Paul
Ron Paul 2008
Folks let's stop for a minute and ponder that great line in Matthew 24:34: "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place."
The word "generation" comes from the greek work genea. Now, did this word actually mean a generation of people living at the time of Jesus? Or can it have another meaning?
Scofield Reference Notes:
[1] This generation
Gr. "genea," the primary definition of which is, "race, kind, family, stock, breed." (So all lexicons.) That the word is used in this sense because none of "these things," i.e. the world-wide preaching of the kingdom, the great tribulation, the return of the Lord in visible glory, and the regathering of the elect, occurred at the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus, A.D. 70. The promise is, therefore, that the generation--nation, or family of Israel--will be preserved unto "these things"; a promise wonderfully fulfilled to this day.
People's New Testament
"24:34,35 Till all these things shall be fulfilled. Some hold that all these things, in Mt 24:32,33, refer only to what was said of the fall of Jerusalem, ending with Mt 24:28. Others have contended that the phrase includes the second coming, but refers directly to the end of Jerusalem, which was a type of the end of the world. I believe, rather, that all these things embraces all thus far predicted, and that this generation means the Jewish race, instead of only those then living. The Greek word, genea, so rendered is used in the sense of race in the Greek classics, and as examples of such use in the New Testament, Alford points to Mt 12:45 Lu 16:8. Christ has described the awful end of the Jewish state; after such a destruction and scattering of the remnant to the ends of the earth, all the examples of history would declare that the Jewish race would become extinct. Christ, however, declares that, contrary to all probability, it shall not pass away until he comes. They still exist, 1850 years after the prediction, distinct, but without a country."
As we have seen Jesus was not referring to a particular generation but rather this race of people, i.e, Jews, Israelites would be preserved to the very end of the age!
A is A.
2 + 2 = 4
"Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place."
Using the Christian approach, lets take another look at the first two statements:
A is K.
2 + 2 = 5
Paul
"Verily verily, I say unto you, the Jews shall not go extinct until the Apostle Paul and New Covenant writers, hijack, misapplies, misquotes, and generally makes Jewish history say what it was never meant to say and mean what it never meant...and then shall the Income."
The same word used for generation in Matthew 24 is also used in Acts 2:40 and many other places and clearly means generation and not race.
Oh Lord, free me from the bricks for brains people of this world and this generation - please.
Richard said...
This is Richard. I have been publishing excerpts from my unpublished essay "My Worldwide Church of God Reflections - 1972 in Prophecy! God's practical Joke?"
I thank God (and Gavin) for this Ambassador Watch website.
.....A Peculiar People For Sure":
Third, in retrospect, the Church seemed to attract some of the strangest and “fringe” members of society. To mention a few, I remember “the Rockefeller lady”. She believed Nelson Rockefeller controlled the whole world and was head of a secret organization known as “The Illuminati”. The belief was that this secret organization was trying to establish a new world government with Rockefeller as its head dictator.
.....
That perhaps is not so strange when Rockefeller family members have been quite open about their plans for the American hemisphere and our President seems to be following the agenda regardless of public opinion.
Check this out....
Are you reading the book of Matthew with your Greek mind?
Scholars seem to think the original book of Matthew was written in Hebrew.
Papias (Eusebius, H.E. 3.39.16)
"Matthew collected the oracles (ta logia) in the Hebrew language, and each interpreted them as best he could."
Irenaeus, Adv. Haer. 3.1.1
"Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews n their own dialect while Peter and Paul were preaching at Rome and laying the foundations of the church."
Origen (Eusebius, H.E. 6.25.4)
"As having learnt by tradition concerning the four Gospels, which alone are unquestionable in the Church of God under heaven, that first was written according to Matthew, who was once a tax collector but afterwards an apostle of Jesus Christ, who published it for those who from Judaism came to believe, composed as it was in the Hebrew language."
Eusebius, H.E. 3.24.6
"Matthew had first preached to Hebrews, and when he was on the point of going to others he transmitted in writing in his native language the Gospel according to himself, and thus supplied by writing the lack of his own presence to those from whom he was sent."
Epiphanius (ca. 315-403), bishop of Salamis, refers to a gospel used by the Ebionites (Panarion 30. 13.1-30.22.4). He says it is Matthew, called "According to the Hebrews" by them, but says it is corrupt and mutilated. He says Matthew issued his Gospel in Hebrew letters. He quotes from this Ebionite Gospel seven times. These quotations appear to come not from Matthew but from some harmonized account of the canonical Gospels.
Jerome also asserts that Matthew wrote in the Hebrew language (Epist. 20.5), and he refers to a Hebrew Matthew and a Gospel of the Hebrews-unclear if they are the same. He also quotes from the Gospel used by the Nazoreans and the Ebionites, which he says he has recently translated from Hebrew to Greek (in Matth. 12.13).
