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Email To The Editor
(Page 97)
3/05/07
After reading some not all; of your website I
can see how bitter you are toward WCG and Mr. Armstrong. But maybe
you’re asking too much of a man who’s been dead for 20 years? You
should read his autobiography as well as everything else before
passing judgment so you can make a truly enlightened judgment. See I
don’t care if you don’t believe in God or His word I’m not the one
you have to answer too. I’m not going to quote anything from the
bible because you’re not going to read it. However I think you
should tell the complete truth not just your viewpoint. The WCG did
do a lot of things and Mr. Armstrong was by no means perfect however
no human being is. We all sin only Christ was perfect and He did
give us the ability to think freely. All your website does is stir
up strife and hate. The problem in the church today is
that people aren’t going to do what’s right either they don’t know
how or they don’t want to. I feel sorry for all of those who were
hurt by the church and the ministry God did not approve of those
behaviors. Had Mr. Armstrong known he would’ve put a stop to it. As
far as the incest claims and the supposed drinking his own son
Garner Ted denied ever accusing his father of incest saying that
everything you need to know about my father is in his autobiography.
Have you personally ever talked to any of the people who supposedly
were involved? If you haven’t all you’re doing is going by what you
have heard or read. I do not agree with everything Mr. Armstrong
said but I don’t have too. The Church that Christ started is still
in existence today albeit scattered and splintered over the entire
world. It’s also fine if you wish to judge the church as a whole
claiming that we are a cult. Again it’s just your opinion. As for
proofs that God
doesn’t exist you’re free to believe whatever you want so why judge
others for their beliefs? If you want to believe that you came from
a rock that’s fine a lot of people believe that. I prefer to believe
that I came from something smarter and greater then I am. If you
consider this hate mail so what I’m not ashamed of anything I wrote.
And you can insult me and belittle me all you want because I don’t
answer to you for my actions. I’m not going to waste my time
threatening you or insulting you. Those kinds of actions are foolish
nonsense. And you can keep your website but you really should get
all your facts straight before putting them out where everyone can
see them. After looking up all of the so called painful truths that
you looked at there are some serious questions that you should ask.
Have you personally ever talked to any of the people who supposedly
were involved? All I could find on The Ambassador Report
always seems to link to your website. That makes me believe that
this publication never existed until later years. And David
Robinson’s book doesn’t prove anything. As I said earlier Garner Ted
denied saying anything to his father about the alleged incest. WCG
did make a lot of mistakes and did screw up peoples lives but to say
that it was brainwashing us and making us believe in something that
wasn’t real that only shows 2 things. 1 That people are searching
for something beyond this miserable human life or 2 We are so weak
that we will follow only what people tell us and not look at things
for ourselves. Mr. Armstrong did a lot of good things and to
belittle him and make him out to be basically Satan himself all
you’re doing is showing your ignorance and willingness to not think
for yourself and to attempt to tear down someone
who while he was one of the weak and base things God was able to
show us what could be done through man.
Dave Edwards
dmedward@houston.rr.com
Whew! Did you ever
hear of paragraphs or punctuation? Seems like everyone who
writes here to defend Herbert is illiterate, or nearly so. To
be fair, you're better than most, but you really should take a class
on how to write a
dissident letter.
For a detailed response to
your diatribe, go
here.
__________________________________________________
3/06/07
Thank you, Retired
Prof, for your articles submitted to The Painful Truth. Your
approach to unbelief is refreshing. I, personally, am much
happier and contented since timidly emerging from the "atheist
closet" about ten-plus years ago than I ever was when I strove
to believe.
I spent most of my
almost 70 years of life in a long, frustrating attempt to
discover what God wanted from me, how to best please him,
whether he really cared about human beings, and why the Bible,
if it is truly the inerrant Word of a perfect God, is so
confusing and generates so many diverse doctrines. This
far-too-long attempt was, however, a decidedly well earned
educational experience both in the Radio/Worldwide Church of God
and later in orthodoxy. Obviously, it was very difficult for me
to lay aside my cloak of Christianity. It was my security
blanket.
