Rod Meredith visited the churches in southern California this past weekend. His Sabbath sermon at La Crescenta (Los Angeles) was, from what I hear, very harsh. He is very concerned that all 3 churches (L.A., Orange County, San Diego) are falling apart. He gave 5 keys as to why LCG is the true Philadelphian church. He mentioned that a man he used to teach in Bible class is now claiming to be a prophet. This was thought to be a reference to Weinland. He then yelled that anyone to talks badly about LCG or causes trouble in any way by saying anything bad about the ministry will be removed. He was VERY strong. He said that NO ONE is to attend any of the splinters. The threat of disfellowshipment was clearly implied. I left LCG last summer. Rod is right; the churches in southern Cal are falling apart. One big reason in Los Angeles is, in my view, Jim Meredith, Rod's son. He was ordained an elder in the spring of 2006, but his qualifications for the job aren't obvious... Many people left LCG the very day of Jim's ordination, and others left when Jim said things like "If you're not totally with us, you should leave." Another problem in L.A., in my view, is Jeff Fall, the former pastor. His position is that God is sifting out people and Jeff sees it as his job to force that sifting. He seems to deliberately offend people to test their loyalty. Many said hogwash to that and left. The remaining are loyal and blind and non-thinking. The third problem is what is going on at LCG HQ, which has been well-documented on AW. This is pretty much the sole reason for the destruction of the San Diego church from over 50 to under 20.
Anyway, the entire church has become much more cultish on hierarchical government... It is almost to the point that only the dumb sheep are left.
Uh oh. Not the picture of contentedness you'd glean from reading Bob Thiel's blog is it?
80 comments:
Little bratty Jimmy a minister????????? Ghastly Days! That's enough to make me wish Weinerdude's end-time prophecies are really going to happen soon! I feel sorry for those members who have to sit through Jimmy's so called sermons. That clown no more deserves to be a minister than his brother Mike does. Two spoiled rebellious brats that lived a life with a golden spoon in their mouths.
>>>One big reason in Los Angeles is, in my view, Jim Meredith, Rod's son. He was ordained an elder in the spring of 2006, but his qualifications for the job aren't obvious...<<<
Another unclean hireling joins the ranks of the condemned.
Of course, like Garner Ted and Tkach senior, Meredith is strategically positioning his sons to inherit the church, which is supposed to be owned by God.
If all the infighting and divisions were not so tragic, we could all have a good laugh. But God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, and neither should his children.
Tom Mahon said "If all the infighting and divisions were not so tragic, we could all have a good laugh."
MY COMMENT - Wrong again Tom. I'm having a good laugh!
Richard
A pat on the back is only eighteen inches from a kick in the butt.
Something 3-5 Types have never understood. I also expect they have rarely experienced it.
Concepts in the Bible you will have to strain to see.
1 A pat on the back
2 Thank you from myself so much
3 You did a wonderful job
4 That's fine, don't worry about it.
5 I'm so proud of you.
6 It's not a problem. We're all different. Don't worry about it.
7 God doesn't really need your money. I do.
"Encouragement given by an encourager should actually be encouraging to those needing to be encouraged."
me
Let's see...San Diego Co population: 2,941,454
LCG membership: 20
Checking for a pulse....checking....hold.....hmmmmmm......sigh.....shaking head...
I'm sorry for your loss and your impression that the Gospel is being preached to the whole world as a witness so the in-comes. It's just not happening.
RCM has often noted that those who have now become this or that were ministers "that were in his classes," or those "he taught personally."
Of course, he means, "Can you believe that anyone I taught would stray from my clear teachings."
Sadly, and of course, there are other explanations for this.
Oh, just where can a false prophet find loyalty these days? And people are not even leaving because Roderick Meredith is a false prophet. It's hard to say why they are leaving.
Leaving any of the xcGs is a good thing, but having a really good reason for doing it is better. After all, if you leave for the wrong reasons, like, oh, you don't like how harsh and self-righteously narcissistic someone is and he doesn't fit your more modern style, just isn't enough to keep you from going to another xcG. No, leaving because the leader / founder is a false prophet and the people are all idolaters, taking God's Name in vain because of their lusts are much better reasons. If religious, seeking the Will of God would be the best reason because it's obvious that if there is a God, He, She or It would not be pleased for someone to follow after an idolater in his man made religion. That, pretty much, means every last one of the church of gods.
It's interesting that this has been the worst year ever. The church corporate of the xcGs and the WCG have fallen upon the worst times with exposed false prophets [and that's a good thing], to divisions galore, to whole congregations evaporating like the Cheshire cat in Alice in Wonderland.
The very next thing to become a problem, may very well be the economics of the United States. Have any of these tiny little groups, no larger than 18,000 ever considered that this could be their very last Feast ever [if they even make it there this year] because of air fares and gasoline prices? And even the hotel / motel prices? And the food prices? As Daniel would say, the handwriting is on the wall. The days of wine and roses is over.
