REPLY:

 Greg,

I always wonder about how honest people really are the rest of the time when they say "in all honesty."

If you think that the malice and hatred and deaths and wars that have been spawned by that horrible book are the product of a "humorous" God, you must be just as twisted as this mythical being that you blindly worship.

I will let you be the first person to ever prove to the world that your fairy tale book, the holy bible, is written or inspired by any god worth worshipping. You are not allowed to use the book to prove it.

Editor

 To whom it may concern:

I don't know very much about you, and I don't know what the members (or member) of the Church of God has done to you. However, I did read what you had to say about bitterness. After reading it I can only agree that you are bitter.

This does not mean that you have not been wronged. That I do not know, but your bitterness will only hurt you. Bitterness will eat you up inside. It is a very frustrating thing because I too am bitter. I have been hurt and I can't seem to forgive, and I am suffering because of it. Bitterness is a very evil thing because when you are bitter you are in the wrong, even when you are correct.

I am a Christian. I believe what Jesus teaches to be true. I am looking for some way to forgive myself and others so that I will be able to experience JOY for the first time in my life.

I hope that you receive healing!

Kindest regards, RJ

 REPLY:

 Let's see: You don't know me and you don't know what was done to me or my family but you can certainly judge me as being "bitter" and worthy of the lake of fire unless I repent. You are certainly very perceptive. I guess you get it simply by being a Christian.

Just because you are held captive by an abusive religion that tries to make you deny normal feelings of anger against someone that has wronged you does not mean that other people have to accept the same feelings of guilt and fear.

If someone harms another human being, it is perfectly normal to have bad feelings towards them. In fact, it is a good way of self-defense and self-preservation because then you will not let that person or any other person hurt or damage you in that way again.

Naturally, the "Jesus pimps" will try to make you think otherwise so that they can continue to abuse you. They turn it all around so that you are the bad person if you don't forgive someone who has harmed you. Thankfully, we as a nation have not done as you would advise or we would all be German or Japanese today, or, most likely, not even here.

Your God can kill multiple millions of people in a "flood," cause "His People" to kill men, women and children in wars, allow millions of babies to be killed before they are even born, etc., etc., yet I am in trouble if I am pissed off at some religious hucksters who stole my money and my life for 25 years. Go figure.

Editor

 THANK-YOU for your website! It really helps us to not feel so alone in the healing process after leaving THE CULT! It's almost like we all need a support group. I could write a book, but I'll try to condense my thoughts.

My husband and I were loyal, devoted and hard-working members of Worldwide Church of God for 25 years, deacon and deaconess.

If we had known "the painful truth" about this organization (Herbie, The Tkach family and those in power) many years ago, our lives would be different today. But, we have to accept, heal, and go forward, even though it has been financially, emotionally, and spiritually devastating. Sometimes, I almost think it is harder on ordained people, because it was like an extra burden or curse was placed on us --to GIVE MORE, DO MORE, AND BE MORE. The serving and responsibilities were many and the stress levels were high. In Worldwide Church of God, we could not think for ourselves. I have a brain and a college degree but could not use it. The word "disfellowship" kept us all thinking alike, marching along together like dumb sheep.

In l996, after much thought and prayer, we made the hard decision to leave and withdraw our membership. Our pastor called us for not attending the Holy Days. When he paid us a visit, he said we were way ahead of the church in our thinking. We felt like we were still in good standing with God, understanding the changes and new teachings on the New Covenant. Our daughter (she wrote you recently as well) even asked the pastor this question -"If these Old Covenant practices are no longer required -then why is Worldwide Church of God still doing them?" He would not tell us that it all revolves around MONEY. After leaving the CULT, we were not prepared for the phone calls, letters, and shunning that would follow. We did not sow discord, but our "friends" treated us like we had. Our daughter also suffered as well, and we helped her get her life back in order, while apologizing to her for keeping her in this CULT (she was baptized in Worldwide Church of God) her entire life and for the missed opportunities in school and social life.

