Email To The Editor
(Page 62)
(Mail from Kooks, Nuts and Loonies is on another page)
Dear Editor.
I shall write a few more incidents in the coming days.
Here I wish to point out a probability:
Herbert W. Armstrong wrote that he had read a few times the autobiography of Benjamin Franklin. I read it once in '87. Franklin admitted unlike, Herbert W. Armstrong, that his efforts to lead a righteous life was a failure. This admission points up his sincerity of heart.
Being experienced in publishing, Franklin had wanted to print a magazine. The name of the publication he came up with, out of his own creative resources of his mind, was Plain Truth.( I am strongly convicted that Franklin would have written the truth, had he published the Plain Truth because of the sincerity of his heart)
My feeling is that, given the shady character of HWA, he lifted the name "Plain Truth" from the autobiography of Franklin. I read the writings of HWA and the publication of WCG for nearly thirteen years. Never for once did I read any mention by HWA that the name of his magazine was identical with the proposed title for the unpublished magazine of Franklin. There wasn't the slightest hint that the names coincided. And HWA read the autobiography a number of times. Shortly after his marriage to Ramona, HWA wrote in the Good News that it was quite pleasurable to engage in marital congress.
If HWA wrote about such deeply personal and intimate thoughts of his heart, why didn't he ever mention that the name of his magazine happened to coincide with the proposed title of the unpublished magazine of one of the founding fathers of America, a truly great man of America.
I am convicted that HWA committed nothing less than plagiarism.
I have been interrupted. I shall write later.
Best Regards Jaget
Dear Mr. Gray,
Just to help you out a bit....
Slander is the act of publicly, or privately if you get caught, SPEAKING lies about someone.
Libel is the act of WRITING lies about someone.
You cannot read slander, you cannot hear libel. Following? Okay...
If someone is writing or speaking about something that is the TRUTH, neither slander nor libel has been committed. You can neither libel, nor slander by speaking or writing truth.
If you read anything about Mr. Herbert Armstrong on the Painful Truth website, there are only two possibilities; you were reading LIBEL or you were reading TRUTH.
To win a defamation of character lawsuit against anything said against Mr. Herbert Armstrong, his heirs and interested parties would have to be able to prove in a court of law that the many, many allegations leveled against this scoundrel are lies. That means, among other things, that someone would have to get his daughter Dorothy to come to the witness stand and testify that she was NEVER molested or improperly fondled by her father in her entire life. Even once.
Does that sound outrageous to you? Guilty until proven innocent? Sorry if it does, but this is the real world, and that's how it really is. So, the likelihood of any of them stepping forward to challenge any of this is remote indeed. Besides, Armstrong's heirs are too busy living the life of ease your twenty-five years of financial sacrifice has so conveniently provided for them. Would that you were one-tenth as comfortable as they are now, in your declining years of increasing personal need.
I know how painful this all must be to you. If you weren't somehow, somewhere deep inside of yourself afraid that all this is truth, you wouldn't have been upset enough to write a rejection letter to the editor of the Painful Truth website. All this crap was very painful for me in the beginning too. One of my most difficult realizations in my life was that God, Whoever it was that created me, would allow ME to be deceived when all I ever wanted was to be a good person, love, and be loved by God.
If you can handle it, keep reading. Truth holds up well to scrutiny. Bullcrap does not. Remember; fools die lonely.
As my teens would say, "Hang in there, Duders!"
Warmly Yours, Dana
Thank you so much for your website. I probably would not have found it if I hadn't, also, stumbled upon Robert McNally's website. I took the plunge and sent an email to him a couple of weeks ago regarding my 20-year WCG incarceration. (I had never participated in websites such as these before.)
I, also, if I had read your "Frequently Asked Questions" first, might not have tried to publish my book manuscript ("Dare To Think For Yourself") since you and I agree on many things. Reading what you have written is at times like reading my own thoughts. I, however, am now an atheist, having evolved through much reading, research and reason, from christian to deist to agnostic and finally atheist. (Fred, my husband of almost 38 years and former WCG pastor, is still a christian and is now a Lutheran Church elder.) I "served" as secretary to HWA and GTA for two short periods of time before Fred was ordained in 1966 (I think) and sent to the Pacific Northwest for a number of years.
