The first I heard of the Pacific Tsunami today was an email from a dear (but anonymous) brother in Christ.
A tsunami is headed towards NZ what do you think of that? I am praying for the people of NZ and even you though you don't believe in God.
How thoughtful! Sadly, I didn't initially publish it to the comments section, but on second thoughts I decided I'd share it anyway. In fact, that email was the final straw that led to the previous post on moderation.
The only COG blog to mention the tsunami so far is COGwriter, where Bob sagely notes: "This has been a rough week in the South Pacific, and its only Tuesday. Ultimately, the Bible tells of a time there will be no more islands (Revelation 16:17-21)."
Well, that's cheery. No more islands? Are you kidding? Tasmania, New Zealand, Fiji, Hawaii, what about the British Isles? Bob may have a PhD and a ThD (ahem) but, well, gimme a break! It's another example of the need not to be completely wooden and literal when you read the Bible. "And every island fled away, and no mountains were to be found." Bob's transformation of poetic metaphors into a gray utilitarian paradise doesn't sound too attractive to me; not only no islands, but no mountains. Maybe his god has no concept of natural beauty.
The travail in Samoa and American Samoa is real, and while the anonymous brother's heartfelt prayers would doubtless be appreciated in a very religious nation, I'd have thought a donation to a relief agency might be more practical. As for arguing with this genius about his opinion that I "don't believe in God," well, it'd be a waste of breath. The guy is obviously a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic.
For the record, the tsunami thankfully skipped New Zealand's shores. But what kind of Christianity is it that uses a disaster to slap around someone who has a different theological perspective, or play Internet doom-caster to illustrate a proof text?
29 comments:
My thoughts are with the people of Samoa on this tragic day.
HITLER IS ALIVE! Scientists in the United States have recently found that a bone fragment believed to be part of Hitler's skull is actually from an unindentified woman. Do you know what this means? It means that HITLER IS ALIVE! At the age of 120 (10 x 12 = 120, and 12 is the number of completeness), Hitler is now poised to come out of hiding and finish the work of world domination which he began in the 1940's. Remember, the year 2010 marks the end of the fourth 19-year time cycle, so he will most likely appear next year! Not only that, but it has been 65 years since Hitler's alleged death in 1945, and 65 divided by 12 is 5.416666667. CAN YOU BEGIN TO GRASP THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THAT?! 5.416666667 contains the number of the beast not once but TWICE, which means that the two witnesses will also rise up to confront a beast that is doubly powerful! Yes, it is no surprise that the city of Sydney recently appeared to be on fire as dust blew in from the outback or that a tsunami has struck the south Pacific. Time is short! Within 5 to 7 months Hitler will reappear! You have been warned!
Indonesia just reported an 8.0 magnitude earthquake, one day after American Samoa was hit with a 7.9. My thoughts are with the peoples of both nations today.
And, for the record, it was UCG's response to the 2004 tsunami that ultimately convinced me to leave United. Their response, which was a typical CoG response: "those people weren't called, they were punished for their lifestyle, but it doesn't matter they died a horrible, painful, death filled with suffering, because one day they'll know who God's Troooo Church really is!"
Natural phenomenon have ALWAYS been connected with the wrath of the gods, big reminders to repent and proof that God is simply incapable of showing up in person (no doubt as to who HE/SHE is) and plainly explain to humans what HE/SHE is not happy about.
Let's face it. All of us would give up our opinions based on our experiences and observations about the Deity, his plan and rules, if HE/SHE actually manifested.
(I'd still be a little suspicious it was humans with great holograms however until convinced otherwise:)
If there is fire in California or Greece...Bob Thiel sees it as proof of the ages end.
"You can sure it's almost time for Jesus to return ..."
Because of tornados in Kansas and Ohio
Because of tsunaumis after ocean quakes
Because of Heavy ice and snow in winter
Because of oppressive heat in summer
Because of global warming, or is it cooling? (Either works)
Earthquakes in the Carolinas, Missouri or California
Because a red heifer was born in Israel
Because a white buffalo was born in Montana
Because the Mayans have run out of calculations and have to start over in 2012
Because of the soaring cost of Pizza...
It's a flawed way to view life but works well keeping people on edge and tithing so as to feel they have bought their protection policy for the end times. It's a bad mental habit but one perfected by fundamentalists and the COGs.
Sadly and of course, the Bible and it's characters view the proof of the times they lived in this way and have passed the meme onto each generation.
It does seem Jesus is the SUN personified as are most gods. Their stories are solar behaviors. They come in clouds, walk on water, are seen by every eye, are too bright to look at their face, have significant events happen at solstices and equinoxes and seem to have power only "from the rising of the sun to the setting there of..." They even venture into the dark hell after sunset to speak to the spirits (stars) in prison (night)
Even Virgo the Virgin is directly overhead in December on her back "bringing forth the sun" on Xmas Morning.
