An update on the item about Manor Del Mar which has been in the sidebar for the last couple of days: seventeen photos are now up for those wanting a nostalgic peek at how the building looks now, viewable as a slide-show.Here's that original report.
Feel the need to trade up from the apartment to something more expansive? How about Manor Del Mar?
Can't you just see Six-Pack Gerry and various pretenders to the Herbal mantle rushing to outbid each other for a slice of the sacred campus.
What kind of moolah will you need for the mansion? You'll get it at a DIY cost of a mere 2.6 million. Chickenfeed if you've got a nice steady income from devoted tithe-slaves.
All joking aside, the PCG Prophet may indeed be interested in acquiring the property with his fetish for all things Herbal - after all, this is the bloke who hauled a rock back to Edmond because HWA allegedly prayed there. His latest effort to clone pre-Tkach WCG...[I]n 2006, we completed a set of architectural drawings for a $15 million, 800-seat auditorium we intend to build and dedicate to God. I wrote at the end of Raising the Ruins that we hoped to break ground on God’s house sometime in 2007. Today, on the first Sunday in 2008, we did it. On a gorgeous spring-like day, with temperatures topping 70 degrees, about 500 people joined my father in a 45-minute ceremony kicking off this historic project. For an up-to-date view of the construction site, go here.
Should you be bold enough to click on the link you'll get a webcam view of the Great Work - updated each hour! Be still my beating heart.And who knows, maybe another potential buyer might be Don Billingsley, who seems flush with enough tithe income to buy up lots of advertising on the main page of Charlotte Online - www.charlotteonline.us - two ads in fact, one with the face of the Late Great Apostle prominently displayed.
But why Charlotte, which, if my poor knowledge of US geography is adequate, is quite some distance from Modesto? Surely Don isn't trying to poach members from Meredith's LCG and the Ritenbaugh Church of the Great God, both based in Charlotte?
No, perish the very thought.
43 comments:
If you read between the lines, the old place is a bit of a fixer-upper: a 2.6 million dollar McMansion which needs work. Best of luck with that, guys. As for myself, I am holding out for Ambassador Hall, with the extra cool walkway. (Yes, I know Marantha is using it, inasmuch as it is part of the disgusting wings Armstrong added.) Or I may go for the Hall of AD--one of the few buildings in Pasadena with air conditioning that actually works.
I can dream, can't I?
Mark Lax
There was a rule in Delmar that a student could not have more than three things on their desk at any one time. This was cool because all you needed was a bible, a marker and umm...oh yeah, The Genesis flood by Whitcomb and Morris
Once I had both feet feet up on desk and the monitor came in and said that made five things and to put my feet down.
I love that building man!
eeeeerp. DD
My offer for the place is based on my "Carlton Sheets late nite infomercial Real Estate Course"...
* $1 Down
* $1 A Month
* For 2.6 Million Months.
Call me the Donald Trump of the COG!
I am prepared to counter offer Tkach's counter offer!
Bill Lussenheide, Menifee, CA USA
In some ways Manor Del Mar was the nicest place I have ever lived. The first floor lounge was a beautiful place. I also spent many nights in the summer of 1968 or 1969 out on the roof drinking beer and listening to Vin Scully broadcast Los Angeles Dodgers baseball games. (You had to crawl out a window to get onto the roof.)
Those Californian Real Estate agents have got a nerve. Sure, it was once a nice upper scale house but a bit weak when compared to eastern & midwestern gild-age mansions which can be had for a fraction of that price. Delmar's ceilings are rather low, the exterior & roof of low quality and the lister admits that the interior has been ruined but "can be fixed" . Sure, but it would cost more than it's worth - which is half what they're asking if they're lucky.
minimalist said...
Those Californian Real Estate agents have got a nerve. Sure, it was once a nice upper scale house but a bit weak when compared to eastern & midwestern gild-age mansions which can be had for a fraction of that price. Delmar's ceilings are rather low, the exterior & roof of low quality and the lister admits that the interior has been ruined but "can be fixed" . Sure, but it would cost more than it's worth - which is half what they're asking if they're lucky.
Are you serious? Del Mar is a California craftsman era classic!
I don't believe its a Green and Green design but its certainly in that genre.