So after all is said and done, when you reach the restaurant at the end of the universe, it really wasn't worth it.
And not a place of safety on the radar.
Speaking of Bob Theil, is he or his website subsidized by LCG? If so, he doesn't seem to admit it.
Publius
If Rod really wanted to punish the LA churches, he should have sent his sister, Katherine Ames, to play violin for special music.
Tom Mahon said
"... the church, which is supposed to be owned by God."
"If all the infighting and divisions were not so tragic,..."
Good points Tom.
Tom Mahon said
"... the church, which is supposed to be owned by God."
Name one with humans that God is tickled pink over and the proud sponsor of?
I get the impression that most weekly "sabbath" services are gatherings or 20 people or less, including the old folks that are nodding off through most of the sermon and the children that are forced to endure it.
armstrongism is dying a slow death...but at least it is dying. There are fewer people around that will stand for constantly putting of the end of the age 3-5 years at a time.
Someone here made a point about the cost of going to the feast. At four bucks a gallon it is a little over an hour's ride, one way for my folks to go to church and an hour and a half when they have to go to "combined" services in Pennsylvania. I foot the bill for their gas so I know how much it costs. They would be better off teleconferencing...At least you could hit the mute button and add your own commentary. Sadly, I think they hold onto armstrongism because it is my mother's social life and my father, well he believes he 'knows' things. It is heartbreaking to say the least.
Wineland curses others with Cancer. Dave Packster calls Wineland demon posessed. Spanky tells his sheep "NO ONE is to attend any of the splinters"........
Can't you just FEEL the Love???
Hey, Jim Meredith may not be perfect, but he is a decent man who has served the church well for years. I could spend hours telling of all the work he and his wife have done for the church. As for Jeff Fall, he was a good pastor in Los Angeles for years, and you won't find a better family man anywhere in the churches of God. I'm through with this vitriol spewed out on AW.
Causes of Death listed for the COG's
Obnoxia
Theo-sclerosis
Myofacial-farcis
A-phoneyia
Apostolic-myalgia
Satanosis
Neuro-theo-nostalgis
Hellitosis
Sinaiaticus-buttosis
Dung Fever
Hemo-eucharosis
Nospine-alosis
Jesusdiditosis
Multiple-divosis
Mega-egosis
Enlargement of the Buttidcus-capitus musculature
multi-carnalis-pastoris
Narsso-sarcosis
other diagnosis for cause of Necro-COG-atosis are welcome
See ya douglasyo! Lets see if your a man of your word. Good by and please dont come back!!!
Douglasyo said, "I'm through with this vitriol spewed out on AW".
Yeah, Tom Mahon essentially said the same thing about two months ago. We all said "good riddins" to him, but he returned to AW to post his meaningless dribble.
At least you didn't promise to post your picture on the internet after insulting a Dennis Diehl photo like Tom did. Otherwise, we would have to call you a liar like Tom.
Surprisinggod-ablowsis
Rectalretain-itis
Boringsermatosis
Shotmeinthefoot-atosis
Biblemyalgia
Bookletmyalgia
Hannagrafitis
Packacolon-itis
Timeain'tshortatall-myalgia
Thermo-pneumo-cytosis
Fullabullonis
Betternyou cytosis
Chronic fatigue
Not sure of the numbers, but the CGOM in Tulsa usually has over a hundred in attendance
I'm confused!?!?!
The following statement is a "cut and paste" excerpt from this Dr. Thiel's website/current webpage regarding the false profit (oops, I mean prophet)Ron Weinland.
EXCERPT FROM THIEL:
Because here is what the Bible teaches about self-appointed false prophets:
…when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him (Deuteronomy 18:22).
What Ronald Weinland has been predicting for years simply has not come to pass.
END OF EXCERPT
Why doesn't this Dr. Thiel apply this same scripture to HWA and to RCM? I remember RCM saying "5 more years" in the 1960s, and apparently he has been saying 3-5 more years ever since. Why doesn't this scripture apply to RCM?
Dr. Thiel, if you are out there trolling, please answer. The public wants to know.
Richard
Gavin,
In response to your blog posting, I sympathize with your apparent frustration. It's a tragic waste that people will persist in following a charlatan.
Unfortunately, they truly are victims. People who manage to come out from under this stuff are survivors.
We've all been on this battlefield and it's a horrible fact that not everyone will make it out alive.
Mickey
Oops! Sorry I meant to post the above comment on the Weinland comment. (apparently I'm only a partially functioning survivor:)
Mickey
Anonymous said: "Not sure of the numbers, but the CGOM in Tulsa usually has over a hundred in attendance"
--> It takes a high and a low to make an average.