Four years later, the anger is still there, but I'm learning to deal with it. For awhile, we foundered around in other Sunday churches, but nothing seemed to satisfy. Our beliefs on the trinity, heaven and hell and salvation were different than most mainstream churches. Also, the people lacked understanding and compassion with what we had been through. So, it was hard to make new friends. In Worldwide Church of God, our traditions became idols and we worshipped our idols -The Sabbath, Holy Days, Tithing Laws, Clean and Unclean Meats. These have nothing to do with salvation. Faith in Christ and love for others is the bottom line, I believe.

In the meantime, my husband and I did lots of reading. These books and materials may be of some help to others:

1. "Healing Spiritual Abuse" by Ken Blue

2. "Out of the Cults and Into The Church" by Janis Hutchinson

3. "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" by David Johnson and Jeff VanVonderen

4. "When God's People Let You Down" by Jeff VanVonderen

5. "Churches That Abuse" by Ronald M. Enroth

6. "Recovering From Churches That Abuse" by Ronald M. Enroth

7. "False Assumptions" by Dr. Henry Cloud and Dr. John Townsend

8. "Counterfeit Revival" by Hank Hanegraaff

9. "The Cult Explosion" by Dave Hunt

10. "Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web" by David Robinson

In the meantime, another couple left our local congregation of Worldwide Church of God about the same time that we did. It was almost as comforting as apple pie commiserating with our long-time friends over our misery. It was SO Hard to leave a cult, and this was my connection. I went from an abusive controlling church cult right into a left-over friend who became a controlling extremely sensitive bully with many emotional problems. There were too many bumps in the road to keep this friendship going, so now I've been experiencing A MOST PAINFUL TIME. Friends sometimes are not forever and we are now making some new ones and it seems refreshing.

We miss all the fun we had at the Feast Sites, but now we can visit these places and really take it all in, not just limiting ourselves to an afternoon activity, being tired from morning services.

MOST OF ALL, WE MISS THE PEOPLE, who we found out weren't really our friends, unless we believed exactly as they did. Now, I'm free to do spring "H.D." cleaning anytime of the year, celebrate birthdays, anniversaries, Christmas with family, wear make-up, vote in elections, be a productive citizen and enjoy life.

Those times I starved during the week (I could count my ribs in the mirror) just so I could provide a nice meal for Sabbath company are OVER. Those times I ate only crackers and water for lunch (because that was all we had) just to provide a peanut butter sandwich for our daughter's lunch are OVER. Those times I wrote large checks to Pasadena (especially 3rd-T years) while looking at my empty pantry and fridge are OVER. Those times I wondered where my faith is, are OVER. Maybe I should have been on "Survivor" -I knew how to survive in tough times. My anxiety problems I had in past years are OVER. The days of wearing hand-me-down clothes of old styles are OVER. The days of selling our house just to be able to pay bills are OVER.

Our Worldwide Church of God "friends" went in all directions and some don't go anywhere, like us now. I'm finally at peace with what I believe and both my husband and I feel much closer to our relatives. I fully believe that family and getting in touch with one's own personal belief system is where it's at.

I still have some unanswered questions. For example, I was anointed twice to be able to have a child. Whether we were or weren't in Worldwide Church of God, does it matter to God working miracles? Does God, in His infinite wisdom, place His blessing on an organization whose leaders are perverted self-righteous hypocrites?

Coming out of a cult strikes the core of a person's heart and forces us to examine what we really believe. I still believe in God and I still pray. But, now, it is because I WANT TO, not because I HAVE TO. I still believe God answers prayers and is always there when we need Him.

Signed,

Mama Bear

 Hi:

I came across the latest issue {Sept) of the the UCG's United News. In it is an article by Bob Dick entitled--"Spiritual Balance--A Lifelong Quest." It takes up practically the entire page. He parrots the same old poppycock preached by the pervert during our torturous tenure in Worldwide Church of God. In fact, the whole issue is slanted that way. But my analytical mind has developed much since I shifted it from a long term of idleness it suffered in that damn cult.