That thing is filled with rare woods and exquisite woodworking craftsmanship.
I bet you the "fixer upper" part is a very expensive earthquake retrofit to bring it up to current earthquake codes.
And, oh yeah, its probably a registered historical building so forget putting a condo on that land.
How can he afford to place an ad on there? COG faithful flock must really be a giving bunch. They can send some my way if they want...
Make it out to COG Unfaithful flock, that way, I can stick it in my personal bank account...
"The History of God's Church" -- the picture is the Seventh Day Baptist Meeting House in Newport, RI Yes, it is empty. If I am correct, it hasn't been used for church services in years. It was physically moved from it's original location and attached to the back of the Newport Historical Society building. I remember a donation box at the entrance for those who wish to contribute to help maintain this historical property.
Delete the above post. It was posted in error.
For all those who are still unaware of why the campus and other properties were sold-off for pennies on the dollar, you should be aware that WCG purchased Azusa-Pacific University, located just steps away from the current Financial Way location of WCG headquarters on a semi-private street at Glendora,CA.
Flush with cash by liquidating worldwide bank accounts, WCG had no use for the aging earthquake damaged Ambassador Campus at Big Sandy or Pasadena. Instead of wasting precious resources maintaining the aging structures, Tkach, saw the opportunity to land the APU deal.
Since acquisition APU has flourished. The once trailer park college has used the Ambassador Center cash to become a major player in Southern California.
Because WCG is a "C" corporation as can be confirmed at the California Secretary of State web site, that is owned by "an unknown and unnamed association," therefore the REAL OWNERS of WCG cannot be determined, it is unclear about the details of price but one thing is certain, the same owners of WCG also now own APU.
The secret arangement has been kept under wraps, but all the answers are contained in the WCG/APU association.
By knowing this, members can now understand why it was necessary to "EMPTY THE CHURCH," of its members in order to minimize opposition to the acquisition.
By law, a 501(C) corporation as WCG is, cannot just "GO OUT OF BUSINESS," they have to place their assets into ANOTHER 501(c) CORPORATION.
I was not opposed to WCG becoming a mainstream Christian Church, however, Tkach and the boys had no right to use members' tithes and offerings to finance their expansion.
"WCG purchased Azusa-Pacific University"
Uh, what have you been smoking? WCG has (or had) a minor affiliation with Azusa... but own it? Not likely!
Look up your favorite cult here.
Here is wild bills cult
Of all the men's residences in which I lived at AC, Del Mar was the poshest. The "Ambassador Experience" offered some very diverse living conditions. Funky (Olcott Place), mainstream type apartments (80 South Grand), restored luxury (380 Grove), and total opulence (Del Mar).
Some of my guitar buddies and I used to get together in a kind of a rec room in the basement at Del Mar. While living there, I also got ratted on for drinking 3 Colt-45 tall boys in one setting with my weight lifting buddies. Believe it or not, we actually gave one to the guy who eventually ratted on us!
And then, there was the guy who hac been counselled by the college nurse to annoint his entire body with vinegar prior to going to bed! That really stunk up the dorm. We never did find out why this was prescribed. Probably had something to do with HWA's book on the New Morality.
I made an attempt to climb the palm trees with telephone linemen's equipment, adjacent to Del Mar. This was for a "Unique Experience Speech". I got about halfway up before freezing up, but my buddy, a Canadian lumberjack, made it all the way to the top!
It was embarrassing, because I'd grown up climbing trees that were equally as tall, but those all had branches.
I think there was an old safe in Del Mar that nobody had ever been able to crack the combination for, too. It was tried many times by students when they first moved in.
It was fun working for the gardening crew with Del Mar as one's area, too. Very rich, horticulturally speaking.
BB
One would think that these perky real estate agents would understand the difference between "architectural" and "architect", especially as applied to H.W. Thompson. Tudor/craftsman may seem a contradiction in terms, but it was a means of fusing a historical element (the Tudor) with the modern (then) Craftman movement.
Perhaps the most famous building of the Craftsman period is the Gamble house by Greene and Greene. It lies just up the street on Orange Grove Blvd., and is periodically used in motion picture productions. You might recall it as being "Doc's" house in the Back to the Future movies.