It's all very cool but no way to motivate the sincere by fear, shame and literalizing what was ever meant to be an allegory of the Son/Sun and His Twelve helpers/zodiac in His one year/journey thru the signs, ministry.
I still get a kick out of finally realzing the Beast around the throne consisting of the face of a Lion, Ox, Man, Eagle is an allegory of the four equidistant signs in the zodiac of the four seasons Leo-Summer,Taurus-Spring-Aquarius-Winter Aquila(eagle)Fall
How cool is that AND I don't have to fear the creature will show up under my bed!
Gavin
You took Dr Theil to task because he states what the bile says about the islands and mountains being destroyed. We are about to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles I don't know if you have forgotten the meaning of these days but let me remind you.The Feast of Trumpets pictures the time of Christ return during a time of great wars that is the tribulation, ten days later on the Atonement The Angel will bind satan and his demons throw them into the abbys for a thousand years. Then comes Tabernacles when the mellenium begins, this time of restoration of all things and we ressurected saints will rule with Christ to bring peace, beauty and everything good mankind cannot achieve without God. This is the lesson that people will learn from six thousand years of evil and darkness.Why six thousand years because that how long it will take for rebellous humans to finally humble themselves before their maker.
The Gavmeister noted:
" The guy is obviously a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic."
now that's funny....
I can't wait till he gets rid of that blamed sea (Rev 21:1)! Hey, wait a minute; it just occurred to me--a NEW TRUTH! There won't be any islands 'cause there won't be any sea!!!
I work in the telecommunications industry, and my work cubicle is located in front and just to the side of a huge "mission control" big screen display area, where we have CNN, MSNBC and the Weather Channel always up and running so we can monitor world events that could potentially impact telephone services, etc.
Anyway, as I write this comment the latest I’ve seen on CNN is that there have been at least 99 confirmed fatalities thus far in Samoa. They said the earthquake that triggered the tsunami was a 8.0 – which is one HUGE quake.
Apparently, four tsunami waves about 15 to 20 feet (4 to 6 meters) in height hit Samoa about 15 minutes after the quake, reaching up to a mile (1.5 kilometers) inland.
And once again, the “evil and despised” Americans are the FIRST ones to respond with emergency relief, food, medicine, a makeshift morgue, and other aid via military transports. Many other nations where religious belief reigns supreme – well, they’ll be passively praying for the folks affected by this tragedy.
Natural disasters provide the true Christian with an opportunity to apply the lessons of the parable of the Good Samaritan. It truly saddens me that some church groups we all know about would exploit them for the purpose of their own empire building.
BB
Anonymous 3:41, you must really be looking forward in eager anticipation to the Feast of Tabernacles this year, as I can just envision the veins in your neck and temple area just THROBBING out wildly in RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION as you wrote your extremely ungrammatical above post. (Go ahead and just read it over again, very slowly, now that it’s been posted here.)
But before you start your kingly millennial reign in the World Tomorrow, you might consider using spell-check. It may give you just a little most prestige with the subjects you will otherwise beat up with your “rod of iron.” I mean, Your Majesty, really…
“abbys” instead of abyss
“mellenium” instead of millennium
“rebellous” instead of rebellious
And then you folks wonder WHY people don’t take your comments like this seriously.
But there IS hope – you can always post over on Byker Bob’s “Bible folder” site, as I’m pretty sure the standards for basic legible English will not be nearly as high over there.
Hmm. You missed my favourite - bile instead of bible!
Leo,
I do not own that site. I simply moderate one folder for the owner.
And, we are a comparatively literate group there. We've occasionally needed to use "sic" when re-quoting some posters, but probably not any more than is needed here on AW.
BB
"...and everything good mankind cannot achieve without God."
I think we did all right with open heart surgery and space travel.
The Apostate Paul
Independent Samoa (distinct from American Samoa) has a large diaspora resident in NZ - at least 115,000. The population back in the homeland is around 177,000.
Samoans are deeply religious. Their culture is embedded with Christian tradition, family unity and respect for elders. They will need practical assistance and prayers to help them get back onto their feet.
Anonymous Thu Oct 01, 01:29:00 said...
“And, for the record, it was UCG's response to the 2004 tsunami that ultimately convinced me to leave United.”
Really, that is amazing.
Isn’t ‘Anonymous’ aware of the work that UCG did in helping the victims of the tsunami?
Maybe try reading through www.lifenets.org/tsunami which documents the house and boat reconstruction project in Sri Lanka.
