Email To The Editor
(Page 50)
(Mail from Kooks, Nuts and Loonies is on another page)

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5/27/01

Subject: Bitter Weeds

 Gentlemen, whomever you are heading up this web site:

Have just recently discovered this site and actually have not looked for anything like this because I quit the WWCG back in the late 60's and tried never to look back.

I sense a real thread of bitterness in the writings of contributors to this site and find it rather disconcerting. Of course we were all crapped on but why continue to wallow in it after all these years.

Assuming that you are now atheist, which is your privilege to believe anything you like, I would like to have your opinion on a couple of things. Without religious teachings for moral guidance, what is a nation going to use for moral principles?

Where is a set of moral principles anywhere that is not based upon religious teachings?

Can we continue to be an orderly society without teaching moral principles to our youth?

I live in Olive Branch, Ms., just across the city limits of Memphis, Tn. and the big picture looks very frightening to me. Crime and chaos is rampant and minorities (which are Caucasian mostly) are stampeding to move out of Memphis. Can you tell me how our society is ever going to turn this trend around without instilling a sense of responsibility and integrity into our people? I am not familiar with any moral codes that indoctrinate our people toward goodness to fellow man unless they are based upon some religious belief. Our government has not yet, to my knowledge, mandated such laws. Do we want to become governed by military edict? No, thanks. Been there, done that during the Korean debacle.

Just my thoughts. Not interested in having this reproduced unless you think there is some redeeming value in it, but I would appreciate your comments if you ever have the time and the inclination.

Respectfully, Bob

REPLY:

YOU WROTE:
I sense a real thread of bitterness in the writings of contributors to this site and find it rather disconcerting.

REPLY:
I see no more than righteous indignation at being misled, misused, abused, mind-raped (some really
raped), lied to, stole from, etc., etc..............
If there is any bitterness, it is good because bitterness will protect you from being abused again.
See articles on Bitterness:
bitter.htm
bitterness.htm
Worldwide Church of God: Frequently Asked Questions

YOU WROTE:
Of course we were all crapped on but why continue to wallow in it after all these years.

REPLY:
So people will know the truth. That is what the big thing was, wasn't it? Truth. The Plain Truth?
When did you first "come into the truth?" Well, it wasn't the truth then. This is where people can
come to find out the real plain truth. It is mentally helpful for people to see that the fault was
not with them but with evil human beings who were, and are, only in it for money and power.

So, seems to me that you came to my website, after all these years of being "out," now who the hell
is wallowing? Who is looking back? If I had left in the 1960's, I would have a hefty retirement
fund right now instead of NOTHING, YOU ASSHOLE.

YOU WROTE:
Assuming that you are now atheist,

REPLY:
I don't know how much clearer I can make it that you people are to actually READ THE FAQ before you write to me.

YOU WROTE:
Without religious teachings for moral guidance, what is a nation going to use for moral principles?

REPLY:
I can see by your question that it is only the threat of eternal damnation that is keeping YOU from
crime and chaos. I don't like you "religious types" projecting your own lack of internal morals and
integrity on me.

YOU WROTE:
Where is a set of moral principles anywhere that is not based upon religious teachings?

REPLY:
I could start with my parents. They did not attend any church. (That was my own mistake much later
in life.) They did a very good job of teaching me right from wrong and, besides that, they set a
good example. My mother would drive miles back to a store to give back a few pennies that they had
mistakenly given her as change. Even now, close to death, they do not attend any church or profess
any religion. I don't know of any more moral people. Or harmless. My Father will not even step on an
ugly slug, he will move it off the path. I've seen it.

If you would take the time to read the book, "The God Part of the Brain," you would see there how
the author posits (page 151-152) that we are genetically predisposed to be repulsed by "anti-social"
behavior. Killing, lying, stealing, adultery, are behaviors that are destructive to society.
Consequently, we are just as drawn to behavior that is beneficial to society. It is all a matter of
self-preservation. We are social beings. We live in society. We need to survive, therefore we need
to live in a society that can survive. We do the things that are good for society and avoid the
things that are bad for society because it is good for each of us as individuals.