Now I am convinced
that there is no god at all and that the Bible is primarily a
control device authored by mere humans. As I have said in my
second book in process, "Had I been less observant, less
studious, less inquisitive, and even less sincere about
discovering religious 'truth,' I would most probably still be a
Christian."
Again, thank you for
your insight and allowing others to partake of it.
__________________________________________________
Reply to Dave Edwards
3/14/07 Dave I guess my experience was all in my head. Boy they got
you real good.
I spent 17-plus years in the cult and I didn't join of my
own free will either. In the article I wrote, I explain
that I do not feel ill-will to my parents. I was brought in
as a six year old child; I basically knew nothing else until
I saw for myself the whole thing was a sham.
I think that you may be a minister under an alias. In
today's world you can have multiple e-mail accounts, I
should know I have THREE for myself ( all legit ). I didn't
know this site existed until about a year ago so this is not
an endorsement for the site. I studied many many things
while in as well as after I left. I have come to realize
that TO ME ALL RELIGION IS A SHAM -- this includes
the Bible.
But since I was a part of the W.C.G. that is my life.
When you call ME a liar I take it personally. Once you come
to your senses (which I doubt uou will), you will see the
extreme measures they used to cover their asses. I
find that most stories are similar in nature, but people
like you REFUSE to see that. We did not all get together
and decide to speak out and spread lies like Ol' Herb did in
his AUTOBIOGRAPHY. We have come here individually to tell
of our experiences to help those that are unsure of what
happened and help those that are still in finally break free
. If this God did pick individuals as HIS apostles, why
are they so unlike the "JESUS" character in the bible
!!!!!!!??????
__________________________________________________
Hi
Thanks for all the
great resources you’ve been providing. It’s been a tremendous help
in putting my Armstrongist past into perspective.
Right now I’m
looking for a transcript of the divorce proceedings between HWA and
his second wife Ramona. I realize that there are quotes in the
Ambassador Report, but being the nit picking type I am, I’d like to
see everything in context.
Do you happen to
have that on this site, or know any other way of getting hold of it?
Thanks again and
best wishes
Mickey
Thanks for writing,
Mickey. I've never seen those transcripts either, and I don't
know if anyone still has them. I imagine they would still be
on file at the courthouse where the proceedings took place, but I
don't know if the public could get copies; even if you could, I
suspect they wouldn't be cheap. The raw transcript would have
to be transcribed and, as of 1980, that cost about a dollar a page,
so it would be much higher now.
If anyone out there has
access to existing copies and is willing to share them, please
contact us.
4/05/07
Thanks to "Michael" for proving once again
that there is life after WCG, any of its offshoots, and, indeed,
everything else that puts us into a slumbering escape mode.
Awakening from my own religious sleepwalking was
a "resurrection" for me, a truly wonderful enablement!
One of the dictionary definitions of
"resurrection" is "a revival after disuse, inactivity, or
decay." By disengaging from the WCG and eventually stepping
away from all organized religion, I revived, put my brain into
reactivated use, and cut away the decay. Thanks, Michael, for
telling us about your freeing experiences.
4/28/07
I ran across your site...I was reading your disclaimer,
and you may or may not choose to post this message.
I grew up in the WCG... and went to Ambassador
University... and got out in 1995... I fully agree... Herbert Armstrong
was a false profit, and we were in a cult! Most of my childhood was
spent trying to be good enough to make it into the kingdom of God, so
that I could one day teach all of my "nonWCG" friends at school the
truth about the Holy Days and the Sabbath and Clean and Unclean meats.
After attending A.U. for 2 years, I left when it all
came down (and thank God that it did)... I moved to Vail CO, and lived a
"Godless" life for about 8 years, filled with self gratification and "livin'
life to the fullest", all for me.