Anyhow, one particular section of his article left me amazed. I had to go over it again to see if I was reading it right. I am copying it verbatim to get your reaction:

 "To Be 'in The World' and Not 'of the World.'

 What does it mean to be "in the world" and not "of the world"? Well, it means that even if you are around the world all of your life, you shouldn't do all the things they do. An example of that would be a fish that lives in an ocean or sea. It lives in salt water all of its life and yet when you catch the fish you still have to add salt. In other words, just because it lives in salt water doesn't mean that it needs to absorb it. That is what we need to do--not absorb the world around us just like the fish. Quite a challenge isn't it? Christ intended that His disciples go into the world yet not absorb it. This requires delicate spiritual balance." unquote.

After "looking it over and checking it twice," reason kicked in. I thought, Dickie boy, if a God made that sea or ocean salty, he made it for the specific purpose for that particular type of fish to survive in, and thus ABSORB it. That salt water fish could not live in the same environment as a fresh water fish, and vice versus. So what kind of NEW SALT are you referring to? Is it the kind you sprinkle on it after you killed and ready to eat it? Then you say, "That is what we need to do--not ABSORB the world around us, just like the fish."

So Bobby, I get your intent. You are fishing for more suckers. If a God made this big, beautiful, wonderful world with its many people of varied nationalities, customs, and the opportunities to enjoy life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, apparently he also meant for them to ABSORB their environment. But you, with that cultish mindset, would yank them "out of this world" and kill them with NEW TRUTH (as Herbie did many others in the past).---John, this is the way that particular excerpt struck me. I called another long time friend who exited Worldwide Church of God to get his reaction to Dick's excerpt. He told me he thought the same way I did..

What do you think?

Alex

 I was really impressed with your site.

My parents joined the Worldwide Church of God when I was 3 years old and I am just now starting to realize the negative effect it has had on my life. I have been in counseling for the past two years trying to deal with my experiences as a child growing up in the Worldwide Church of God. My brother and sister are both alcoholics as are countless other teens I grew up with in the church. 2 of my church friends committed suicide by blowing their brains out with a gun. And most of my church friends married each other and had children, and not necessarily in that order. I think it would be very interesting to do a study on suicide and marriage statistics of former teen members of the Worldwide Church of God.

My parents still attend the Seaford, DE church. And even though the church has supposedly changed, I feel they are as much a cult as ever. Although, my parents, of course, don't see it that way. When I turned 18, my parents said that I didn't have to attend any more if I did not want to. And I thought, yeah right. Because, before that, missing the Sabbath was tantamount to murdering someone. However, when I turned 18, I stopped going and my parents did not say anything.

Although, I know they disapprove and feel I am a lost soul. Every once in a while, my strange mother will send me a weird religious book about grace or faith and I almost want to throw up. I run from churches like the plague and have no interest in religion at all. It scares the hell out of me. I think it's going to take many more years of therapy before I can say that I have completely recovered from the abuse that I suffered as a result of the Worldwide Church of God.

Oh, by the way, my brother went to AC, too, and said it was the worst experience of his entire life and that he regretted it immensely. My parents thought it such an honor that he got accepted. I got accepted, too, but by that time was smart enough to know better. I opted for a state college. Thank goodness. Oops, is that a euphemism??????

Great page. Cassandra

 2 the Editor/s:

I think the article may help a lot of PT readers.

Best, Sharon

 It's amazing how much effort and detail you put into the site.  It's too bad you can't grow up, get on with your life and make something of yourself instead of being bitter, whining and sticking your head in the sand, blaming all your problems on Worldwide Church of God.  It's funny how the dissenters are always those that haven't been around forever and assume that everything is the same and base their criticisms on the exceptions and things they don't see or are not around to see.  Instead they base it on heresay and gossip.  Probably not the best source of truth.  Oh well.

Kevin J. Moore

kevinjmoore@hotmail.com

REPLY:

Kevin,

Thank you for your kind message. I'm always impressed with the warm humanity of Christians. :-(

I was around for 25 years, probably longer than you.

Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 6:58 PM

Subject: (no subject) 

you suck are your site sucks and you know you will be held accountable for this

REPLY:

Judging by your intelligence level, either you are a minister or you will be soon.

 Editor

  I'm glad to see that the site is still up. The hostname "members.tripod.com" quit working a few days ago, and all the search engines I checked were still returning it. When I tried www.tripod.com, though, I ended up at tripod.lycos.com, so I tried members.tripod.lycos.com and it worked!

Anyway, here's a suggestion for your book list: _Global Brain_ by Howard Bloom (http://www.howardbloom.net/). It's about evolution, not religion, and it doesn't say much about cults, but it is a simple matter to take what it does say and apply it to understanding what really happens within an organization like Worldwide Church of God.

I have been working out a few of the points on my own that Bloom makes, but he presents the big picture in a way that not only affirms my personal ideas about what's really going on on this planet, but has reawakened my interest in evolution.

I had been contemplating writing another article for the PT on what I had found, but now I would say just read the book. It's clearer and far more comprehensive than anything I would have been able to do.

Ralph

 I would write something myself, if it weren't so personally profitable to take the occasional time opportunities I have to read the materials made available by you.

"Taken for a Ride By Garner Ted" by Anonymous is case in point. Second to last paragraph resonated like a thunderclap in a drought with me. I recently visited my actual childhood home. It was Small, small, small.. So confining. So old. So refuse filled. The years had not been kind. It was marked "condemned." No trace of its former polish and promise. Ahh, the parallels.

With your author's memories in mind, duplicates of my own, I'm amazed at the details the minds of children and young adults retain in the face of abuse. Fortunately, Six Flags Fright Nights can't compete with Mr. Rice and his Treblinka offerings for the recalcitrant "elect." I really liked your author's part in actually walking out during the preacher's passion. I used to make him mad by staying, sitting in the front row. Of course, it's easier to exit from a train than it is from a roller coaster. Thank you for a witty, well-written report. We'll think of you on our visits to Six Flags.

Myra

Just read your article at the Painful Truth sight. Applaud the time you took to give it to us. You may be interested to know that "Imagine" was the principal song featured at the sing-alongs of the Humanist/Free Inquiry camp attended by our sons. Before finding the neo PT, were you heavily dependent on C. Sagan and G. Vidal? They consistently gave me the boost I needed. Below is a verse you might like from Piet Hein. On my desk at AC I kept a plaque of a comic Chris Columbus declaiming "the world is neither flat nor round, it's crooked," which, to my private amusement, failed to alarm the confiscating Dorm General. (A volume of Plato, works for which I had no understanding at the time, was confiscated. Did the General recognize that AC's founding principles were espoused by The Republic, and removed it before a lowly citizen of the "ideal society" recognized it as an Armstrong administrative manual? or, was she "just following orders?" )

My volume containing the following quote was carefully concealed and I quoted it to myself throughout the AC experience:

INTERVIEWEE
"Am I pro, or anti, or ex, or ultra this or that, or the other cult? I am questioned with such pertinacity that, once for all, I can only say I am simply here on a passing stay  in a perfectly private capacity."

 Even today I maintain both within easy viewing. I definitely have a few antitendencies with regard to particular cults, but the sayings still extract a smile when engaged in a challenge by some segment of our "Christian" society, or any tyrant-mentality, that disparages the audacity of anyone "imagining" for him/herself or anyone "posturing" as a practicing agnostic or atheist, where they themselves would be better labeled a-theist, "without God," for the cognitive dissonance they sow. For some reason that just reminded me of Gerry Spence's book From Freedom to Slavery, from whence the mind wanders way back to Fromm's Escape From Freedom. Whoa. My mind is now reverting way back to volumes that assisted my escape from Worldwide Church of God/AC.

It's been a pleasure reading your writing and talking at you.