There is a Hebrew version of the Book of Matthew authored by Shem Tov (www.shemtov.org/. known as Shem-Tob- ben Isaac ben Shaprut born in Tudela in Castile in the middle of the fourteenth century. He later resided in Tarazona in Aragon where he practiced medicine. Part of his volume of works is a Hebrew version of the book of Matthew.
It is compiled in the book Hebrew Gospel of Matthew by George Howard.
It is available from Century One bookstore.
http://www.christianjewishbible.netfirms.com/competent.htm
Knock thyself out Robert.
Byker Bob pondered:
"Are you enjoying all the negative attention? "
Of course he is! He thrives on it. It gives him a raison d'etre. It confirms in his own mind that he is indeed one of the true called out ones who has been blessed with an exclusive knowledge that the rest of us poor ignorant saps never has a hope in hell of comprehending.
That, of course, brings up the question of why we play up to his fantasies. Perhaps a better way of dealing with the likes of Tom is to completely ignore him.
Robert,
Methinks thou needest a girlfriend, yea verily this hath been said unto thee!
Take care, friend.
>>>Knock thyself out Robert.
Thank you for the link. Very interesting thoughts there. I have often thought that my belief in Jesus is coming from a greek mindset based on greek ideas in a greek Bible.
We seldom ever realise or think of the historical Jesus coming from an Orthodox Jewish family with the gospels written from that perspective.
The godfearers is an interesting thing. Seldom ever mentioned that Israel had people called "godfearers" attaching themself to the covenant. Although they weren't expected to convert to Judaism. As the writer of the website rightly points out, Christians at least should meet the same standard as these "Godfearers" but do they?
The same word used for generation in Matthew 24 is also used in Acts 2:40 and many other places and clearly means generation and not race.
On the contrary, the initial meaning of "genea" is a family or tribe or nation, whether viewed "synchronically" or "diachronically." "Genea" or "generation" means "that which has been generated or born," and was sometimes used as a synonym of "genos," tribe or people. There is a similar range of meaning for the Aramaic word for "generation," sharbeta. "Generation" in biblical parlance doesn't necessarily refer only to those members of a family or nation that happen to be alive around the same time, though that has come to be the primary meaning. Acts 2:40 is a perfect example: St. Peter exhorted the crowd to save themselves "from this crooked generation." He wasn't telling them to save themselves from a period of time, but from a group of people. Compare also Matt. 23:33, where the KJV's "generation of vipers" is more usually rendered in modern versions as "brood of vipers.
Yeah, I get that. "Save yourselves from these crooked and perverse Jews"
Wait a minute . . . he's talking to Jews, isn't he? Guess we better go back to generation or be known as racial bigots.
Wait a minute . . . he's talking to Jews, isn't he?
Yes -- and he is himself Jewish.
Guess we better go back to generation or be known as racial bigots.
Racial bigots? Jewish people involved in self-criticism of their moral failings is racial bigotry? Were the Old Testament prophets guilty of bigotry when they decried the moral degeneracy of their people?
Look, Corky, I know it will be a grave disappointment for you to admit that the biblical use of "generation" need not be strictly a chronological reference, since it would deprive you of a favorite argument against the Christian religion and the veracity of the Christian scriptures, but you've got to face it: it really is true that "genea" was sometimes used to mean "people" or "nation" rather than "those people who happen to be alive around the same period of time."
Jared Olar said: "Racial bigots? Jewish people involved in self-criticism of their moral failings is racial bigotry?"
Jared, I think I can see Corky's point. The racial bigotry wasn't being conducted by Jesus or the prophets, they were the cause of it by what they had said. And if the meaning of generation really is a code word for race, then the point was that perhaps that was the cause of racial bigotry against Jews by Christian religionists throughout the centuries.
I tend to agree with those who see it as a failed prophesy, not some broad vague claim that Jews would never cease to be a distinct people.
Thomas Munson
"This race shall not pass, till all these tnings be fulfilled"
Well, duh. Who would expect the Jewish race to ever pass? Did Jesus condemn the whole race from time immemorial as the following would suggest.
"The men of Ninevah shall rise in judgment with this race, and shall condemn it:" (Matt. 12:41)
That won't work, will it? Because here you have all the prophets and patriarchs condemned too if the word means race.
Jared, I think I can see Corky's point. The racial bigotry wasn't being conducted by Jesus or the prophets, they were the cause of it by what they had said.
If somebody comes along decades, or centuries, or millennia later and latches onto someone's words to justify something never intended by those words, how is that anything more than a remote and very indirect cause?
And if the meaning of generation really is a code word for race,
It's not, and I never said it was. I merely pointed out that genea sometimes means "generation" in the chronological sense and sometimes means "a tribe, a people, a group of people."
then the point was that perhaps that was the cause of racial bigotry against Jews by Christian religionists throughout the centuries.