In 2003, after hitting rock bottom... I became a
follower of Jesus, and asked him to be my savior... The real Jesus...
not the false Jesus that we learned about in WCG, not Armstrong's
version of Jesus.
My life is completely different, and Jesus has changed
me...I've been working as a youth minister on a native american
reservation with youth ages 12 and up... most of which have been
sexually abused, or suffer from addictions... I believe that the Bible
is innerant and that there is a God, and that God came to earth as
Jesus... and by repenting and putting your faith in Jesus, he gives us
the free gift of eternal life in heaven.(no strings attached) I realize
that this is my belief, and we have free will, and you have free will to
believe what you want to believe.
The last four years of my life have far exceded,
(especially in the "peace" department) the previous years both in the
cult, and in living a life choosing "no God" for 8 years... Herbert
Armstrong mislead and deceived MANY people... and he deceived us about
the true Jesus and true God.
Blessings... you may post my name, if you chose to post
this writing.
tom burnett
thomas_burnett@hotmail.com
Tom, I'm glad you
found a solution that works for you. Unlike some "exit and
support" websites, we here at the Painful Truth believe, above all else,
in freedom of choice, especially where religion is concerned. Some
people are comfortable with religion, some are not; some find the Bible
convincing, others do not. You are clearly aware that I don't
share your beliefs, but you seem to have things together in your life
(perhaps for the first time), so why should I try to ruin a winning
formula? I am especially impressed that you are working with
underprivileged children; I applaud that. The only word of caution
that I would offer is that, when it comes to religion, I hope you will
extend to them the same freedom of choice that you enjoy, even if you
disapprove of what that choice might be.
Thanks for writing.
4/30/07
Here are a few more names that should be added to your list.
Bob League, one of the worst, his meanness too long to mention. He is
in with Meridith. Fred Coulter, no longer in WW, but has his own
church, just like the rest.
Ron Weinland, a terror if ever there was one. Has his own church.
Ed Smith, he was a regional director for a time, he resigned a long
time ago, but he stayed with WW, then he went into United, and is a big
influence there still.
Al Dennis, now deceased, but a real mean dude if ever there was one.
He started his own church after leaving WW, and also was in United.
John Elliott, he caused division among the brethren and
disfellowshipped some sincere and honest people who just didn't agree
with him.
With the exception of Fred Coulter, all these men were in Cincinnati,
and I knew them very well.
I was with Fred Coulter in his group for a time, I even worked for
him before and know him to be a liar.
All of these were ungodly and some were just plain despicable.
You can use my name.
Clyde E Brown
5/15/07
If you truly wish to help those who have been
victimized by Herbert Armstrong's falsehoods you will post on
your website for everyone to send the information they read to
these e-mail addresses
and any others who support armstrongs work and
you also take a leap of faith and do this yourself.For it is
said
COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE
LEST YOU TAKE PART IN HER SINS
LEST YOU SHARE IN HER PLAGUES
FOR HER SINS ARE HEAPED HIGH AS HEAVEN
AND GOD HAS REMEMBERED HER INIQUITIES
We are in the last hour my friend talk is cheap
if you will not stand up for yourselves and others for if you
choose not to do something when you had the chance to, you will
be held accountable on judgment day. Please have faith and trust
in God and the Son of Man for they do love you and have passed
judgment for you.
BEHOLD I WILL MAKE THOSE OF THE SYNAGOGUE OF
SATAN WHO SAY THEY ARE JEWS AND ARE NOT BUT LIE I WILL MAKE THEM
COME AND BOW DOWN BEFORE YOUR FEET AND LEARN THAT I HAVE LOVED
YOU
gr jones
[tuesdaythursday@yahoo.com]
Watch out for the Kool-Aid, Gr. Jones!