The manuscript mentioned started out as part of my "journaling" discipline. It was a long, arduous task but a great catharsis for me. It is not a WCG expose (although some of my WCG and AC experiences are mentioned.) It is a simple challenge to everyone to dare to think for themselves rather than follow blindly someone else's "truth." You yourself do this very well.
Anyway, it's nice, but also sad, to realize that we ex-WCGers are truly not alone in our experience with deception and manipulation. There are so many of us, but we understand one another. We can empathize and still learn and grow into mature, savvy individuals with respect to religion of any sort.
(By the way, quite a few people have asked, since my email posting on Mr McNally's site, if my book has been published yet. No, it hasn't; but another published author/editor [not an ex-WCGer] is putting it on his website within a few weeks [or months]. He is hoping that web exposure will eventually turn the manuscript into a "real" book--but I'm not holding my breath!)
Sincerely,
Betty
As an informal student of cultism, this site i found very informative. I had no idea that HWA was such a louse, and thought that sexual proclivities were confine to his son. I also thought that the WWCoG was turning into an evangelical movement, and am surprised to read about all the lives in shambles they have left behind.
Thanks again!
REPLY:
Dave,
Thanks for your message.
Kind of a surprise to see a "church of Jesus" acting so un-Christ-like huh? That is one of the purposes of the website: to expose the WCG and its daughter churches for what they really are: businesses preying on good people who are afraid of the unknown.
Editor
Editor:
I am truly sorry that you have become embittered with a "god" that doesn't seem to care. Its not hard to look around at the world, and realize that all the pain and suffering that humanity endures seems to have no god at the helm. I see the "evidence" of a seemingly loveless god, and also can relate to your position.
Like you, I became associated with the WWCG in about 1970. I was 12, and delved right into all the Bible Studies, Correspondence Courses and stayed associated with them, up until 1995, when all the major changes occurred. At that point, it wasn't because of the doctorine changes that I left, but because my wife left me, and the commute to church 50 miles away was too much for the old car.
The point of this e-mail is to share a little something with you, that bolstered and continues to uphold my belief in an active and loving God. And no, I don't know why those frail starving people aren't cared for by the same God that I believe in, no I dont have the answers. You asked for answers or proof in a God, rather than strange coincidences that might form our life. I suppose any story I therefore share with you might be construed as a simple coincidence. But I don't think so.
When my wife left in 1995, I owned a failing business. Once thriving and with employees in the mid 80s, I decided that family and wife was far more important than the 12 hour work days that made my business so successful. So I cut back to 8 hours a day, and was home every night at 5:20pm to find my wife (who suffered from depression) curled up watching tv, and no thought about making supper. I rallied, and we jointly made supper and served by 6:30pm. Our 3 young daughters were raised in the church, and despite their depressive mother, did very well with a balanced family atmosphere. Essentially, my wife and I had a happy relationshipwe were best friends, did everything together, jogged, prayed and played together. Her depression was her own internal hell, her thoughts tormented her, but our family was intact. She shared her thoughts, thoughts of other men, thoughts of escaping, things that tormented her unrealistically.
When she could no longer tolerate her internal thoughts, she tried councelling, the minister told her in no uncertain terms that she couldn't break the vow of our marriage. She was looking for any valid reason to leave me and pursue her lost youth (whom her incestuous father robbed her of). She told me that if we couldn't end our marriage someday, she felt that she'd go nuts and do something like have an affair, and really wreck us both and our children. About that time the church was in upheaval and far away (50 miles) so we quit attending and I calmly told her that we can give it one more year and wait for a loving God to intervene and solve her head problems.
God didn't. So a year later I packed my bags and moved out of our farmhouse. I moved into my office until I could find an apartment. I was sad that I lost a wife I loved more than life just about, but happy that God would provide something better. Often we don't know what "better" is. Is it another wife? You lost your wife to illness, something that neither you nor her could stop. I lost my wife also, to a mental problem that she couldn't immediately solve. And shes still under my nose, living and breathing, living with a man 23 years older than her, raising our daughters, now almost all teens.
I had to "kill" the romantic love I felt for her and still deal with her, and I still like her but feel nothing romantic anymore, toward her. In the last 7 years alone, I have not met anyone special, and only dated two woman, each for 3 months. And I still look back with very fond memories of those happy years spent with her. And I thank God for those years, even though I could be bitter.
