A collection of
and Comments from survivors of Herbert W. Armstrong,
Garner Ted Armstrong, The Worldwide Church of God and its
Articles Pertaining To Herbert W. Armstrong, Garner Ted Armstrong and The Worldwide Church of God
PT Home Page
Primary PT Sub-Pages
Anatomy of a Hate Letter
Here's a closer look at Dave Edwards's letter, posted 3/5/2007:
After reading some not all; of your website I
can see how bitter you are toward WCG and Mr. Armstrong. But
maybe youíre asking too much of a man whoís been dead for 20
years? You should read his autobiography as well as everything
else before passing judgment so you can make a truly enlightened
judgment. See I donít care if you donít believe in God or His
word Iím not the one you have to answer too. Iím not going to
quote anything from the bible because youíre not going to read
it. However I think you should tell the complete truth not just
your viewpoint. The WCG did do a lot of things and Mr. Armstrong
was by no means perfect however no human being is. We all sin
only Christ was perfect and He did give us the ability to think
freely. All your website does is stir up strife and hate. The
problem in the church today is
I think a psychiatrist would have a field day analyzing this piece, but I'm not a shrink, so I'll leave that to others. Rather, let's break the letter down and address the "points" as we find them.
After reading some not all; of your website I can see how bitter you are toward WCG and Mr. Armstrong.
You didn't read all that much, apparently, based on what follows.
But maybe youíre asking too much of a man whoís been dead for 20 years?
Really? And what are we asking of him? Nothing that I'm aware of. We're simply telling people who and what he was, and warning them lest they fall into the traps he dug that are still waiting out there to kill people.
You should read his autobiography as well as everything else before passing judgment so you can make a truly enlightened judgment.
Guess what, Dave! I have read it. A couple of times. I've read certain portions of it many times. What I found, in retrospect, is a true narcissist, a man totally self-absorbed, a legend in his own mind. Maybe you should read it.
See I donít care if you donít believe in God or His word Iím not the one you have to answer too.
Iím not going to quote anything from the bible because youíre not going to read it.
However I think you should tell the complete truth not just your viewpoint.
Viewpoint? This web site is not a viewpoint, it's HISTORY!
The WCG did do a lot of things and Mr. Armstrong was by no means perfect however no human being is.
Wow! Three complete thoughts in a single unpunctuated sentence. I would say [sic], but it would be too much work.
Dave, I don't think anybody expects Herbert to be perfect, but any time a leader, religious or otherwise, takes it upon himself to tell others how to live, I think everyone (not just me) expects that individual to try to set an example. Don't you?
We all sin only Christ was perfect and He did give us the ability to think freely.
I'll have to take your word for that, I guess. The only book that talks about him is the bible, and it's so flawed that no one can trust it. Personally, I'm not sure he ever existed. (Have you seen Robin Hood's grave?)
All your website does is stir up strife and hate.
Really? Where? No strife or hate here, so it must be on your end.
The problem in the church today is that people arenít going to do whatís right either they donít know how or they donít want to.
No kidding? Maybe Herbert wasn't such a great leader after all. If he was so great, then people should know how to behave and proceed to do so, wouldn't you think?
I feel sorry for all of those who were hurt by the church and the ministry God did not approve of those behaviors.
I'm sure you're right about that.
Had Mr. Armstrong known he wouldíve put a stop to it.
Are you kidding? He marked and disfellowshipped any minister who tried to do something decent. He put spiritual nazis in charge of almost every department. Do you seriously think those men would have dared pull some of the stunts they did without his implied consent? By their own testimony, most of them were scared to death of him.
As far as the incest claims and the supposed drinking his own son Garner Ted denied ever accusing his father of incest saying that everything you need to know about my father is in his autobiography.
"Everything you need to know about my father is in his autobiography"...in a court of law, Dave, that would not be called a denial, it would be called "non-responsive", and the prosecutor would ask the judge to direct the witness to answer the question.
But even if Ted had denied it, so what? Ted was a philanderer himself, by his own admission. The fact that he didn't molest his own daughters may be due to the fact that he had only sons.
Have you personally ever talked to any of the people who supposedly were involved?
No, but I haven't personally spoken to anyone involved in the murder of Nicole Simpson, either. Even so, I'm pretty sure that O.J. did it.
If you havenít all youíre doing is going by what you have heard or read.
And what are you going by, Dave? Were you there? (I haven't been to Iraq, either, but I hear there's quite a war over there. Should I not believe it just because I haven't been there?)
I do not agree with everything Mr. Armstrong said but I donít have too.
Why not? If he was God's apostle, you should believe EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS FROM THE MOUTH OF HERB! I used to.
The Church that Christ started is still in existence today albeit scattered and splintered over the entire world.
Are we talking about Catholics and Protestants here? Or are you referring to the renegade cult leaders who are fighting over the scraps of Herb's empire?
Itís also fine if you wish to judge the church as a whole claiming that we are a cult. Again itís just your opinion.
It's definitely my opinion, based on my 40 years of personal experience living in that nightmare. How long have you been in the church, Dave? Were you around when Herb was alive?
As for proofs that God doesnít exist youíre free to believe whatever you want so why judge others for their beliefs?
I don't. There may be some pages on this site that do pass judgment, but I didn't write them. It's like the abortion issue with me, Dave. I'm 100% pro-life, but I'm also pro-choice. I just hope that when people choose, whether it be abortion or religion, they will choose life.