5/16/07
I will tell you a mystery my friend
the elect can not be deceived, for they are the body of Christ and
are not in any church organization ordained by men
And it is said It is these that have
not defiled themselves with women for they are chaste
COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE
YOU HAVE ALL BEEN DECEIVED
Is that you again,
Gr. Jones? We'll get right on it. Where do we send the
money?
5/17/07
Heb 8:8The days will come says the
Lord when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah not like the covenant that I made with
their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them
out of Egypt for they did not continue in my covenant so I paid them
no heed says The Lord
This is the covenant that I will make
with the house of Israel after those days says
The Lord :
I will put my laws into their minds
and write them on their hearts and I will their God and they shall
be my people and they SHALL NOT TEACH EVERYONE
HIS FELLOW OR EVERYONE HIS BROTHER SAYING KNOW THE LORD FOR ALL
SHALL KNOW ME from the least of them to the
greatest for I will be merciful toward their iniquities and I will
remember their sins no more. you people just don't get it do you
come out of her my people
Okay, jerkoff, the
party's over. Your first letter was a bit amusing, the second
was entertaining, but now you're becoming a bore. First you
talked about people being victimized by Herbert Armstrong; if you
dislike him so much, how come you sound exactly like him? Your
letters are absolutely insane; they make no sense at all.
"you people just don't get it do you"
Yes, I get it just
fine. You've never heard of punctuation, you're drinking
Kool-Aid, you're a Keeper Of Odd Knowledge (KOOK), and you're a
freak.
By using a
different phony email address each time, I assume you're worried
about being tracked down? No doubt the government is looking
for you, eh? You dive into the bushes each time a black
helicopter passes over? Well I got news for you: THEY ALREADY
KNOW WHERE YOU ARE! Wanna know something else? THEY
DON'T CARE! They've got much more important fish to fry.
And, yeah, from the ground ALL HELICOPTERS LOOK BLACK! That's
because they're too far away to make out their true colors.
We won't be
posting any more of your sewage. If you want attention, write
your message on a piece of cardboard and stand by the freeway.
Someone might give you some money...if they don't run over you
first.
5/20/07
When he entered into the Temple, the chief priests and
elders asked Jesus, "By what authority doest thou these things? and who
gave thee this authority?"
Jesus answered by asking them a question about authority
and then went on to give a parable about two sons. The point Jesus made
was that the one who has the authority is the one who does the job.
For over twenty years, the various Churches of God
haven't seemed to agree on anything, whether it be the Calendar, whether
or not to eat out on the Sabbath in restaurants, whether the foot
washing comes first at Passover and so on. There is however, one topic
upon which all leaders of the Churches of God should be able to agree
and that is on the topic of Alcoholism.
Herein are links to articles on Alcoholism for the
edification of all the Churches of God, the ministers, leaders and
membership. The authority upon which the articles are based is that the
methods work. No other authority is needed.
The articles are based upon what Mr. Dennis Luker called
back in 1982, "The Luker Challenge", which goes like this: [concerning
alcohol] "If you say you can do without it, then prove it!" With that
challenge Mr. Luker lay down the gauntlet based on "Rational Recovery" -
that is to say, instant permanent total abstinence from alcohol. It
works and has worked for millions of people. It may even be that many
did not know that they were using rational recovery, but they were using
it and it worked for them.
As Christians, all of us should be quite aware that it
is not acceptable to be a practicing alcoholic. Alcoholism needs to be
managed by those who are afflicted by it.
I spoke briefly with Mr. Luker after Sabbath Services at
the end of December
2006 and promised that I would write an article on the
topic.
All of you may use this material without restriction,
except that, it must be used in its entirety with nothing deleted,
although it is acceptable to "flesh out" the article.
I will also be passing this information on to Jack and
Lois Trimpey at Rational.org. We have exchanged information in the past.
The topic of alcoholism has profound implications for
the membership of all the churches of God whether or not they are
alcoholics. Even if a person is not an alcoholic in the Churches of God,
they know an alcoholic whether or not they are aware of it. It is time
that this particular problem is resolved everywhere within the Churches
of God. It should be the one thing all the Churches can agree on.