Ok, I know this email seems long, but there is so many facets to this story and they all intertwine. I will keep to the major points I have told you about just my marriage, but in similar fashion, I then lost all the following in just a few months.
That is: I lost my wife, my children, my business (prestige and esteem in the business community), my income, my church, my car, my house.
Where did that leave me? Sleeping in a $300 dollar car at a truck stop in Detroit Mi, 300 miles from my former home. The car was my home for several months. The local YMCA was my shower facility each morning. I got a job with a very prestigious piano store, tuning pianos and making very very good money, (although I was so far behind the 8 ball by this point that the short time I did this about a year) didn't help too much. I managed to get a car comparable to what my wife and I drove, and every weekend I came back to see my children. The car averaged 1000 miles per week. Finally I couldn't take the pressure, being alone and driving all that distance to see my kids. Where was God? I knew he was still in control and I KNEW I had to move back and possibly go to jail for non payment of Child support as no job could ever pay that much support. (the average wage here is about 8 bucks an hour, Detroit was paying me $28 per hour) But I knew God was in charge. I moved back into the old farmhouse that I had continued making payments on while trying to sell it. My wife had moved out months earlier, not able to maintain it. I made my support payments which now were at 60% of my income, taxes were 27% leaving me with roughly $2.00 per hour to make a house and car payment on. Obviously I couldn't make any payments, having to buy food and keep electricity turned on.
I prayed to God continually, (no they weren't desperate pleas, I wasn't in anguish anymore, I had lost just about everything that meant anything to me a few years earlier). The bank sent foreclosure notice in September of that year, they would take over the property December 12th. I watched the days tick by, waiting on God to do something, not worried, because I had slept in my car before, and could do it again. I was on the treadmill at the YMCA that Saturday morning when my ex-wife burst into the gym, crying,,,,told me my house had just burned down. I just shrugged, and said, "thats ok, that makes just about everything complete" I asked her why she was crying, she said "well it was MY house too, we raised our kids there" Her boyfriend and her drove out, as I did, when we arrived the house was merely "gutted" but still standing. This was Novemeber 12th, one month away from foreclosure.
No, I didn't have insurance. It had been cancelled years earlier because of the poor condition of the house. An "fire chaser" fellow showed up at the scene and started asking me questions. I told him that the property was being seized in a month anyway, and not to worry about anything. He did some digging with the bank and found out that the house was covered by "debt insurance" something that kicked in when my regular insurance was dropped. And because it was factored into the mortgage payment, the premium was actually being paid by ME, not the bank. Guess what? The insurance PAID OFF the outstanding balance owed against the property, and turned the property over to me free and clear. And there was a surplus of money that bought me a brand new motorcycle, (something I had dreamed of someday owning).
So from foreclosure possiblities to owning the property with no mortgage payments for the next 15 years, I'd say God brought me to the brink.
Is it coincidence? You might think so. But just about every dream that I had when I was 12 is coming true for me. I still don't have a wife, but I am very good friends with a few Christian woman that knew me before I was ever divorced.
One more thing. That whole Detroit stint, was that all out of Gods control that I went there? In just that short time, I earned a reputation among some of the top musicians in the country at one of the leading Steinway Piano galleries. My first day in Detroit, just before starting my first day on the job, I sat next to an old man in a diner who asked what I did for a living. I told him that I was starting with this large piano store as a piano tuner. He then told me that he was the father of the the president of Steinway Pianos on Long Island. (I laughed inside, thinking this had to be a lie) Later, I sent a letter to Steinway telling the president that I had met his father in a diner. The president at Steinway sent me a nice letter back, inviting me to visit their factory. I made the trip and was shown around the factory.
And so, tonight as I conclude this letter Saturday April 13, I'm packing for a trip to Detroit where I'm helping a former co worker set up a new piano store in a Detroit suburb.
My life is great, and although I had a very big dose of loss a few years ago, I DO believe in a God that can and does reward. But He isn't a little puppet to me that simply does my bidding. I will take whatever He dishes out with no fear. I've personally lost just about everything, and unless you (as a 40 year old former business man) have slept in your car, you wouldn't have a clue as to what I went through. Incidentally I had no fear of being robbed or beaten up, while sleeping in my car, and carried no weapons, nor was I ever threatened in any way during my stay in my mobile hotel.