As for Manor Del Mar, the address is so new that it doesn't show up in the LA County's assessors page. Seems that the sale of the campus has started a wholesale re-parcelization in certain areas and the records have yet to catch up.
The campus was not always well served by the newer buildings. The first time I saw the Loma D. buildings west of Ambassador Hall I was shocked to see the streaks of grime the rain had left on the honeycomb precast concrete facade. There are ways to keep that from happening - what a rookie mistake to not take precautions and have everyone view it!
I would hope that the buyer spends some time (as well as money) to wisely do the repairs this place needs. The pictures on the link show some great old finishes and spaces and I hope the rest of it can be restored to a similar level.
I also understand that the campus provided heat and cooling to the various buildings from central plants. Much more efficient that way, but I expect that means MDM needs a new Trane or two (or three). Add that to the earthquake strengthening, new interior finishes, appliances, and furnishings and the total cost of the venture can run to twice what the listing price is.
But then again, you can spend $5 million for a non-descript condo of less than half the size, and no grounds to putter around in.
KMS
byker bob wrote:
"Some of my guitar buddies and I used to get together in a kind of a rec room in the basement at Del Mar. While living there, I also got ratted on for drinking 3 Colt-45 tall boys in one setting with my weight lifting buddies. Believe it or not, we actually gave one to the guy who eventually ratted on us!"
Yep, Bob, that was the Elephant Room, if I remember correctly over the haze of thirty-five years (I was resident on first floor Del Mar in '71-'72). Named such because of the elephant statue (or was it more than one?) in the room.
During my time (without graduating, just like my buddy byker bob!) at AC, I only lived in Del Mar and in Grove Terrace. GT was comfy and convenient, and I don't knock it, but Del Mar was wonderful. It wasn't air-conditioned back in those years, but there aren't usually too many hot nights in the L.A. basin, and back then, most of us hadn't grown up with A/C and therefore didn't really have to adjust to open-air sleeping. And my dorm mates that first year were a very wacked-out crew; I thank whatever powers that be that they were my first-year dorm buddies.
As to the Elephant Room: one night, in a year after I was resident there (and, I guess, having turned twenty-one--like I ever let THAT stop me from getting hold of fermented beverages!), I was feeling kind of low for some reason. My buddy Ed (who had lived in first-floor Del Mar with me previously) and I picked up a bottle of Christian Brothers Napa Rose and decided to plop down to the Elephant Room in the Del Mar basement. Ed didn't want any of the wine, so I drank the whole thing myself. I think it was the first time I'd ever drunk a full bottle of wine.
My depressed feeling went right out the window!
Manor Del Mar holds a tremendous amount of fond memories for me. I hope that whoever winds up buying it brings it back to its past glory.
Of course, part of that past glory includes competitions among some of my dorm mates on who could most effectively, er, demonstrate flatulence. Yes, AC students were the cream of the crop in the old WCG...:-)
One more thing: by the time that I arrived in August of 1971, there was no rule that I can recall that limited us to three items on the desk top. In fact, our desks could get pretty messy!
"But why Charlotte, which, if my poor knowledge of US geography is adequate, is quite some distance from Modesto? Surely Don isn't trying to poach members from Meredith's LCG and the Ritenbaugh Church of the Great God, both based in Charlotte?"
Gavin, it's more than "quite some distance"; it's more than 2600 miles. Nearly coast-to-coast.
Did the real estate agent , Ms Lu Gordon, just say that that AC wrecked the bathrooms and kitchen ? Restoration for that period is never cost effective.
But nice of her to provide a convenient mortgage caculation for her bargain price : just $13k a month and don't forget to add another $2k a month for property taxes. Perhaps there's someone in La La Land who would like to rent it for the $15k a month in its present F'Up condition ?
Maybe we should call it Manor Del Marred
The California Secretary of State is where you want to look:
http://www.sos.ca.gov/business/corp/corp_irc.htm#geninfo
Here’s the search page: http://kepler.sos.ca.gov/list.html
There are a dozen varieties of “Worldwide Church of God,” and Mathew Morgan is the agent for service for 9 of them.