It would be nice to resolve one problem before the end
of the period of testing over the next twenty years.
http://www.quietsafe.org/Alcoholism.html
http://www.quietsafe.org/rational_recovery.htm
Douglas Becker
5/22/07
To Douglas Becker-
I respond to your open letter to Christians. Happily, I am not one now
but I learned alot
about the stresses of religion while wasting 25 years of my life in the
WCG.
I found it interesting years ago to attend the Refresher Courses in
Pasadena. I foolishly
anticipated learning who the Beast was, the truth of 666, or at least
the name of one of
the two witnesses. Boy! Was I wrong!
Most of the lectures from the inadequately-educated personnel consisted
of instructing
church pastors in handling the problems of the weak humans under their
care. There
was little discussion of the Bible as that was under the heavy hand of
Herb and not open
to debate.
I recall in particular the alcohol discussion presented by Herman L.
Haywire. He told us
that most of the drinking problems in the church were manifested by
members who
formerly had no problems. Some never touched the stuff. That was some
news.
After I left in disgust fifteen years ago I spent quite some time in
recovery from my church
experience. I also reflected on the earlier statement concerning
problems of alcoholism in
the church. I realized that the need to drink likely came about as a
result of trying to cope
with the mad world of COGism. To attempt to make sense out of insanity
is a sure recipe
for seeking solace in the bottle.
It was once said that insanity is to keep practicing the same actions
while expecting
different results. Your letter is testimony to that. You counsel to just
say no to alcohol.
What about really biting the bullet and dumping the source of the
stress--religion.
Unfortunately, the walkaways are few in number but those that have
exited greatly reduced
the amount of personal stress in life. I know for sure.
Jim Baldwin
jimmiejazz@peoplepc.com
6/04/07
I wrote you back on 2/23/07, on page 96
of the e-mail index.
Just want to thank you for the website.
I can only speak for myself, but I think that for those of us who
have "come out," and who have lucked upon the Painful Truth, it is
nice to come here once in a while and see how things are going, and
that others come to the site and find helpful links, and a common
experience.
I'd like to recommend a new book if
that's alright. It's the best thing I've read, and I absolutely love
the author. It's called God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons
Everything by Christopher Hitchens. If I could meet this guy,
I'd shake his hand and buy him his drink of choice.
To thine own self be true.
6/07/07
Hello Guys...(sorry, but obviously I got AOL)...
Ugh, Ugh, Ugh....I came across this guy on some forum
thread...Thought all rabid Herbie/WCG lovers were hopefully dead by
now...But shoot, guess there's still some around...Maybe you've come
across some of these nutcases...
Boy, when this guy's on a thread he's gotta' hog the whole
thing....Constantly preaching...This delusional asshole writes...
..."In the Wonderful World Tomorrow, everybody will know Herbert
W. Armstrong and the Church of God were actually PIONEERS of the way
all will then live."...
Oh, Puke!!!.....
Here's his insane blog link...
http://herbert-w-armstrong.blogspot.com/
take care and have fun...
lynn
Thanks, Lynn. This guy's name keeps popping up here and there.
Apparently he's a real zealot. Hopefully he isn't dangerous,
but I wouldn't want to sleep in the same room with him.
6/28/07
Dear
Webmaster of the Painful Truth,
"Then
Robinson reminded me of a bizarre story in Armstrong's autobiography
where he had left his son Richard alone at a railway station to find
his own way from Oregon to Los Angeles. In the book Armstrong
praised himself for teaching leadership to the young boy. In
reality, Loma had suspected that Armstrong was innappropriate with
her daughter Dorothy. Armstrong was leaving on a long journey by
train and was only taking Dorothy with him. Loma insisted that
Richard go too. Thus, Armstrong abandoned his son at the train
station and proceeded on with just Dorothy."