Whether its the WWCG or some other church, churches are a place of imperfection, misuses of power and other negative things. Christ, however admonished people to get together and pray, worship and support each other. I have not attended any church for the last 7 years, but do pray to the God that loves me. And I know that His book suggests that its a good idea to get with Christians, so I am slowly getting reacclamated to the idea of fellowship at some church again. Life has been a trip for me, and I can see everything following a plan, (although at the time, it didn't seem like any of this could be God's will) and I continue to trust in God to guide my path. I know of NO other way to live, you either have to beleive that there is a caring God, or it would seem better not to believe in any god, just believe in ones own self and making your own way to your death 75 years down the road.
It's my sincere hope that some day you can have an experience that will reshape your view of an seemingly uncaring God. If you quit looking for "evidence" and just put one foot in front of the other, knowing that God is there (as the book says, unless thats a total lie too)you may just look back someday, reflect and SEE the same type of "evidence" that I found that shocked me into the total belief in our God.
Daryl
REPLY:
Daryl,
Sorry, just coincidences and luck and maybe some synchronicity.
If you had been in one of the top floors of the World Trade Center on last Sept. 11th, you might have wondered where your loving god was as you had to decide whether to jump or burn. Your "interventions" by "god" are merely you looking for good experiences to give god credit for and ignoring all the shit that happens too. God gets the credit for the good things and you have to learn some lessons for the bad things. Just a lot of BS to not have to really accept the fact that there is no god looking out for any of us. If it makes you happy, well good for you. I prefer to use my brain. If god is in charge, he ought to be in jail for neglect.
Editor
First of all, I fully understand your position. I've struggled with certain aspects of the way certain Christians act, but have come up with different conclusions. I'm curious, however, if you're against the Catholic Church, or all of Christianity in general. Because, if you look at Christianity as a whole, it encompasses a huge amount of different practices and beliefs. The Catholics, for example, have a radically different view of the Bible than do the Baptists or the Methodists. Also, I'm curious how you consider the word of God and idol. I can see how when people protect it from harm as though it were a human, but then agian, it is the word of God. That's my rant for the night, have a blessed day, good night.
Michael
REPLY:
YOU WROTE: I'm curious, however, if you're against the Catholic Church, or all of Christianity in general.
REPLY: All religion, in general.
YOU WROTE: Also, I'm curious how you consider the word of God and idol.
REPLY: Since Christians get their beliefs out of a book which cannot be proven to be authored or inspired by any deity, (In fact it is much easier to disprove it, unless the god is a complete idiot and no smarter than the people that It is "inspiring" to write the book.) they must put their complete faith, reverence and trust in this book. That is worship. Worship of the book must come before worship of the god of the book, otherwise people would not accept such an evil god as is portrayed in the book.
Worship: 1 chiefly Brit : a person of importance used as a title for officials 2 : reverence toward a divine being or supernatural power; also : the expression of such reverence 3 : extravagant respect or admiration or devotion
(c)2000 Zane Publishing, Inc. and Merriam-Webster, Incorporated. All rights reserved.Since all your religious beliefs come out of this book, it has to be, at least, as much revered as the god it purports to reveal. Without your reverence for the book, you could not believe in your god. In fact, your Jesus cannot be found anywhere in reputable secular history. Therefore, you worship a book. I don't think that is too hard to figure out if you will just think about it. Then, if you will continue to think, you will investigate whether or not this book is something worthy of your worship.
You have ruled out all other books as not being from any god worth worshipping. What was/is your criteria for doing that? Why don't you apply the same criteria to this other book, the bible? Why would any god expect us to believe and worship It without any logical, irrefutable proof? Is "god's" criteria for a good worshipper, someone who will believe anything he is told simply because a lot of other people believe it?
I have rejected the bible because I know it and I have examined it objectively and rationally. I would say that most people that worship the bible do not know it, have not examined it and are afraid to question it on threat of eternal damnation.
The Hawaiians, when the Christians set about to convert them, said that "their god was in a black box." How right they were.