Unfortunately there’s not a lot of information available. The first link explains what is and isn’t public record in California.
Under how to dissolve a corporation:
http://www.sos.ca.gov/business/corp/corp_faq.htm
If the dissolving corporation is a nonprofit public benefit or religious corporation, the Certificate of Dissolution must also be accompanied by a letter issued by the Attorney General that either waives objections to the distribution of the corporation's assets pursuant to Corporations Code section 6716(c) or confirms that the corporation has no assets. A written request for the required letter can be mailed to the Office of the Attorney General - Registrar of Charitable Trusts at P.O. Box 903447, Sacramento, California 94203-4470. Questions regarding the issuance of the required letter must be directed to the Office of the Attorney General - Registrar of Charitable Trusts at (916) 445-2021.
BB,
Here following is the listing for the mother of all WCG corporations that were formed after that, the California WCG Religious Corporation formed in 1947 by Armstrong. This is the corporation the Painful Truth website has most of the the change in constitutions and articles documented made over the years by Armstrong, including the unexplained questionable voting method the WCG board recorded, approving changing the name from Radio Church of God to Worldwide Church of God:
WORLDWIDE CHURCH OF GOD
Number: C0214334 Date Filed: 2/20/1947 Status: active
Jurisdiction: California
Address
2011 E FINANCIAL WAY
GLENDORA, CA 91741-4602
Agent for Service of Process
MATHEW H MORGAN
2011 E FINANCIAL WAY
GLENDORA, CA 91741-4602
Most of the other corporations there on the list were formed as California corporations under Tkach for the churches in those cities and states within the last decade, and have Matthew Morgan down as the agent for service of process on those corporations.
Stan
Stan:
Is there a chance that you could redraft this post. I read it twice and I can only speculate on what you are trying to convey.
This is meant to be constructive.
-- Neo
BB,
There are three main sections of the California Corporation Code that govern the WCG church affiliated entities under discussion; generally, see these sections and subsections of the California Code:
California Corporations Code:
Section 9000 - Dealing with California Nonprofit Religious Corporations
9620-9621 Amendment of Articles
9680-Dissolution of the Nonprofit Religious Corporation
Section 10000-10015 Corporation Sole
10012- Procedures involving Dissolution of the Corporate Sole
Section 18000-18020 Unincorporated Associations
18410-18420 Dissolution of the Unincorporated Association
This unincorporated association section deals with unincorporated associations. As in for instance, WCG corporate bylaws with particularity refer to another entity "The WCG, an unincorporated association".
The unincorporated association has control over the whole ball of wax - the nonprofit church corporation, the college, the foundation, ect.
That can change.
Tkach has stated in the latest WCG policy manual these unincorporated association bylaws which make him Pastor General over the association are supposed to be modified, but so far Armstrong's original bylaws for the unincorporated association have yet to be disclosed.
Stan
Camfinch,
How could I have forgotten the horrible flatus problem in all of the AC men's dorms??? I used to keep my Old Spice cologne right on my desktop for when some of the guys would get to going. We were constantly having dorm meetings about self-control, but it NEVER did any good. I wonder if this was also a problem in the women's dorms.
It must have been hilarious for eavesdropping ministers when HWA had all of the dorms on campus electronically bugged. They'd be listening in for the latest subversive activity, and hear what Chaucer might have called "rolling thunderclaps" instead.
BB
Neo,
Bamboo wrote:
"There are a dozen varieties of “Worldwide Church of God,” and Mathew Morgan is the agent for service for 9 of them."
My point was to clarify for him which of those 9 corporations he found in the listings was the first corporation formed by Armstrong. To my knowledge, it was the California nonprofit church corporation formed in 1947.
All of the other Armstrong church corporations, college corporations, foundations were formed subsequent to that 1947 act.
Based on what he read at the California Secretary of State website, Bamboo then made a reference to Corporation Code section 6716(c) which deals generally with the dissolution of public nonprofit benefit corporations.
More specific and germane to problems involving the WCG entities are the code sections covering the religious corporation, corporate sole, and unincorporated association forms of organization under California law.
Anyone can take a look at these corporate law California code sections online at findlaw.com
How's that - any clearer?