Douglasyo: I heard a lot of unkind things said about specific people, organizations, and religions from a WCG pulpit so your complaint about vitriol doesn't wash. Also, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
Prophecy: Honest it's in the book, somewhere.
" Babbalonus 6
:2: A short work will I make out of the church. 3-5max x5, maybe 8-10, 15 at the most, no more than 20, send it in.
3: And I mean it fellows and girls.
4: For it's God, Christ, Now me as Presiding Evangelist and a few other leading evangelists not to be name.
5: And then shall the end come for those that strayed from my teaching, if you can believe that.
6: For I AM the Rod of iron."
Is that Tom M's picture at the top of this posting? About as I'd expect.
From Rod Meredith's lecture to the Principles of Living class (aka, the sex class, in some regards), Ambassador College-Pasadena, college year 1971-72:
"You girls think that if a fellow is holding you in his arms and kissing you, that he's having all these sweet romantic thoughts about you. You don't realize, girls, that all he's really thinking about is how he wants to RAM his penis into your vagina!"
Fancy being Rod's wife?
After class that day, we "fellows" felt a bit embarrassed and uncomfortable around the "girls". Apparently later on that day, in a quiet room off of the library, one of the "girls" was on her own, and then a certain junior-class student who worked as a security guard came into the room. She felt nervous, from what the Rod of God had said that day. She finally asked him, "Is it really true what Dr. Meredith said? [Apparently, he had been told of Meredith's lecture.] Is THAT really all you guys think about?"
To which he replied: "No, of course not! Sometimes we think about food!"
emerods or as they say in the south M R Rods, they sure are.
oh camfinch..them memories, the memories!!!!!!
Merredith is an idiot. He is a sex-obsessed idiot. All he is ever known for is his sex-laden rants at college. Armstrong needed followers early on, and look who straggled along---Merredith.
I am deeply embarrassed to have gone to this college.
"I am deeply embarrassed to have gone to this college."
Hmmm, Anonymous, then I take it you aren't rushing out to get registered for Rod's online Living University? You know, just like old AC, LU seeks to "recapture true values". :-)
I am not embarrased, myself, to have gone to AC so long ago. It is true that the only academic material of worth that I learned was strictly from the non-theology classes, and the academic standards generally were pretty Mickey Mouse. But I made a lot of friends, and have reconnected with a fair number of them (almost all of them now ex-COG) over the last ten or eleven years, and we still have certain bonds that are rather unique. I always have to wonder what my life would've been like if I had gone to a college/university in the "world" after I finished high school, instead of having taken that United Airlines Boeing 727 from Greensboro, NC to smoggy, sprawling Southern California in August '71.
The good things about having been at AC included the opportunities to see a lot of the western U.S., and over the next few years to make a number of cross-country trips, coast-to-coast.
Another thing I wonder about (and anyone else out there who went to AC/AU directly out of high school, as a church kid, feel free to make comment on this): if I had indeed gone to a "worldly" college, would I have kept my guard up a lot more, trying to ensure that my mind wouldn't be "tainted" by "wrong" education? Would it have made me a more conservative member of WCG? It's a good point to ponder, because at AC I was (for awhile) sure that I was at "God's college", and was in a "spiritually safe" environment. So I relaxed over time--and by my sophomore year, or certainly early junior (I never officially became a senior at AC), I considered myself a "liberal"; still more-or-less loyal to HWA et. al., but feeling much more ready to privately disagree with some things. Of course, once I got to that point, I was really starting down the gradual path to escape from the authoritarian jaws of the COG.
Witnessing such ridiculous rants from folks like Meredith and Armstrong certainly helped to put me on that path. One early incident was when HWA got back into town from one of his meaningless world trips, and apparently was informed that underclass students were increasingly tending to go steady, or at least to date/hang out too frequently. For those of you who don't know, dating policy, which might shift somewhat over time, was generally that freshman and sophomore men should not have more than two dates a semester with any one woman. Junior guys were still not to get engaged, but it was usually accepted that they could start "hunting". Senior men could go steady and get engaged (after proper ministerial counseling). For women, generally freshmen and sophomores shouldn't go steady, but exceptions were sometimes made if the object of affection was a senior guy. Junior and senior women were "fair game" for male seniors to pursue. (Keeping in mind that we're only talking about individuals of the same "race".)
Anyway, so Herbert got back to Pasadena and led the student assembly one afternoon, venting and raging and foaming about all this "going steady" and frequent dating between underclassmen. Where we had been under a two-dates-a-semester rule, he squelched it down to ONE...and a date wasn't just actually going out for a date; even an extended conversation with someone at the dinner table or walking across campus also constituted a "date" as far as he was concerned. (Actually, that rule never was particularly enforced to my knowledge; I think the Dean of Students and Dean of Women both felt that it was a bit silly.) After that assembly, we went to the Student Center for dinner. It was interesting to see how most of the tables that evening were either all-male or all-female! No one wanted to risk using up their date quota!