The problem comes when you project spiritual conceptions on moral ones. You don't need a spiritual
connection to have morals. You do, to some extent, need someone to teach you properly as children.
You need good, moral parents. That is where your problems in society are coming from. You are having problems in the cities because the Liberal politicians, out of the desire to maintain and grow their power and voter base, have made slaves out of poor people by buying their votes with our tax money. They gave them welfare but only when there was no father in the family. They gave them more money for having more babies. They encouraged having babies and having a broken family. You want to find the people responsible for the destruction of our society, look to the liberal politicians. They do not want to solve the problems because they would put themselves out of office. Power is most important to them, just the same as religionists.

YOU WROTE:
Can we continue to be an orderly society without teaching moral principles to our youth?

REPLY:
No.

YOU WROTE:
I am not familiar with any moral codes that indoctrinate our people toward goodness to fellow man unless they are based upon some religious belief.

REPLY:
http://www.infide ls.org/library/modern/nontheism/atheism/morality-and-atheism.html
http://www.infidel s.org/library/modern/niclas_berggren/morality.html
http://www.infide ls.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/ought.html
http://www.infide ls.org/library/modern/mark_vuletic/mfound.html
http://rainfore st.parentsplace.com/dialog/get/newatheist2/23.html
http://www.infid els.org/library/historical/charles_watts/bible_morality.html
http://www.infidels. org/library/magazines/tsr/1994/1/1front94.html
http://www.infidels .org/library/historical/charles_watts/secular_morality.html
http://www.infide ls.org/library/historical/m_d_aletheia/rationalists_manual.html#2.1.14

That will get you started.

Editor

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 hello! Aboutt he guy that has been praying for you to die, ok?!! Why would God kill you? God is Holy.He cannot look upon death.He does not answer prayers that are not in His will....Apparantly that guy that you say is a Christian, if that's what youve seen of Christianity,I have pity on you. That is sad,it almost brings tears to my eyes. Sincerely,"On-Fire 4 God"

 REPLY:

Your god of the Bible is responsible for killing multiple millions of men women and children. Its not too much of a stretch for this good Christian to want to influence this "Holy Terror" god of his to see things his way and squash one more little bug of a human being.

Just go away. You are so brainwashed you are pathetic. You bring revulsion to my stomach not tears to my eyes.

I truly feel sorry for you.

Editor

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 John O quoted Blade-456 as saying

"Currently I've abandoned all hope that anyone knows what this is all about (life)? Religion surely does not hold any answers, I even wrestle with the question of ?Is here a God??. Part of me thinks not but part of me hopes so, surely there's more to life than this.?"

  and in part replied:

 "While we continue to probe, we must continue to think. Many have said: ?John, you?re just speculating again,? but, lemme ask the question. Where did that idea come from? Think about it. I?m not a creator of ideas. I?m not THAT infinite. I cannot generate ideas of my self. I?m NOT an idea creator. If an idea comes, it comes from somewhere, and therefore it MUST exist in some time, space, or continuum. The idea exists, because some Infinite thot behind it does."

 A book-length argument against the notion that ideas do not come from us, that we are not idea creators, can be found in WHERE DOES MATHEMATICS COME FROM? If I understood correctly, a summary might be:

Historically, mathematics has intuitively been considered universally true, in fact some have thought it a universal enough language that it can appropriately be used as an attempt at preliminary communication with putative extraterrestrial civilizations [e.g., some of the content of the "golden phonograph" attached to Voyager spacecraft].

Though that universality suggests transcendence to some, a substantial amount of recent experimental data from cognitive psychology suggests that mathematics comes from the way our central nervous system is constructed and operates, and so is not at all universal.

(Incidentally, if the book is right, that really screws up just about all of our attempts at CETI unless the aliens are just about exactly like us).