Editor
You need to get the whole story before you rant about things. I am a Catholic, among many other religions, and I will tell you that Catholics do not worship idols. They HONOR saints, Mary, and so forth, because they represent good models to follow, and they believe they are close to God in heaven and therefore pray to what appears to be them but is really to God through them.
The same idea is found in most forms of Buddhism, where they only honor Buddha as a model of excellence, not worship him, or in Islam with Mohammed. Also, I believe the point of not worshipping idols is really not to stray from the Great Truth. There is nothing wrong with Hinduism, for an intelligent open-minded person will see that whether a single God, multiple Gods, or an impersonal "essence" is worshipped or honored, it all boils down to the same thing.
Gandalf
REPLY:
Well, Gandalf, you might want to let me know just what the hell you are ranting about before you complain about my ranting. I have 1500 pages and you may be complaining about one of them.
YOU WROTE: I am a Catholic, among many other religions
REPLY: I was also a catholic and I didn't realize I could be a catholic AND other religions. I thought Catholicism was the one and only true church.
YOU WROTE: I will tell you that Catholics do not worship idols.
REPLY: I will tell you that whatever you bow down to, you worship.
YOU WROTE: an intelligent open-minded person will see that whether a single God, multiple Gods, or an impersonal "essence" is worshipped or honored, it all boils down to the same thing.
REPLY: I agree. As an intelligent, open-minded person I see that it all boils down to ALL religions being just a bunch of bullshit. They are all worshipping the same imaginary god that, if it actually exists, has hidden itself from mankind and has not shown the slightest bit of caring compassion for mankind in all of human history. Go to my Acts of God page and show me a god that cares about mankind.
Editor
REPLY:
You are suffering, you need to resume your search for the Great Truth, instead of always finding the petty truths. Obviously, Catholicism was not for you, because you have trouble accepting that there is a loving God that decides to stay out of our day to day or worldly affairs. Perhaps an Eastern religion would be more suited for you. You see religion for its surface value, and that encourages much skepticism. Praying is not supposed to be a selfish attempt to get God to do stuff, it is, like Buddhist meditation, an inner search of oneself and an outer search of the Great Truth. I will give you this, the God many people imagine of playing puppet with our lives does not exist, you are right about that. Instead, I try and find the deeper meaning and the reasoning behing religions and religious practices and teachings. Obviousl! y, I don't think there's one right way, in fact I believe finding and incorporating other cultures and religions into ones own path is one of the most spiritually and worldly healthy things one can do.
REPLY:
YOU WROTE: You are suffering,
REPLY: No, I'm quite happy, thank you.
YOU WROTE: you need to resume your search for the Great Truth
REPLY: Why is it up to the lost child to find its' parent? I've wasted enough of my life trying to find and worship this god that wants to remain hidden from me. I'm here, ready and willing to follow and obey whenever IT wants to come and identify ITself.
YOU WROTE: because you have trouble accepting that there is a loving God that decides to stay out of our day to day or worldly affairs
REPLY: Sorry, but there is no evidence for what you want to believe. You are just making up excuses for this uncaring, unloving god.
YOU WROTE: Perhaps an Eastern religion would be more suited for you
REPLY: You don't seem to understand that I want NOTHING to do with any FUCKING religion. I don't NEED them. So, don't force your needs or desires or beliefs or religions, which are all the same thing, on me.
The greater truth is that no religion can prove anything that it believes is "The Truth." They, and you, have your ideas of who, what, where, etc. God is but they are all just your IDEAS. You believe what you want because you WANT to believe it. Some people, like yourself, need to convince themselves that there is a god that cares about them otherwise they would go crazy. I prefer to accept the obvious and live my life accordingly, knowing that I can only rely on myself and my family. At least I am not living in a dream world. I don't have to make excuses for a god that is useless, as you do.
Now, leave me alone.
Editor
REPLY:
You seem to be having trouble with the concept of an impersonal god. In essense one might say that it is just like not believing in a god. Forget all your preconceptions about religions believing in a god somewhere that does or doesn't do stuff for them or that exists as a being at all.
Take the Hindu idea of the Self, for instance. It basically is the idea that all beings are one, part of the same living force I guess you could call it. Now I'm not trying to force this idea or any other on you, not even ones that I think you would be more receptive of.