As for me? I sat down at a table where all the other students were women! So I guess I had five simultaneous dates!
Memories, yes...
"I am deeply embarrassed to have gone to this college."
Hmmm, Anonymous, then I take it you aren't rushing out to get registered for Rod's online Living University? You know, just like old AC, LU seeks to "recapture true values". :-)
I am not embarrased, myself, to have gone to AC so long ago. It is true that the only academic material of worth that I learned was strictly from the non-theology classes, and the academic standards generally were pretty Mickey Mouse. But I made a lot of friends, and have reconnected with a fair number of them (almost all of them now ex-COG) over the last ten or eleven years, and we still have certain bonds that are rather unique. I always have to wonder what my life would've been like if I had gone to a college/university in the "world" after I finished high school, instead of having taken that United Airlines Boeing 727 from Greensboro, NC to smoggy, sprawling Southern California in August '71.
The good things about having been at AC included the opportunities to see a lot of the western U.S., and over the next few years to make a number of cross-country trips, coast-to-coast.
Another thing I wonder about (and anyone else out there who went to AC/AU directly out of high school, as a church kid, feel free to make comment on this): if I had indeed gone to a "worldly" college, would I have kept my guard up a lot more, trying to ensure that my mind wouldn't be "tainted" by "wrong" education? Would it have made me a more conservative member of WCG? It's a good point to ponder, because at AC I was (for awhile) sure that I was at "God's college", and was in a "spiritually safe" environment. So I relaxed over time--and by my sophomore year, or certainly early junior (I never officially became a senior at AC), I considered myself a "liberal"; still more-or-less loyal to HWA et. al., but feeling much more ready to privately disagree with some things. Of course, once I got to that point, I was really starting down the gradual path to escape from the authoritarian jaws of the COG.
Witnessing such ridiculous rants from folks like Meredith and Armstrong certainly helped to put me on that path. One early incident was when HWA got back into town from one of his meaningless world trips, and apparently was informed that underclass students were increasingly tending to go steady, or at least to date/hang out too frequently. For those of you who don't know, dating policy, which might shift somewhat over time, was generally that freshman and sophomore men should not have more than two dates a semester with any one woman. Junior guys were still not to get engaged, but it was usually accepted that they could start "hunting". Senior men could go steady and get engaged (after proper ministerial counseling). For women, generally freshmen and sophomores shouldn't go steady, but exceptions were sometimes made if the object of affection was a senior guy. Junior and senior women were "fair game" for male seniors to pursue. (Keeping in mind that we're only talking about individuals of the same "race".)
Anyway, so Herbert got back to Pasadena and led the student assembly one afternoon, venting and raging and foaming about all this "going steady" and frequent dating between underclassmen. Where we had been under a two-dates-a-semester rule, he squelched it down to ONE...and a date wasn't just actually going out for a date; even an extended conversation with someone at the dinner table or walking across campus also constituted a "date" as far as he was concerned. (Actually, that rule never was particularly enforced to my knowledge; I think the Dean of Students and Dean of Women both felt that it was a bit silly.) After that assembly, we went to the Student Center for dinner. It was interesting to see how most of the tables that evening were either all-male or all-female! No one wanted to risk using up their date quota!
As for me? I sat down at a table where all the other students were women! So I guess I had five simultaneous dates!
Memories, yes...
>>Yeah, Tom Mahon essentially said the same thing about two months ago.<<
Essentially? What does that mean? Did I say the same thing or not?
>>At least you didn't promise to post your picture on the internet after insulting a Dennis Diehl photo like Tom did.<<
I never insulted Dennis because of his photo. I made a humorous comment about being there for the beer, but Dennis appeared to be highly offended.
Also, because I have not yet posted a photo of me on my blog, doesn't mean that I am not going to do so. What you need is patience, but you could preempt me by posting one of yourself.
Ramrod's uncle C. Paul Meredith was an early member of the Radio Church of God, and writer for the PT in the 1950s/1960s before he died.
Tired Skeptic said:Have any of these tiny little groups, no larger than 18,000 ever considered that this could be their very last Feast ever??
Yes, but it will be "The Best Feast Ever!"
Little Tommy muttered,
Also, because I have not yet posted a photo of me on my blog, doesn't mean that I am not going to do so.
Your a lying SOB Tommy. You have no intentions of doing so. Liar.
Tom, we need to talk!
Tommy your my type of man or wimp. Depends on ones perspective. So let us speak together and cut a deal! And NO, you get behind me and continue to follow ME as you and the rest of COGdumbsheep do! I will give you three cities to rule if you will bow down and worship me using a mirror before your face as a platform of self ideology. Remember how Narcissus had a twin sister? Both dressed similarly and hunted together. Narcissus fell in love with her. When she died, Narcissus pined after her and pretended that the reflection he saw in the water was his sister.