Admittedly, not all ideas are mathematical ones, but many of them do seem to me to be just about maximally abstract as far as human ideas go (e.g., a Banach Space), and obviously I cannot think nonhuman thoughts. So if the most abstract human ideas are artifacts of our nervous systems, surely the more concrete ones are.

Maybe John O or somebody else will jump on me with both feet, possibly the first questions being something like "OK, so how many abstraction points does a Banach Space get? 19, you say? How about justice? Only 16??? Why not 19 or maybe 21? Love? Humor? Abstraction itself? Just what is an abstraction point, anyway, and how do you count them up?"

I'm not prepared to answer those questions. But I did want to point out that there are some fairly forcefully argued alternatives to that one part of John O's answer.

Blade-56's questions are, of course quite big ones. At least John O took a stab at addressing them, which I am not willing to do at the moment. So, even though I carped a little at one of your points, John O, goodonya!

-Todd  

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Please post this link. This article "The Real Cause of the Race Crisis" by HWA shows what a racist bastard HWA really is.

He tries to prove that the White race is a Pure-Breed and that Asians and Blacks are "Mutations". He tries to prove that Adam and Jesus where white. He says that the reason for the flood was because people where marrying people of a different color and that was against God's Law. He explains that Noah's two sons where married to a Black woman and an Asian woman and that is how we have our different races. My question then is if God caused the flood to get rid of the people marrying people of a different color than why did he let Noah's sons and their wives live on the ark?

He also is for segregation. He says discrimination is wrong but segregation comes from God.

Don't take my word for it. Read it yourself prove everything.

Please don't use my real name but sign this H56.

Thanks!

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Here's to Kenneth Grove..... kennyg@stratos.net

 YOU THINK THIS IS BAD!!!!! YOU THINK THAT THE PEOPLE HERE ARE ROTTEN AND HAVE COLD SPIRITS!!!!!!!??????? YOU THINK THEY HAVE HARD AND ABUSIVE LANGUAGE!?!?!?!?!??!?!

 These people are civilized, sir, (and I use that term "Sir" veeerryy lightly right now....)

Go HERE to see someone who will put you in your proper place...... In the flushing action of my mental toilet ya idiot.....

With the warmest regards,

MikeM

 Go HERE, shit-for-brains, and get a dose of real-time attitude-calibration. These people on the Painful Truth are more civilized, but only when not provoked by ignorant jerkwads like you....

http:/ /members.aol.com/nogo dhere/index.html

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 hi. i have just been to your site. and i would say that i find it rather interesting. i know the history of the World Wide Church of God. and it truely isn't the most plesent of ones. but that doesn't mean that you can just "bash" organized religion all together. if a black person were to put up a site bashing their bad history with a white person, saying that all white people are bad, they would be a racist. your just ignorant. i do know something, not "SQUAT". i know that Jesus goes beyond religion, he goes to our very circumstances. he goes straight into our lives. i accepted him when i KNEW he was real. for myself. when i made a connection with him. you obviously didn't know what the relationship with Christ was supposed to be when you were baptized. God doesn't answer prayers immediatly. he doesn't just "accomodate" to you whenever you break a nail. it takes some time. i just see this when i read over your site. your frustrated. and you gave up. i once gave up on Christ too. but after a long time of not truely believing, i was in emotional pain. my life too had fallen appart. and i finally broke down, and i prayed. and the very next day he revealed himself to me. don't give up so easily. don't laugh at christians either. cause you even said, that you don't like hate mail and certain consequences would be upon anyone if they sent you any. when clearly your website, is hateful of organized religion. so then you deserve all the hate mail you get. thats the price you pay when you are ingnorant. you rile people up. and if you expect no one to say anything about it. that makes you a bigger ingnorant. hiding behind the FBI and your little "we will post your hate mail and we will post your name and your email address. We will not take it down. Ever." that just makes you a coward. i hope to get a reply to this. i do respect your opinions, but i don't agree with your organized religion bashing, and the rest of that kind of junk. you can tell your story, i think everyone has that right. but denoucing every christian and their belief system is just low.

your brother through christ (believe it or not).