Would
you kindly send me the volume and chapter reference to the
Autobiography where this incident is related because a search using
various key words failed to locate this on my (searchable) PDF
copy of HWA's Autobiography?
I wish I could help you out,
Henk, but I tossed all my WCG publications more than 15 years ago.
I haven't spoken to Bruce Renehan since 1999 and no longer have any way
to contact him. What I can suggest is that, if any readers here
still have copies of the HWA Autobiography, they might be able to
find the passage in question and let us know. If that happens, the
Painful Truth will publish the information..
If you are using a pdf
version of the Autobiography, chances are that it has been
edited, or the search index doesn't contain what you are looking for.
I do remember that the Autobiography went through several
editions, and the later ones were often much thinner than the original.
WCG quite often made attempts to tone down their hysteria as time went
on and public scrutiny became more likely. Many booklets (such as
the U.S. and British Commonwealth in Prophecy) were severely
edited and many others (e.g., 1975 In Prophecy) simply went out
of print.
Just accidentally swept across your site and you are still
the clueless ass hole that you have always been.
Thank you for that insightful observation.
I am particularly pleased with your detailed, in-depth explanation as to
WHY I am clueless. If you have anything further to add, feel free
to telephone me at BR-549.
P.T
Editor
(P.S. How does one "accidentally"
sweep across our site?)
(P.P.S. Just for your
edification, "asshole" is one word, not two.)
7/09/07
Pain Truth
At Feast time, When offering are taken
Lev 23 is read.
most hear
.... ye shall make an offering.....
But I read
.....offering made by fire....
Lets do a boolean word search on
made AND fire in OT
I get 75 strikes
Read carefully read each of those verses.
noting the words; Priest, Altar,fire, Burnt, sweet savour
That's right! an offering by fire is a sacrifice!
Despite the claim
that sacrifices were added later.
Those collections were like Fund raising events
J Garber
olecatnaper@yahoo.com
Okay, Jerry!
Thanks for clearing that up.
7/26/07
Just wanted to say how impressed I was over Bruce's
letter about our future. He's a powerful writer and it serves as a
reminder to all of us how our future is in our hands.
As a school teacher, I believe that Bruce hit it on the
head when he said it was about caring. I think that is 99% of the issue.
I see students without any hope at all of making it in their future. I
know that I'm not the only educator out there trying to encourage these
kiddos. Sometimes, it works when I tell the children that I believe in
them....and I do believe in them, but many times, they just don't
believe me. I've seen the kindness of strangers that say a positive
comment like, "Wow! You are really good at that!" and the child believe
them because they have heard it over and over again...even if it isn't
from their parents.
I guess I would just like to add, if you see a child,
any child, including your own, find something positive to say to them.
You may be the ONLY positive influence that child hears. Try to stay
clear from the appearance comments though...IE: You are very pretty,
what a handsome man you are. Say things like, you are a great help, or
you have a nice personality...Anyway, I think you get the point...
Bruce, you did an awesome job on your article. I really
enjoyed reading it.
Warmest Regards,
~Angel =)
Thanks, Angel.
Great to hear from you.
8/06/07
Hello,
You have an interesting and thorough website. I'm not sure to what
degree you are repudiating Christianity, or just the WCG. I can relate
as a person who was deeply depressed by the premillennial "immanent
rapture" theology. By God's grace I was introduced in 1993 to a book by
David Chilton called "Paradise Restored". Since then I have become a
student of history and preterism and can see how the vast majority of
the events referred to in Biblical prophecy took place in the first
century at the time of the Jewish War and destruction of Jerusalem. It
is tragic how many Christians today are totally wrapped up with studying
prophecy that was long ago fulfilled as if it will happen in their
lifetime AT ANY MINUTE. It's no better than reading horoscopes.