Hope you enjoyed the poem

Myra

 Dear Editor,

 I in all honesty and truth I have read most of your articles. I once thought in my life that there was a Quote " TRUE CHURCH" like we all did, not only the Worldwide Church of God the one I was in But other religions of the world also-I think are feeling the same effects of Worldwide Church of God. I just do not feel it has any thing to do with a RELIGION -I see all the religions of this world falling one by one. All of these religions of the world are splitting. After studying so much I am finding this all to be so true. Life is more than a Religion!

You can post this but I wish to remain anonymous -thanks for all your help

 It's been a very long time since I've been involved with this site, and the Ekklesia mailing list. I've been only randomly checking it. I thought I would let you know where my journey has taken me.

I was born and raised in the Worldwide Church of God, left partly at about 17, left completely at about 21. I've spent the last four years (I'm now 25) trying to recover from the abuse that the church and my parents in the name of the church heaped upon me, and I've mostly succeeded. The church no longer has any effect on me, I eat lard and pork and seafood and I enjoy it. I am not a virgin, nor am I married, and I'm proud of it. On the day of atonement I purposely go out and eat a large dinner. And I enjoy life a lot more than I ever did before.

But what I've found most of all is a new sense of self. I am. Worldwide Church of God made a business out of taking that away from people. I no longer care what they do, except for trying to help as many people get out as I can.

Karl Marx said that "Religion is the opiate of the masses". I find myself agreeing with him. Religion has, for me, tried to take away my sense of self, when I finally found it, they tried to strike fear into me so I wouldn't use it. Even now I get the occasional email from some loser telling me how I'm going to burn in hell for not believing some part of doctrine or another. I just laugh at them.

Psychotherapy is *very* helpful. You just have to find the right one. In my case I was lucky enough to have the same therapist that my mother had, so she has already a seven year insight into what I had to go through and is very uniquely equipped to help me in a way literally no one else can.

The church experience can be conquered. I know, because I have, and am hopefully on my way to becoming a happy and well adjusted member of society. It is possible. For those of you just coming out, don't give up hope.

I really no longer care about what the Worldwide Church of God does. They're like a bunch of pathetic losers to me now. The only thing I care about is helping those people who want to get out to get out. You can feel free to email me if you're one of those people, I can tell you more about what I went through.

Later,

--Russell

 I know you have my E-mail, and therefore could probably resolve my name; I ask that you do not do this. I have nothing to prove and even less to preach. You can publish this E-mail, if you are so desperate for material; though you seem to have plenty of the real stuff already printed on your site and I don't have the patience to drag these monsters out again. I only ask that you do not include any references to me, I couldn't deal with discussing the church ever again.

 I was born in 1971; nothing spectacular there. I grew up in the church, had no choice. I am sure you are more than acquainted with the "Plain Truth" of what life was like. You were ostracized by your friends, abused by the church and taught that this is the way it should be. I spent the next 18 years of my life in bondage, only breaking free once I became independent. The time I spent allowed me to witness feats of domination (spiritual, physical, mental.. you choose) that would put today's church scandals to shame. Oh well, all in the past right? Eventually I will get over what was done to us...right? Sigh, it could be worse.. of course it could always be worse.

 Anyway, enough whining, I just want to thank you. It is 11:00 at night, here in a little no name town in the southeast. I was bored so I started to look up some info on HWA. It is a testament to the churches control that I expected to hear NOTHING on the entire net but good things about WWCG. I mean, it was God's church right??? Anyway, there is some part of me that I have forced to remain buried. That part hated what was done to us and hated what we helped do to others. I can't seem to dig that little part out. I did not think it even possible until I saw your site and read the E-mails of the former members of WWCG.

 I don't know what to say beyond this, I have no point to this message. I just think this may be giving me some closure a seriously screwed up part of my life and I feel I owe you some thanks for that. So, thanks.. it's kind of painful but maybe it's the stuff I needed to see.

I think I will bookmark this place.

  REPLY:

Thanks for your message.
The pain will get less over the years but be thankful that you will never forget what happened to you. If you forgot it, you might let it happen again.

Best regards,
Editor

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