 REPLY:

YOU WROTE:
. i know the history of the World Wide Church of God. and it truely isn't the most plesent of ones.
but that doesn't mean that you can just "bash" organized religion all together.

REPLY:
So, who died and made you the one to decide who can bash what?

YOU WROTE:
if a black person were to put up a site bashing their bad history with a white person, saying that
all white people are bad, they would be a racist.

REPLY:
Where did I say that all Christians are bad? Where did I say that any Christians are bad simply
because they are Christians? I don't write all the articles on this site. In fact, I write very few.

YOU WROTE:
your just ignorant.

REPLY:
I may be ignorant, but at least I can spell and punctuate correctly. Where does that leave you?

YOU WROTE:
". i know that Jesus goes beyond religion, he goes to our very circumstances. he goes straight into
our lives.

REPLY:
Can you prove that? Has he talked to you? Have you seen him?

YOU WROTE:
God doesn't answer prayers immediatly. he doesn't just "accomodate" to you whenever you break a
nail. it takes some time.

REPLY:
Well, that is a good excuse for an ineffective and impotent "god." This is a god that is not much
good for anyone. When you get down to it, you can't count on your god doing much good for you in
this life, can you? The only good this so called god does for you is give you some hope for a life
after death and there is absolutely no proof of that at all.

YOU WROTE:
and i prayed. and the very next day he revealed himself to me.

REPLY:
What good does that do for anyone? I see a lot of problems in this world and I think that any god
worth worshipping would be trying to help people other than just "revealing himself." We really need
a god that will help people in desperate situations, not "flash" them.
Did you see the video tape of the Jewish wedding celebration, yesterday, where the celebrants were
dancing and having a good time when the floor fell three stories from under them and at least 24
were killed? Why would your god be wasting his time revealing himself to you or some other person
when he could have been helping some people that really needed his intervention?

YOU WROTE:
so then you deserve all the hate mail you get.

REPLY:
Now, that is just so loving of you. Is that what your friend Jesus told you to say to me? Is he now
proud of you?

YOU WROTE:
 thats the price you pay when you are ingnorant.

REPLY:
Oh yes, I can clearly see that I am the one that is ignorant here.

YOU WROTE:
i do respect your  opinions, but i don't agree with your organized religion bashing, and the rest of
that kind of junk.

REPLY:
If you don't like a website, do what I do when I don't like a website, just never go there again. If
you keep going to my site, you will find out the truth about organized religion and before you know
it, you will be able to think for yourself. That will not be good, will it?

YOU WROTE:
but denoucing every christian and their belief system is just low.

REPLY:
I do not denounce Christians, other than ministers. I do not denounce their belief system; I reveal the truth about it. If truth bothers you, I'm sorry. I'm sorry for you, not for revealing the truth.
I pity you. I wish that I could grab you and shake you awake from your drunken stupor of religious addiction; but, I can't.

The truth is that you Christians believe things that you have absolutely NO proof at all as to their factualness. You believe the bible is god's word; you have no proof of that. You believe in Jesus but there is no proof that the Jesus of the bible ever existed. You have every right to believe those things. You can also believe that the Easter Bunny answers your prayers. Doesn't bother me a bit; just don't try to promote your "beliefs" as facts. When I was a christian, that was my main
problem, I thought that I had "proven all things" but I was just taking other people's teachings to be the truth. When you start to look into this religion business, you will find that that is exactly what it is: a business. And, if it wasn't protected by the Constitution, it would be labeled as the Con-game that it really is and these "ministers" would be thrown in jail, where they belong. What it
boils down to is unscrupulous, some possibly evil, people selling heavenly swampland to weak, fearful, mostly good people.

Believe what you want. I suggest that you start your own website and put your beliefs on it. Then, wait for me to surf to it and write you email complaining about it. Fast and pray, don't drink any beer and don't have any sex until I get there.

Your brother in spite of Christ,
Editor

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