Stan
I went to the California Secretary of State web link, and did the search for "WORLDWIDE CHURCH OF GOD"
All those instances of "Morgan" as "Agent for Service of Process" have either the name "MATHEW H MORGAN" or "MATHEW MORGAN"
However, searching Google for that name shows no lawyers unless the spelling "Matthew" (with two t's) is used.
Here's a link to a profile of a lawyer by that name.
Would it be legal for a lawyer to mis-spell his first name on paperwork for documents referenced above? I don't know, I'd have to ask a lawyer, lol!
What's "clear" to me is that in spite of Joe jr's rhetoric, the last thing he wants is to have the financial dealings of the church that he's dictator of made "clear"
Transparency would be incriminating to him, so he clings to and promulgates a bunch more of the convoluted fiscal hiding.
This one has me puzzled.
Ambassador International Cultural Foundation is defunct, but I don't remember Tkach saying anything about forming a new "Ambassador Foundation" April 19, 1996, or Matthew Morgan mentioning it for that matter!
Corporation
AMBASSADOR FOUNDATION
Number: C1966789 Date Filed: 4/19/1996 Status: active
Jurisdiction: California
Address
2011 E FINANCIAL WAY
GLENDORA, CA 91741-4602
Agent for Service of Process
MATHEW MORGAN
2011 E FINANCIAL WAY
GLENDORA, CA 91741-4602
Stan
After a bit more fact-checking.... (I have been asked to withhold attribution for the following paragraphs, but it comes from a historically very reliable source).
Reading between the lines of what my friend wrote, it looks like our poster is making the same mistake those who started the receivership 1979 did, asking the wrong questions, in attempt to get court intervention going.
Or as someone told me in 1996 about the whole receivership thing, "....they went after public contractual transactions between HWA and Rader, yet never asked the real question, what was HWA doing with the money he was getting.... these people never ask the right questions".
My source also makes a very good point about "emptying the church".
The trick of course is asking the RIGHT questions. WCGers and Ex-WCGers often don't think like HWA did and what he would use that money for....
BTW Matthew Morgan was an AC student when I was a student. A fairly nice guy, a bit like the Pacey character in Dawson's creek, very similar personality to that guy. I guess he must be a lawyer now.
My friend writes:
---------------------------
“.....rubbish (never understood why the make-believe artists equate selling things for “pennies on the dollar” especially after a protracted sales effort with being “flush with cash”, but the 1979 suit alleged liquidating assets below Fair Market Value in order to enrich the sellers). Go figure.
Also, a quick check with the Cal Secretary of State shows that the WCG corp is the same corp that was originally formed as the Radio Church of God in 2/20/1947. It is patently not a “C” corp but an “F” corp, though the author of the blog [posting] would be oblivious to the distinction.
As for Azuza Pacific University being “for sale” or able to be purchased, you go try “purchasing” an active charity. The Ambassador Center at Azuz Pacific University is more than dwarfed by their other, long-standing programs (massive understatement).
APU has been on the map in their sphere for quite some time.
Also, “emptying the church” is more of a prescription for maximizing opposition rather than minimizing it.
Member don’t vote on such issues, or hasn’t anyone noticed.”
That's funny. Here's a Matthew R Morgan who has an "R" for a middle initial.
Matthew R & Pamela J Morgan
1203 E Mountain View Ave Glendora, CA 91741-3147
phone number unavailable
Will the real Mathew H. Morgan please stand up?
why is the first response to kill the messenger? the issue about APU and WCG is a REAL one!
i also went to cal sec. of state web site and it says wcg is a "C" corp. there isn't an "F" corp listed. http:kepler.ss.ca.gov/corpdata/ShowList.
i don't pretend to have special knowledge, but all the roads have finally led to glendora,ca! there are legitimate questions to be answered!
Stan is a very knowledgeable man and i hope he will keep digging here!
as for APU dwarfing WCG, i think mike wallace spoke to that when he revealed that WCG took in more then $100 million a year for more than 10 years! Also, in the year following hwa's death, wcg pulled in a cool $250 million, its biggest year! APU could hardly touch that, and APU was a small struggling college with no financial backers who could match armstrong.
the point is, something happened that triggered a massive and expensive P.R. campaign that was designed to have ONLY ONE EFFECT, "empty the church!" What that was i don't know, but the aftermath is sitting in glendora, ca.
today, i am free of armstrongism, and i hope all who were ensnared can escape it. but the truth is that tkach and the boys took something that didn't belong to them and they lied to get it.