It is the same as Herbert Armstrong. When you see yourself you lust after Herbert by your own reflection and delusions of grandeur. Let us talk!
Gee Tom, how do you rate? Neither Jesus or Satan ever spoke to me. I didn't even know they read AW!
Hi Camfinch,
I went to AC directly after High School with aspirations of continuing on to higher education after AC.
Unfortunately what you described is exactly what happened. My guard was up and the culture shock so great (being with all the unwashed heathens:)) that I only made it through one semester before I gave up in disgust and discouragement.
Something I bitterly regret to this day.
Mickey
Mickey,
I sympathize with you. Did you go all the way through AC before taking that one semester "outside"?
After my AC career sputtered into nothing (frankly, the classes had gotten boring, and I was living off-campus with some other guys), it was years before I ventured into "worldly" academics. When I finally did start a long process of picking up enough credits to finally earn a B.A. (I then went on to get a master's), I had been out of COG-dom long enough that I didn't have too much of a guard up, and quite readily embraced most of my classes.
It also served to keep me mentally "younger". I started my M.A. work at the age of 49, and was a teaching assistant, sharing an office with three other T.A.'s, all of them half my age. It was fun!
Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall, Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All those tithes, er, I mean people, deserting ole Rod would be rather upsetting. Especially since those leaving have the higher intelligence and therefore the bigger pocket books.
Camfinch,
I sincerely applaud you for starting your MA at age 49.
My experience is that the best way to put one's life together (or back together) after the xcg experience is simply to have goals and take the necessary actions every day to get to where you want to go - while remembering to enjoy the journey along the way. After all, you were going to be 49 years old no matter what you did, so you may as well have been 49 and pursuing an MA.
My wife (a Home Economics major at AC) earned batchelor's and master's degrees in electrical engineering after we left the xcg. She was 37 when she got her MSEE.
For all of us, re-claim control and accept total responsibility for your own life from this point forward.
Too preachy...sorry. Just glad to see it when people prosper after xcg.
Paco,
I'm glad for you and your wife, and I appreciate the good words.
For all that I left WCG so many years ago, psychologically it was a major struggle for me to really "escape" Armstrongism/cult mentality. The real process of "getting beyond" started some seven or eight years after I last attended a sabbath service. Starting into "real" college work really helped, but I give the greatest kudos to my wife, whom I met around that time, who tried to understand my COG experience while also firmly pulling me away from all of that.
Which leaves me with the good memories I do have from long ago--a lot of very fine people that I knew (basically the ones who were not part of the power structure), some really good times and great friendships from my times at AC, not to mention the amusing stories about AC life that I sometimes relate here!
Camfinch:
I echo Paco's applause. It makes me so happy to hear of people doing well in XCG-dom
I attended AC for two years. At the time, it seemed a devestating rejection but fortunately, I was turned down for the four year program. (Very good grades, I just failed to suck up to the right people, namely Richard Ames:)
I've often wondered, (I hope objectively and not with self pity) that if being female may have had some bearing on my confidence in pursuing my educational dreams.
That being said, I do currently have a great job working for a major insurance company as a compliance specialist (guess all that rule keeping mentality did have some practical application:)
"I've often wondered, (I hope objectively and not with self pity) that if being female may have had some bearing on my confidence in pursuing my educational dreams."
Mickey, that could be a distinct possibility. Since you were around in the days of the two-year program, that means you came along some years after me, and I don't know just how gender-locked the church still was by that time (beyond a male-only ministry). I'm sure that women were still taught to be very submissive, not to seek to obtain any kind of "authority" over men, even in appearance, etc. And if folks like Rod Meredith were still around, then the situation could really be bad. Certainly not a confidence-booster for you, I'm sure.
One early issue that put me on the path to "liberal Armstrongist" and then later out of COG-dom was the whole role-of-women doctrine taught by the church. I quickly discovered, after arriving at AC, that the women I became the closest friends with, and whose company I most enjoyed, were the ones who were more independent (as independent as they could be in that environment) and who spoke their minds and didn't assume that they couldn't think for themselves simply because they were female. I came to the firm belief that first college year that the church's gender-role teachings were flawed (later on, I would say that they were dead wrong and evil). Maybe I was just naturally oriented toward the independence of individuals, and personal empowerment, before I started at AC, but just had never thought about it before.
When you join Living, you have to hand in your brains,though some, I would venture would have very little to hand in, joining their fellows in the LCG Ministry.
Jorgheinz
When you join Living, you have to hand in your brains,though some, I would venture would have very little to hand in, joining their fellows in the LCG Ministry.
Jorgheinz
Hey! I just thought of something that might give poor Jimmy a boost. Rod used to always tell his students about his wine hobby, so I believe this would be totally appropriate. In fact, I can't fathom why someone else hasn't suggested it already. It'll be a real gas!