No, I rather think Corky was saying it would mean that the New Testament directly taught anti-Semitic bigotry.
I tend to agree with those who see it as a failed prophesy, not some broad vague claim that Jews would never cease to be a distinct people.
That's just one possible interpretation. Some early Christians saw "this generation shall not pass" as a reference to the Jewish people, others saw it as a reference to the Church, others saw it as a reference to the people living at the time that Jesus delivered the Olivet prophecy. I favor the interpretation that "this generation" in the Olivet prophecy means the Jewish people, and thus a reiteration of the prophecy in Jer. 31 that the people of Israel would never cease to exist. Really, if the text means what Corky and so many other claim, then why did the Christians continue to accept it as divinely-inspired and inerrant if it was really so obviously false as Corky says it is? Corky's favored interpretation just doesn't make any sense.
Who would expect the Jewish race to ever pass?
Quite a lot of people have expected it, and many have tried to cause it. Last century a horrifying war was started by a nutcase who want to cause the Jewish race to pass.
Did Jesus condemn the whole race from time immemorial as the following would suggest.
"The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this race, and shall condemn it:" (Matt. 12:41)
That won't work, will it? Because here you have all the prophets and patriarchs condemned too if the word means race.
In context, "this generation," "this people," is clearly referring to those of the Jewish people who were unfaithful to God and not open to Christ's teachings. Just as it is unreasonable to confidently expect every single Ninevite alive in Jonah's day to be saved, it is unreasonable to expect every Jew to be condemned. Jesus didn't say, "Our generation," "the people of our time," or "the Jewish people of our time." He said, "THIS generation," "THIS people."
Jared,
Scoffers like me knows what it meant because Paul said "the time is short" and scoffers in the first century asked, "where is the promise of his coming".
Try adding 2+2
Anonymous said...
Mr. Weinland claims to be a prophet and an end-time witness. Do you want to know who Mr. Weinland states is the 2nd end-time witness? In an audio sermon, “Gods Prophecy, part 2” approximately 55 minutes into the sermon, Mr. Weinland discusses the 2nd end-time witness. He describes the 2nd witness as belonging to their organization and that the identity of this witness must remain a secret. No one is too discuss this matter with anyone. God will give the identity of the 2nd witness during the last 3 and one-half year tribulation. Mr. Weinland describes this witness as a person who is a confidant and has witness beside him, since the fall of the WCG during December 1994. He does not come out and specifically say who this witness is, but does infer that it is his wife. Mr. Weinland in his latest book (God’s Final Witness) does make reference to the fact that he is the spokesman for both witnesses. So, if Mr. Weinland’s wife is the 2nd witness, then she does not need to speak because Mr. Weinland is spokesman. He also claims that many scattered church members will not believe this to be true because they have preconceived ideas of how God works. A woman witness just does not fit into the equation. This audio sermon “God’s Prophecy, part 2) can be located at www.cog-pkg.org/audio/.
Will his website be taken down on May 1st?
I'd roll around laughing if it didn't involve a real human being.
We shouldn't laugh at the insane, but refer them to a good psychiatrist. Hey, pastor Weinland, how about a plague of locusts ? I hear they're great chocolate-coated. Oh, hang it, I will have a laugh.
Give me a break. Gloom and doom goes on and on. How 'bout focusing on love, kindness, charity, treating people like you would like to be treated, respecting one another. God can deal with the evil. He can do it without 'ya Ron.
" And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken."
EVERY Single Prophet To Come From USA Has BEEN PROVEN To Be False.
Ronalds Wife Is The Second witness According To His site!!
Please Lord Jesus Christ Save Us From Our Fear.
AMEN
Well, i think that everyone will know by 2012 if ronald's right or wrong. we just have to wait for a few years before we find out, right?
No we don't need to wait until 2012to find out. This is what he said in a sermon on March 29, 2008:
"If by Pentecost I’m just going to make this real clear to everyone. If by Pentecost it is not powerfully and abundantly clear that there has been a great deal of destruction that will clearly encompass a third of all plant life in the US and at least the clear results of this mingled with blood the death of very much animal life and the beginning of large numbers of human life then I will stop preaching. Just so all the critics and everyone out there will understand. I am true to my word in these things. OK? And for all the critics if by the end of July and for most likely around Pentecost if nothing has clearly caused great destruction and death I will make it very clear that I was a false prophet. I will do exactly what I said I would do on all of those interviews that I have held; to do less, aah well, would be quite insane. To do less. Well. Would be quite insane (Weinland R. Three More Weeks--quote from near the 1 hour 28 minute point from the CGPFK website version. Sermon given March 29, 2008)."
Pentecost is 8th June (by his reckoning) so in six days he has to stop preaching if nothing has happened. The proof is sooner than you think
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