If you want to believe that you came from a rock thatís fine a lot of people believe that.
I don't believe that. Where did you get such a ridiculous idea?
I prefer to believe that I came from something smarter and greater then I am.
I prefer to keep my ego out of it. I was born in the Ozarks, and a lot of people make fun of people like me, but I'm not ashamed of where I came from. What's important to me is where I am now and what I stand for. That is my identity. I only take responsibility for what I can control, and my origins were not under my control.
If you consider this hate mail so what Iím not ashamed of anything I wrote.
Funny you should define your own letter as hate mail. It didn't occur to me until you pointed it out. Are you saying you HATE me and those who wrote the articles on this site. Do you think Jesus would approve of such hatred?
And you can insult me and belittle me all you want because I donít answer to you for my actions.
I choose not to insult or belittle you. Your letter speaks for itself.
Iím not going to waste my time threatening you
Uh-oh! Uh-oh! Careful, Dave!
or insulting you.
Insult away. I can take it.
Those kinds of actions are foolish nonsense.
Threats also a federal crime. The FBI doesn't take kindly to such actions. Good thing you aren't threatening me, isn't it?
And you can keep your website
Oh, gosh, Dave! Thank you! Thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you !
but you really should get all your facts straight before putting them out where everyone can see them.
Please, if you find any facts that are in error, let us know. We'll delete them. (We've been extending that same offer for the last 10 years, but so far nobody has come forward with any proof debunking our facts.)
After looking up all of the so called painful truths that you looked at there are some serious questions that you should ask. Have you personally ever talked to any of the people who supposedly were involved?
Yes, several. I was involved in many of these incidents myself. The articles I have written are, by and large, first-hand experience. Who else do I need to talk to?
All I could find on The Ambassador Report always seems to link to your website. That makes me believe that this publication never existed until later years.
Then you haven't done very much research. The reason the links point here is that this is the only site (as far as I know) that currently hosts the AR. What you may not realize is that the AR existed first in paper format, and thousands of people have their own hardcopy. Ask around. (You can find mention of Ambassador Report here; scroll down to the 13th paragraph. This site has no connection with the Painful Truth whatsoever.)
And David Robinsonís book doesnít prove anything.
All by itself, no. But if the allegations were false, why didn't Herb sue? He sued people over many things much more trivial than accusations of incest. (Fact is, Dave, Herbert DID sue David Robinson, but not for libel or defamation of character...he sued for INVASION OF PRIVACY! What does that tell you?)
As I said earlier Garner Ted denied saying anything to his father about the alleged incest.
As I said earlier...so what?
WCG did make a lot of mistakes and did screw up peoples lives
And you still believe it is God's true church?
but to say that it was brainwashing us and making us believe in something that wasnít real that only shows 2 things. 1 That people are searching for something beyond this miserable human life or 2 We are so weak that we will follow only what people tell us and not look at things for ourselves.
I'll give you both points. You are 100% correct. So, Dave, why are YOU still there?
Mr. Armstrong did a lot of good things
Really? Name one!
and to belittle him and make him out to be basically
Satan himself all youíre doing is showing your ignorance and willingness
to not think for yourself and to attempt to tear down someone
Your logic escapes me. A minute ago you said that people in the church only do what they are told and don't look at things for themselves; now you tell me that, since I have left the church I'm showing my ignorance and willingness not to think for myself. Can you explain that, please?
As for making Herb out to be Satan himself, let me say simply that I've never seen Satan, so I'm not even sure he exists. I did see Herb many times, so I know he was real.
As for Herb showing us what God could do through man...well, if that's what God is all about, then I'll pass, thank you. You've convinced me, Dave. I'll remain an agnostic.
I guess I do owe you one apology, Dave. I said I wouldn't belittle you, but I think I probably did. I apologize for that. It's just that, when someone like you writes here and is SO SURE that we are wrong, the temptation to stick my foot in front of him is more than I can resist.
You admitted up front that you didn't read everything on the website; it's obvious to me that you didn't spend more than an hour or so, probably skimming titles without digging in to see what this site is really all about. It would literally take you weeks to read everything, but would be worth your time to read at least a dozen articles from end to end before passing judgment. If you did that, it might begin to dawn on you that these articles are written by many different people. Most have an author listed, but even without that, the writing styles are much too diverse to be written by a single individual.
It might also begin to dawn on you that not all of these people can be making this stuff up. After all, what motive would anyone have to slander a dead man? There's no money in it. This site carries no advertising, does not request donations, does not receive money from any source. The site isn't expensive to maintain, but every cent that passes through is on its way OUT. Nothing comes in.
So what motive would anyone have to spend the hundreds of hours it took to write these pages just to slander a dead man?
Think about that.
I think you are well meaning, Dave. The last guy who wrote in here to complain turned out to be a Herbert-trained preacher who was awaiting trial for...(are you ready for this?) -- the rape of his own 9 year-old granddaughter! Only weeks later, he was convicted by a jury and sentenced to life in prison. I don't think you're like him, Dave. At least I hope not.
You are, however, trusting the wrong people. If I might recommend a little light reading, check out the following articles:
After you read those articles, feel free to contact us again. I think you're hurting down inside somewhere, and we can probably help you. In the meantime...don't drink the Kool-Aid!
If you have anything you would like to
submit to this site,