ANNUAL SO-CAL LCG WINE AND CHEESE TASTING SOCIAL.
So, Rod, if you are tuned in, let us know if you are interested. You can pour the wine, and I'll cut the cheese!
BB
"So, Rod, if you are tuned in, let us know if you are interested. You can pour the wine, and I'll cut the cheese!"
BB, old buddy, just be sure that Rod throws that wine do in SoCal! Otherwise he might have it here in Charlotte, and for all that I'd love for you to visit our city, I don't want you cutting the cheese here!
I'm not convinced that the AC experience was all that bad. We did and learned plenty that would prove of value in the future. There were genuine and worthy challenges there. Yet it was a profoundly mixed bag.
The authoritarian environment was intellectually crippling, an indidious product of Meredith and Hoeh, based upon research for which they were utterly unqualified. It shielded them from superior intellectual challenge, which hurt them as well as the rest of us. They could always fall back on "church government." It was and still is an ugly, devious and ungodly paradigm. Evil is probably not too strong a word. They'll pay for it one day, in this life or the next.
Aside from that, any AC grad or longtime WCG member acquired a vast knowledge of the Bible, regardless of WCG spin. Interpretational upgrades after the WCG experience are thrilling by comparison, like moving from black and white to full color.
Appreciation for fine things, involvement in the Ambassador and Spokesman Club clones of Toastmasters International, the magnificence of the campuses, the constant exposure to superb cultural events and personalities -- all of this was priceless. Anyone capable of living through it all should have left immensely enriched.
On the other hand, anyone who suffered a broken home due to D&R, or who lost a loved one to the perverse application of anointing for sickness without recourse to medical attention has reason for outrage. There can never be justification for the hubris that allowed those cruel teachings -- but we do have to pick up and move on. Eventually every one of us will have to.
HWA and his yes men will eventually face Moses, David, Jesus -- the whole gang of real men. They'll have a lot of explaining to do. I trust they'll do it in the presence of those whose homes they destroyed and those who died prematurely because of cowards who twisted words of a compassionate Creator and then forced people to conform to their monstrosity. Justice is inevitable, believe me.
Until then, may God speed everyone who gets loose, finds courage to cut losses, and then moves forward with the many excellent things gained from the Armstrong experience into the even greater challenge and responsibility of light and freedom.
I'll put on my best Southern manners if I'm ever in Charlotte,
Camfinch.
BB
Looks like Rod Meredith has one "splinter" in particular in mind. Yesterday's weekly newsletter (to be read in all churches) includes this from his pen:
/--
It has come to my attention that a few of our members are meeting with ex-ministers of the Church of God who have been disfellowshipped and marked. One notable example is Fred Coulter. When Fred angrily and very disrespectfully confronted Mr. Herbert Armstrong back in 1979, God’s Apostle personally disfellowshipped him. Then Mr. Armstrong immediately called me—as Director of the Ministry—and instructed me to disfellowship and mark Fred Coulter which I did at the time.
In my opinion, Mr. Coulter has continued to poach members away from those who are actually preaching the Gospel to the world and is conducting himself as an enemy of the Church. This is what he did when he opposed the servant of God who taught most of us the Truth, Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong.
Therefore, in the name of Jesus Christ, I am now instructing loyal Living Church of God members not to meet with or fellowship with Fred Coulter—a dissident who was personally disfellowshipped by God’s Apostle, Herbert W. Armstrong, and publicly disfellowshipped and marked by me personally.—Roderick C. Meredith
--/
What did Coulter do to deserve disfellowship and marking? Confront Armstrong about the incest allegations?
Well, doesn't Meredith's letter speak volumes?
First, old hog jowls never listened to anyone, except occasionally Stan Rader, so it's my understanding that if one of his "trusted" aids wanted to get a point across, he had to do it with passion. Predictably, the Korah principle was usually invoked by HWA.
Second, why, when some minister or teacher of bogusness gets disfellowshipped, why don't they just go back to school, or get a real job? I mean it's not as if they have anything tangible to contribute to God or humanity by starting their own replica of the bogusness!
Lastly, it's absolutely laughable to see that Meredith is still referring to HWA as "God's Apostle". Of course, I know the answer to this one. He has to do this, because his credibility is tied directly not so much to Jesus Christ, but to Armstrong.
These people who aimlessly float back and forth amongst the splinters are indulging in what I call comparison shopping for diarrhea! That's why I coined the expression HWAcaca!
BB
The false rumors here are amazing.
Tom Mahon is entirely incorrect. No one will "inherit the Church" (Living). Leadership will pass to an evangelist on the Council of Elders who has been chosen by Christ to fill the office (Mike Meredith is not a minister, and his brother Jim is a local elder who serves his heart out here, and is nowhere near being on the Council). Neither of Mr. Meredith's sons are in "positions", but are just serving at the local level. Jim's ordination was at the behest of the local ministry; Jim was content to just serve, did not want or seek being ordained. He and his wife just enjoy helping.