I am interested in the history of the WCG. Perhaps you can answer a
question that isn't on your website for me:
You have posted Ernest Martin's resignation from the WCG over the
question of whether Pentecost was on Sunday or Monday. In that letter
he mentions a paper that he wrote some years before on the subject,
which fell into the "wrong hands" and became the tripwire that set off
the explosion between him and Armstrong.
Do you have a copy of that paper? I would be very interested in reading
it. If can get your hands on it, please post a link to it on your
website.
In retrospect it is funny that Pentecost was almost 100% certainly on
Saturday - something that Armstrong and crew would have rejoiced to have
proved. I've noticed that Martin and several others have made the same
mistake by assuming the Crucifixion was on Friday, when the "Day of
Preparation" referred to in Scripture is speaking of the day before the
Feast of Firstfruits, which fell on Friday that year (31), making the
crucifixion on Thursday.
God bless,
Ken Griffith
Thanks for writing, Ken.
To answer your first
question, the primary purpose of this website is to expose the Armstrong
empire for what it was, and continues to be under many other
jurisdictions. As for Christianity, many of our contributors are
still believers, but the majority are not. We try to expose the
fallacies of religion in general as we see them, then let people decide
for themselves. Unlike those we oppose, we don't try to force-feed
anyone.
As for Ernest Martin, I'm
not aware of that particular paper or where it might be. I'm quite
certain we don't have a copy, but if the article you read was part of
Ambassador Report, it's quite likely that John Trechak had a copy.
Unfortunately he is no longer liv\ing. My best guess would be to
try the Associates for
Scriptural Knowledge website, which I believe
is maintained by Martin's son. Good luck in your quest.
Pentecost? Your theory
makes as much sense as any other, but I really don't care.
John B
8/07/07
Hello, Mr. Griffith-
Your reference to Preterism will probably go right by many since it
is one
of the more obscure of the weird doctrines the various branches of
Christianity have formulated.
I'm writing because Preterism was quite instrumental in my recovery
after
25 years in Armstrongism. I was a walkaway on July 4, 1992. (You can
read
an interview with me on the 2006 articles page.)
As I was preparing to leave the cult in the late winter of '92 I was
in a college
library browsing the wonderful supply of periodicals on hand. As was
usual, I
picked up the recent copy of Christianity Today. They had been
commenting
on the changes within the WCG and I was looking for the latest news
from their
perspective.
After glancing through the articles I started to read the classified
section.
There was a big, bold question: "What Happened in 70 A.D.?" by one
Edward
Stevens. I'm sure you know the booklet.
Well, Sir, that booklet led to several months of study leading me
away from
Armstrongism, premillennialism, biblicism, Christianity and theism.
It seems you are in the early stages of complete freedom, too.
I was at first drawn by the brief preterist booklet. Then I studied
more about
the problems of the Bible and rejected the theory of Bible
inspiration It
simply isn't true.
Preterism collapsed, also, not because premillennialism was found
right but
because there isn't going to be a return. Jesus is a fiction.
The WCG was an aggressive premillennialist cult looking for the
return of Christ.
That hope was to be realized "soon." Yeah, right.
As you know, the Preterists claim the return had already happened in
70 AD.
After some months of study I came to understand that the
premillennialists
hold the kingdom to come as a reality awaited. In order to make any
sense
out of the imminency statements of the NT they have to spirtualize
those
promises of imminency.
Now the preterists make a similar flip. They believe in the
statements of
imminency as given. Then they have to spirtitualize the kingdom
promises
since it didn't happen in 70 AD.
Both groups cling to their particular conflicting interpretations in
order to
hold out Christ of the Bible as not being the false prophet he was.
In addition to the Chilton book you ought to read these:
Robert G. Clouse, ed.--The Meaning of the Millennium: Four Views
Gary DeMar--Last Days Madness
A.J. Mattill, Jr.--Luke and the Last Things
(To be studied with a copy of the Weymouth NT, 3rd Edition, 1909.)
I wish you good days of happy research and critical thought.
Jim Baldwin
jimmiejazz@peoplepc.com
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