Don't you think it is at least somewhat sad, that you live your life and die and that's it? I'm not talking about an afterlife, I'm talking about a meaning to this one. I'm not living in a dream world, and I don't believe in useless gods, because I don't expect anything from them. I guess you could say I don't believe in Him either. I just think that there has to be some reason to my existance, some answers to those questions that none of us can answer. For many, they cast these off with religion and god, but I pile them on my shoulders with it, because I refuse to believe that I am useless.
REPLY:
YOU WROTE: You seem to be having trouble with the concept of an impersonal god.
REPLY: No, I don't have a problem with an impersonal god. This god will just have to get used to my being "impersonal" to IT. I'm not going to waste my life trying to find IT or trying to figure IT out. My life is too short to search out all the possible religions and beliefs and try to see which one might fit the god that I want to worship.
YOU WROTE: not even ones that I think you would be more receptive of.
REPLY: There are none that I would be receptive to. These are all imaginary dream gods that people invent in their addled brains. "God is like this." "God wants us to do this......."
YOU WROTE: I refuse to believe that I am useless
REPLY: Your problem is that you invent an imaginary god to prove that you are not useless. To paraphrase the saying: mankind cannot create a little bug but has created gods by the hundreds.
It is your god that is useless, not yourself. But, you make yourself useless by living in a dream world, following a god that you admit is impersonal, meaning not involved emotionally with you. That is what impersonal means. Impersonal means this god does NOT love you or anyone else.
Now, go find someone who cares about your impersonal god. I don't and there is nothing that you can say that will make me turn off my brain and become like you.
Editor
REPLY:
It sounds like you already turned off your brain. You understood not a single word I said. Not all religions worship a god, and with those that do the god or what they say it's like is not important and might as well not exist, you are right.
I understand where you are coming from, many many people believe in their religion and live in a dreamworld like you said, and that leads to many other horrible things. I, however, believe that all these religions are one, that all their created gods are the same, which is just like not believing in them individually if you think about it.
For all intents, anyway, because I know you won't get that last line past your preconceptions of religion, let's say like you I don't believe in god, because it's a lot like that. Like you, and unlike many misguided souls, I don't need to believe in a "usefull" god that will do this or that for me, or that is emotionally involved with me.
What I suggest you do, though, which I suspect you already have done in a much different way, I something I have done and am doing, because there are constant connections. It is to find what these many different religions have in common. I suppose you have already done that and found that they all worship some god pointlessly and throw their lives away. I implore you to investigate such religions as Buddhism and Confucianism, though, which do not believe in a god. There your link and your gripe ends, and I also think that some bit of understanding may begin.
Through the many links I have found, the biggest and most important one is hidden most in the western religions which you are familiar with, and that is that everything is of the same essence or eternal source, and just like the cycle of water it will always return to it.
REPLY:
What part of "leave me alone" don't you get? I must say that you are one sanctimonious, blithering idiot.
Some may need a religion that worships an imaginary god; I don't. You may need a religion that doesn't worship any god; I don't.
I have a life, you obviously do not.
Any further messages from your IP address will be blocked so please waste a lot of your time trying to get in the last word.
Editor
To whom it may concern,
My husband is a former member of the world wide church of god. My husband and I are currently separated because he is very abusive to my children. I have 3 girls, by a previous marriage. Their ages are 13, 11 and 9. My husband believes in swearing and yelling at them and calling them all kinds of names. He also does the same thing to me. He tells us all the time that we are sinners and worthless. He tells them that he is going to knock their teeth down their throat and he spanks them very hard. He tells us all, that we are evil and satin is our father. He says that he is a Christian. How can this be? Is this the way that the church taught parents to treat their families? He is also a recovering alcoholic. He's been completely sober for almost 3 years, but he still has a lot of anger. His dad left him when he was 5 years old. Is his problem caused from the alcohol or the church? Please e-mail me back and give me some answers.
Name withheld
REPLY:
Susie, I think you are doing the right thing by separating yourself from an abusive situation. Nobody has the right to abuse someone else and you especially have to protect your children because they cannot do it themselves. I would get counseling on what your next step should be. You must protect your children above all else. What they are going through right now will shape their whole lives, if they live through it.