Here's another currently active 1966 corporation, but with different numbers:
RADIO CHURCH OF GOD
Number: C0519529 Date Filed: 12/22/1966 Status: active
Jurisdiction: California
Address
2011 E FINANCIAL WAY
GLENDORA, CA 91741
Agent for Service of Process
MATHEW MORGAN
2011 E FINANCIAL WAY
GLENDORA, CA 91741
"today, i am free of armstrongism, and i hope all who were ensnared can escape it. but the truth is that tkach and the boys took something that didn't belong to them and they lied to get it."
My read of what happened after the death of HWA is that the Tkach group emptied the church out in order to CASH OUT the WCG business. They probably knew that multiple unorganized groups would emerge that could not coordinate a consolidated challenge of the WCG asset liquidations that were designed to enrich the owners.
The WCG is a shell of its former self in order to provide employment income and "something to do" for a few people (hey, it beats working for a living), and also must continue to exist legally in order to collect on all those estates of members that I remember as a boy WCG ministers telling members annually to write WCG in their wills. You don't think there are some unchanged wills naming WCG as beneficiary after all these years?
Tkach only followed the business philosophy of Herbert Armstrong which I have posted on this site several times : "If you want to dine with the upper classes, you must lie to the masses".
Richard
byker bob wrote:
"How could I have forgotten the horrible flatus problem in all of the AC men's dorms??? I used to keep my Old Spice cologne right on my desktop for when some of the guys would get to going. We were constantly having dorm meetings about self-control, but it NEVER did any good. I wonder if this was also a problem in the women's dorms."
Well, it might be interesting to ask a couple of long-time women friends who were at AC when I was about how crude the women's dorms got...yeah, I just might have to ask them!
I was told by two or three of my Del Mar mates that one evening (I was somewhere else at the time) those two or three had been at their desks studying, but also engaging in a flatulence display. They were shocked when one of the professors/ministers entered the formal living room just outside the study area! The study windows were open, and my buddies were desperately trying to wave the scent of the room outside! If the faculty guy (not sure who it was, maybe Bob Oberlander) detected anything, he didn't let on!
D said...
why is the first response to kill the messenger? the issue about APU and WCG is a REAL one!
Unless I am being lied to, the APU story is bogus.
Yet again, I reiterate, you're asking the wrong questions. Ask the right questions and you are on to something.
Unfortunately I don't know what that question is. But I know when I am supposed to read between the lines.
Camfinch,
In your day, did any of the flatulent ones ever attempt to ignite their gas, or record it on their tape recorders?
I tell you, if the manpower committee had known half of the stuff that went on in the dorms! At times I felt that the place should have been called Amgassador College! None of this was ever hinted at or foretold by the Envoys or College Bulletin!
BB
Good points Richard. I agree. Perhaps Stan can correct me, but I believe the point of "selling below market value," and making money is understandable because the houses sold were originally gifts, therefore it isn't "below value" to to the recipient of the gift. And since the Ricipient received property he was not entitled to because the property actually was purchased with tithe money meant for something else, then there is a case for fraud or even embezelment.
Bamboo Bends makes a good point, but until the anonymous source is identified I have to side with the group investigating Azusa-Pacific. There are to many coincidences in that area of WCG transactions to be ignored.
This much we know, WCG went on a spending spree and a selling spree at the same time. They pumped us up with illogical rationale about selling a billion dollar campus because we "don't need it anymore."
Today, Russell Duke and at least three other high ranking WCG personnel are employed at APU.
Tkach,Rogers,Fezeal, and others received PHD's from APU for doing nothing more than having books ghost written for them.
Ambasssador pumped "MILLIONS" of dollars into APU. At the same time, APU went on a building and land acquisition spree. Public records show this for all to see.
Today, WCG sits just feet from APU land, if not directly on it.
Tkach lied over and over again about the new location.
APU was almost bankrupt in the early ninties and in fact held an emergency board meeting and replaced the entire board as was posted on their web site.