The pulse of Living is strong, with new people coming in all the time, the Gospel being preached over an ever-expanding network of TV stations, satelites, cable stations and the Internet (all in multiple languages), and the income is up 8% (2% higher than budgeted). What Living is doing is working, and our enemies just can't stand it. They want us to fall apart and fail. Well, learn to live with disappointment folks--we are here for the duration. Get used to it.
Mr. Meredith warned us away from people like Dave Pack, Ron Weinland, Gerald Flurry and Fred Coulter, just as he has warned us about Gerald Flurry. Protecting the flock is part of his job, and sometimes you have to get strong in order to warn someone from danger. It was done in love to protect us.
Bob Theil's website is obviously a private effort as a supportive church member and is not subsidized by Living. You just don't like what he has to say.
Having personally heard Mrs. Ames play the violin, it is obvious that her decades of practice have paid off in producing beutiful music. But then, I like violin music.
Anonymous said: "Bob Theil's website is obviously a private effort as a supportive church member and is not subsidized by Living."
Really?
Has RCM ever stated publicly that LCG does NOT subsidize Thiel in any way?
Has Thiel ever stated publicaly that he gets no money from RCM or LCG?
I think this is a relevant point to take into consideration at this time. How about it, RCM and Dr. Thiel? Will you go on record at this time on this issue?
Publius
A point of curiousity about the growth of various COGs. I wonder if anyone ever gathers statistical information about:
1) 2nd Generationers
2) Deaths
3) Cross over from other COGs
4) actual new folks with no previous exposure to COG-dom and lastly
5) duration of individuals remaining within a particular cog fellowship.
I'd be really interested in those last two. But it would be probably thought the same as David numbering Israel and therefore not to be considered:)
Mickey
Oh, anonymous, so you think LCG is the one true splinter?
I believe Dr. Meredith is correct when he warns people about Weinland, Flurry, Pack, Coulter, and the others. It's just that he should place his own name on that list, as well.
"Mr. Meredith warned us away from people like Dave Pack, Ron Weinland, Gerald Flurry and Fred Coulter, just as he has warned us about Gerald Flurry."
So, you are saying he warned you twice about Flurry or did you just not edit what you wrote?
COG stats like Mickey suggested would be very interesting. Dave Pack always seems to talk percentages, which I once put in a spreadsheet, hoping to work out some real numbers.
The stats could test my hypothesis that dumb sheep are getting dumber through imbreeding, whereas the ministers are mostly cloned.
The pulse of Living is strong, with new people coming in all the time, the Gospel being preached over an ever-expanding network of TV stations, satelites, cable stations and the Internet (all in multiple languages), and the income is up 8% (2% higher than budgeted). What Living is doing is working, and our enemies just can't stand it. They want us to fall apart and fail. Well, learn to live with disappointment folks--we are here for the duration. Get used to it.
You forgot to mention "The preceeding post is copyright 2008 Living Church of God, all Rights Reserved."
Hey I remember in 1992 when during Round seven of the AR/Renehan Tkach vs Meredith bout Tkach said if they didn't like the changes "There's the door Good Riddance!"
PUBLIUS SCRIBED:
Has Thiel ever stated publicaly that he gets no money from RCM or LCG?
MY COMMENT:
I have known Bob Thiel for upwards of 25 years. Love him or hate him, be tad fair in this.
I know Bob as an intensely loyal, and energetic guy to everything he does in life . Does he and I vehemently disagree about things? You bet. But I assure you, that His motivation is definitely not "money" or even getting "ordained".
Probably the only thing Bob has ever gotten from RCM is having RCM pickup the check for pancakes and coffee at IHOP.
Not everything is a "filthy conspiracy" and at times , my fellows here at AW, you "protesteth" too much about minor things and get downright too nasty on a personal level.
It is well established here that I am against strange, controlling and cultic behavior. There are enough "big issues" to write about than some of the really picky BS that I read here.
It probably diminishes the cause of enlightenment to go down the road of woof poofing any tomfoolery accusation made without any evidence or fact.
Wild eyed speculative accusations serve no good purpose for any cause. AW should be a source of factual information, reasoned editorial and insightful satire.
Your Friend,
Bill Lussenheide
"AW should be a source of factual information, reasoned editorial and insightful satire."
Way to harsh our buzz Bill!!!
(said with tongue firmly in cheek)
Attention Armstrongites....
1972 - 1975 people left the WCG in droves and a major split occurred.
1975 - 1985 the "one true chuch" was exposed as a dangerous cult.
1986 Armstrong finally kicked the bucket and the whole show went to hell along with 'im.
Give it up, get a life, it was all a con-game and a farce and now it is just another bunch of exposed, defunct cult groups worshipping the memory of a dirty old man.