Christians can be very abusive, especially to women, simply because they get it all out of the bible. It is the supreme feeling of having all the answers and being close to god and knowing what god wants. The bible looks at women as property to be used and abused as a man wants. Just one more proof that the bible was written by men and not by a god.
I would say that his problem is not alcohol, since he is not drinking.
The problem is not one church in particular, although those that take the bible literally have more reasons to despise other people, especially women.
Your problem here is that you are involved with an abusive person and you are not going to change him.
Do what you have to do.
Editor
Hello Editor
I'm glad you've got the link fixed, but I really wanted to say THANK YOU for all your incredible efforts you're putting into you website. Believe me, your website (it's been little over a year now, since I've "discovered" your site) has really changed my life literally! It's just too bad that I haven't seen all of this much earlier, especially the Ambassador Reports, (started attending in '76 til '96) in order to be spared from the financial losses (savings & retirement) and would've had a much happier (and sane) life! Keep up the good "work" ;-)
Best Regards, Davd
Editor,
Hello,my name is Mitch. I read some of your writings and I agree with most of the stuff. I came in the church in Aug. 1986. I didn't know diddly about Herb and anyone else. Seen the telecast and the PT and started to read the bible for the first time in my life. I was raised Catholic. Spent 5 years in the Air Force 1976-1981. Been to Korea, Germany, England, and various areas in the U.S. My wife who I met in the church has been in since 1969. She has told me how the church was in times past. I have met many people like yourself with stories of the church and it's contents[ministers]. Bunch of crap!! We have experienced the WCG,UCG, and now independent. And very happy. I am not in your shoes, so I don't understand your pain or bitterness. Being a veteran I enjoy meeting other vets and chewing the fat.
I hope that someday we will all be able to get together and teach each other. I have a backgroud growing up that is not a happy one to chat about. The church is sad too!! I wish you were in my congregation to learn from. The positive side of life. I don't know if this makes any sense I apologize.
Mitch
Editor,
Here is a good answer to why we want the Painful Truth website to be filled with the true horror stories of Herbie's grand perversion: http://www.rense.com/general24/lifelonghorror.htm
This is why we want the PT website never to shut down, why we keep writing articles, why we refuse to "get over it." When I was captive in the clutches of the mind-raping cultmasters I would pray daily and sincerely for God's Kingdom to come, to save the innocent, helpless, deceived masses of humanity before they all died. If I were ever to pray again, my new prayer would be what I found on Acharya S.'s home page: "God, protect me from your followers."
Bill Fairchild
Mr. Kiefer
I read your article on "Lifelong Horror Of Priest's Rape Of 13 Year Old Girl" http://www.rense.com/general24/lifelonghorror.htm
I can sympathize with the feelings of the lady who was raped by her minister and then felt raped again by the denial of wrong and placing the blame on her by the church. As you know, this is nothing new and it is not confined to physical rape. Churches can get away with just about anything short of murder. And even "murder" can be gotten away with if you can call teaching people that it is wrong to go to doctors and, as a result, they die, murder. I do call it murder, and it happened to uncountable people in the Worldwide Church of God.
The Worldwide Church of God, of Pasadena, CA, a cult for sixty years (1934-1994 approximately), ruined countless thousands of lives by their teachings and now, in the past eight years has found a new "Jesus" and has now mainstreamed itself. It is selling all the property, worth millions of dollars, that was purchased with "old" cult/fear/guilt induced donations and will use the money to feather it's new nest and pay for the retirements of its past, abusive, cultic ministers, some of whom are still employed by the WCG. This, instead of trying to right all the wrongs that it has done, in the name of God. Their victims are still alive. These are not abuses that nothing can be done to fix or to heal. There are many former members that are sick to this day, mentally and physically, because of the cultic teachings of this church. Many people died because of the teachings of this church regarding "healing." Countless people had their lives ruined by the teaching regarding divorce and remarriage. There are people that gave their all, including money that they should have been saving for their retirement, who will not be able to retire because this old money will be used to pay for the "minister's" retirement. I could go on and on; see my Ministerial Apology page for a list of all the things that this "church of god" did to people, and there is no accountability.