If Tkach didn't buy it, then he certainly invested in APU.
Stan, I hope you keep digging. Though it doesn't matter, I sure hope the truth comes out so former WCG members will be vindicated. They didn't leave the Church, the Church was taken from them
byker bob wrote:
"In your day, did any of the flatulent ones ever attempt to ignite their gas, or record it on their tape recorders?"
I can't recall that happening, although one of my first-year mates (who, BB, you knew because he also worked at the bindery--a fellow from Ohio of Italian nationality) had previously been at a Catholic seminary, and he said some of the seminary guys would try to ignite their gas, and that one of them was injured when the flame went, er, back into the source of the gas...
Camfinch,
Do you have any contact with our old bindery buddy? I think he'd be an interesting one to compare notes with!
BB
D said....I also went to cal sec. of state web site and it says wcg is a "C" corp. there isn't an "F" corp listed.
The phrase "C corp" is from the Internal Revenue Code (described in subchapter C, wihich begins with section 301 of the IRC). S corps are described in subchapter S (beginning in section 1361). A "501(c)(3)" charity is from subchapter F. the "C" designation on the Cal web site only means that the entity is a corporation in California, not whether it is a C, S, or F corp as those terms are commonly (mis)used.
Anonymous said...
Today, Russell Duke and at least three other high ranking WCG personnel are employed at APU.
Tkach,Rogers,Fezeal, and others received PHD's from APU for doing nothing more than having books ghost written for them.
They also took courses there for years and were denigrated as liberals for doing so!
Ambasssador pumped "MILLIONS" of dollars into APU. At the same time, APU went on a building and land acquisition spree. Public records show this for all to see.
Azusa Pacific University has "faith centers" of a number of different denominations, for example the Methodists have one. You can see on their web site various religious groups have combined efforts at APU over the last 50 years. Ambassador is one of the smaller ones.
APU has extension campuses, there's one in Mission Valley in San Diego.
They seemed to have adopted a model similar to the University of Phoenix in that regard.
I still think its not where the cash is going. But it deserves watching.
Gotta learn to ask the right questions. WWJTJrD?
Stan,
its just a wild idea, but could Tkach,Jr. be the son of an Armstrong?
I catch the drift of the question anonymous, but does WWJTJrD? mean WHAT WAS JOE TKACH JR. DOING?
This is a cryptic clue that should be looked into. Both are legitimate questions.
The truth is that the THEFT of the Worldwide Church of God and EVERY PENNY OF ITS ASSETS, was the biggest crime in California history.
In front of everyone's nose six men literally TOOK a billion dollar enterprise, and sent its REAL OWNERS, the MEMBERS WHO PAID THE BILLS AND BUILT THE CHURCH PACKING!
But, with their new found allies in Glendora backing them, they used the FALSE FRONT OF RELIGIOUS CONVERSION as a SMOKESCREEN to make it seem "AS IF," AN ENTIRE CHURCH HAD CHANGED ITS RELIGION.
The truth is that only about 10% ACTUALLY APPROVED THE CHANGES! But, the thieves sidled right up to very protestants they had formerly condemned and with the blessings of the Fundalmentalists they acted AS IF the CHURCH had changed.
TRUTH: THE CHURCH DIDN'T CHANGE!
THE CHURCH WAS LOOTED!
The only change was that the CHURCH WAS GAGGED AND THREATENED NOT TO DARE SPEAK AGAINST THE THEFT!
IMAGINE! ROBBERS THREATENING THE VICTIMS OF THE ROBBERY NOT TO SPEAK! WHEN SOME DID SPEAK, THEY WERE QUICKLY DISPATCHED!
I like reading these posts about Del Mar, etc. Most are absolutely wrong, or slanted or down right made up.
I lived in MDM for two years and none of the nonsense mentioned here happened while I was there.
I believe all this happened after the influx of the worldly "morons" who never got the message but came to have a party. Those are the folks today who complain about situations they made up.
I'd love to see an honest story here from someone who really was there and was trying to grow and change and become a better person instead of the silliness being talked about here by those who didn't go there to be better people. That's the really sad part.
Bob
Post a Comment