I'm happy to see Lussenheide confirm my feeling that Bob T is a true believer and his unbridled enthusiasm is not tainted by mammon or coveting of position.
Reminiscing my early days, I felt the same way once. In those days, though, HWA was very restrictive on what we lay folk could do to spread the word. I still remember relating a "Bob thing" that I did and was told to curb my enthusiasm...
We felt so secretive that a minister said if someone outside the rented room we met in asked who we were it was okay to tell them.
Before the recent LCG Council of Elders meeting, it was announced one of the topics to be discussed would be other COG groups. Since that meeting, Bob Thiel has launched attacks against Pack and Billingsley. Now, RCM has disfellowshipped Coulter, who left WCG in 1978. Could that relate to an LCG elder in San Diego bolting the flock in January and RCM's recent article about the fruit of rebels? A pattern is developing. Lash out at potential threats. Despite Thiel's postings to the contrary, it's obvious there's trouble in Charlotte and LCG leaders are resorting to desperate actions to stop the drop in members.
"RCM's recent article about the fruit of rebels"
Where can I locate this article ?
"If Rod really wanted to punish the LA churches, he should have sent his sister, Katherine Ames, to play violin for special music."
Really, no reason for that.
Hot off the press from CoGWriter:
While it is true that the world is filled with racist groups, and some of them espouse Anglo-Israelism, the type of Anglo-Israelism espoused by the Living Church of God (LCG) is not racist.
Pull the other one, Bobby, it's got bells on!
Tkach's Cruise Concierge wrote:
"RCM's recent article about the fruit of rebels" Where can I locate this article?
The May-June issue of the Living Church News. Try this link on the cogl.org website:
What is the Fruit of Rebels?
b²
"The May-June issue of the Living Church News."
Thanks , just read it.
Their Church newspaper is full of more sermon articles - about as exciting as a Watchtower - shit, what a miserable life under jackboot Meredith
Ron Weinland has just extended the date of getting nuked - AGAIN! Check his website. He now says mid-December.
I take back my comment of a few days ago when I said that I thought he and his wife, Laura, were sincere. No one could be this stupid. He has got to know that he isn't a true prophet because there is NO way he can possibly explain how God could be so confused as to give him so many different instructions.
He is either in the biggest denial of mankind's history, he's a complete idiot, or he is so full of himself that he refuses to believe that he could be wrong. But if he was a "good man," he would do the right thing: step up and admit he was wrong.
I stand corrected.
Anonymous wrote:
Ron Weinland has just extended the date of getting nuked - AGAIN! Check his website. He now says mid-December.
Really? And I was planning a trip to Bermuda. What a witness! First he threatens to eliminate the NBA playoffs and now he's toying with the destruction of the NFL? That's terribly unsportsman-like - someone should blow a whistle, throw a yellow flag, call for an instant replay or something!
He has got to know that he isn't a true prophet because there is NO way he can possibly explain how God could be so confused as to give him so many different instructions.
See, that's the trouble with all these self-proclaimed apostles, prophets, and witnesses. The more they write and mouth off, the more confusion they create. God has never been confused and isn't listening to any of them; neither should you.
Wineland is no idiot, but he does inhale of the same toxic cloud of self-delusion that affects all the chosen wannabees of Lilliput. Being ousted from UCG for embracing and teaching false COG doctrine ought to tell you what he is full of.
..step up and admit he was wrong...
Or write another book...?
LOL! Stop it, my sides are aching!
b²
Much agro surrounding 'ministers' is avoided when they are answerable to their congregation and NOT to a headquarters (other than to The Head).
There's no doubt in my mind that Weinland's latest blog post "prophecies" the incipient first point of plan B, leaked on April 22 of this year. To wit, these two sentences:
"Each day since this past Sabbath, God has been giving me more understanding concerning the timing of events that I now believe I am to address in the Church, but I cannot do so until after July 16. All this will be explained in sermons after that date."
"There is a lot unsaid at this time because there is too much to address in this posting, and these things must be addressed in their full context through sermons that will cover the subject."
Those two sentences, I believe, indicate that Weinland is warming the sheep up for the first part of plan B, to wit:
"Series of sermons stating why & what happened, including repentance by Weinland in late July 2008."
Also, Weinland has deleted all posts on his blog prior to April 17th. Fortunately Weinlandtranscripted had the foresight to preserve the originals.
There's no doubt in my mind that neither of the Witless Weinlands believe they are the "end of the age" prophets, any more than either of them believes the sky is green. The only green they see are the hard-earned "Israelite" countries' tithe dollars as they convert them into Euros --- as the members starve themselves, stockpile food, and "send it all in"! :-(
It's about time for Thiel to blast Charles Bryce again as he rotates his attacks on COG groups that are bleeding members from LCG.
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