The church has been welcomed with open arms into mainstream Christianity. Mainstream Christianity finds it very easy to forgive the Worldwide Church of God of its past sins since they were never abused and harmed by this cult. The WCG now has the stamp of approval of these other churches without any requirement that it go back and help all the people that it damaged. Is this what Jesus is all about? These churches might well ask themselves "what would Jesus do?" before deciding that a cult can now be recognized as a mainstream church with no other qualification other than it be teaching the standard teachings. Wouldn't you think that a real church of Jesus, after it recognized all its multiple evils that it had perpetrated on thousands of people's lives, would determine to use every penny of its accumulated wealth, which is in the millions, blackmailed out of god-fearing members, to go back and find these people (they have computer records) and see what they can do to heal these people with their own money? Well, that may be what any decent thinking person would think but apparently not Churchianity which has its own agenda and purpose in life which is to make money and control people. They do it by selling forgiveness of sins and a place in heaven to gullible, fearful people.
Apparently being recognized as a mainstream Christian church does not require you to have any conscience at all. I know that this is all perfectly legal but why isn't there some kind of requirement for what is right and wrong, at least morally, in churches? Why can't they, at least, hold each other responsible for abuses and denounce those that are obviously in a state of moral error? Why is it so easy to get a stamp of approval while being guilty of so many evils? The Jesus that I once knew would be ashamed of the Worldwide Church of God and any of the mainstream churches that give it its present credentials as being "mainstream."
There is such a thing as "mind rape" and people ought to be aware of that just as much as physical rape. Churches also get away with mind rape, along with physical rape.
People are very forgiving of Churches because they think that "god" will take care of any abuses. Doesn't seem to be the case.
Sincerely,
Member for 25 years, former member for 8 years.
Links:
http://www.hwarmstrong.com/worldwide-church-of-god-exposed.htm
http://www.hwarmstrong.com/what-would-jesus-do.htm
http://www.hwarmstrong.com
http://www.hwarmstrong.com/healing.htm
Subject: Deism: A 'God' unlike the one erroneously portrayed by organized christianity.
I'm glad to hear you don't believe 'God' is cruel, vengeful, ect. I think your right. If you've already looked into this site never mind but after studing/reading the last section 'The life and teachings of Jesus' I'm fairly certain it doesn't agree with the other scripture (Bible) in a number of ways,though, positive messages are OK. The site is http://www.urantia.org/papers/index.html let know what you think. Read the forward it breaks down deity and divinity.
REPLY:
Anthony,
This website has to be one of the wackiest conglomerations of nonsense that I have ever seen.
The scary thing is not that someone was deluded enough to try to dream all this absolute crap up but that there are people ignorant enough to believe it.
Same thing happened with L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology where a science fiction writer dreams up a religion and found plenty of people willing to believe it and today it is a major religion. Either he started it as a joke or he saw the absolute gullibleness of humanity and that, out of so many people you will find a certain percentage that will believe you no matter how wacky your teachings are. Nice way to make yourself a lot of money and have power over people.
I doubt that there is much hope in this but I would urge you to demand proof of what ANYONE wants you to believe. The stuff on that website is even weirder than the bible, hard as that is to believe.
Proof, proof, proof and nothing but the proof.
That site has nothing at all to do with Deism. Deism is the belief that there is or was some god that started this whole creation/life going and then is basically standing back and letting the whole thing play out without intervening one way or another. In other words, there may be a god but you better not be depending on it to protect you or help you because it isn't going to happen.
Editor
You know, Editor, I'd really rather help you directly and let you decide how to use the help. It would be easy to send you a dollar or 5 via credit card on a monthly setup. Nevertheless, how can I help in a way of which you approve?
Thanks for your work D.P
REPLY:
D.P.
I appreciate your desire to be a part of this great work.... Sorry about that, just kidding.
No, after all the years of ministerial types blackmailing money out of sincere, good people, I couldn't, in good conscience, take any money for doing this. That would just open me up to criticism that I am no better that the religious con-artists that we are exposing.
I just today had another person that signed up for listing the website in numerous search engines so we don't even need that anymore, until next year.
How about writing an article for the website describing your experiences in the cult? Or, how about joining our forum, if you think we are on the same wavelength? Or, how about telling my wife that the website is really worth all the time that I put into it?
Editor
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