Anonymous said...
Gavin
You took Dr Theil to task because he states what the bile says...
Gavin said...
...my favourite - bile instead of bible!
That was hilarious!
"Out of the abundance of the heart doth the mouth speak..."?
Anonymous said...
I can't wait till he gets rid of that blamed sea (Rev 21:1)! Hey, wait a minute; it just occurred to me--a NEW TRUTH! There won't be any islands 'cause there won't be any sea!!!
Without the sea there is no people either. The oceans are the lungs and temperature regulator of the planet.
What people seem to miss between the lines in the Bible was the sea was greatly feared in ancient days. It was viewed as the abyss, the underworld full of demonic creatures.
I heard once that the stories of giant squid attacking small boats full of people might not have been so far fetched. Such stories stopped being reported in history about the time the propeller was invented.
The story goes that squid are known to be at least as smart as whales and dolphins, and communicate to each other via flashing changing color patterns in their skins light emitting photophores to other squid. Its a faster means of speaking than our language. It seems the last reported case of a giant squid attacking a boat, it was against a steam powered propeller ship, the propeller cut the squids arms off.
The theory is that squid apparently communicated to other giant squid that boats were no longer easy pickings for meat, and they could lose their arms, which I imagine they value very much.
Don't know if its true, but its make for a great tale! It also explains the persistence of sea monster tales among ancient mariners.
"Byker Bob’s “Bible folder” site"
So? Who won the pool?
Armstrongite cultists always seem to go into orgasmic delight at the mere mention of a world disaster. It turn's them on to see death and destruction. It props up the lunatic rantings of their leaders and makes them look 'credible'. Armstrong's 'god' is a god of vengeance sitting up there with an itchy finger waiting for any opportunity to kill off all the 'evil' people of the world. Armstrongite cultists cannot fathom an unconditional grace filled God who is not itching to kill off his creation. That's the God I follow as I delightfully enjoy a wonderful meal on this so called Armstrongite 'day of atonement.'
It was good to see a relatively moderate comment from Bob.
I was shaking my head all day yesterday at the nonsense of him providing pre-conditions for the proof of god.
So, we can only prove god doesn't exist by using the bible? Oh, now which bible are we going to use for that? Which one of the hundreds out there is god's bible?
Leonardo said...
....It may give you just a little most prestige with the subjects you will otherwise beat up with your “rod of iron.” I mean, Your Majesty, really…
“abbys” instead of abyss
“mellenium” instead of millennium
“rebellous” instead of rebellious
And then you folks wonder WHY people don’t take your comments like this seriously.
"We don't need no learnin' we got the Wholey Bile!"
Lifenets is not part of UCG. There has always been hostility from UCG leadership towards Lifenets because .... well, I'm not entirely sure. Jealousy? They view it as a threat competing for tithe dollars (which is true)? The latter is most likely.
There was indeed a UCG minister who stated exactly what I quoted. And that tape was mailed out to congregations across the country, which means someone in Cincinnati felt that sermon was representative of the organization's position.
Since this thread has sank to Byker Bob's thread over at the alumni forum - I thought I would point out that his profile shows that: ARMSTRONG WAS RIGHT!
Meanwhile, back in reality, American Samoa has suffered a tragic event. wherever donations and other help is being organized, I would like to encourage you to join with me in providing whatever you can afford in relief of this situation.
Those folks are in dire need of your support and talk of religion and your prayers are not going to provide it.
Anonymous said...
‘Lifenets is not part of UCG. There has always been hostility from UCG leadership towards Lifenets because .... well, I'm not entirely sure.’
Lifenets is separately incorporated to UCG – that much is true. But when just about all the people/churches working in the projects and supporting Lifenets are UCG, then is it realistic to say that it’s nothing to do with UCG?
It may not officially be part of UCG, but it is clearly is almost entirely a UCG effort. To claim otherwise is to be deliberately ignoring the obvious facts.
I think there is some truth that a few in UCG are not happy with Lifenets. But isn’t that their problem rather than yours?
Victor Kubic, the main ’power’ behind it has and is on the UCG council of elders – in other words part of the main leadership of UCG. I think this shows that any feeling against him is obviously not that strong, and doesn’t represent the general feeling of UCG.
If what you quote was in a sermon released for general distribution, I never heard it. Can I ask are you doing an actual word for word quote, or is this your general memory of it?
There is a vast difference between the exact wording you used, and a general sentiment that those that died will still get to understand the truth of God, that their opportunity for eternal life has not passed with their death.
That sentiment I suggest is a positive outlook – your exact wording turns it into something else, which is why I query it.
Interested in your comments – but I am off to my personal ‘Haj’, as Gavin puts it, so may not get to comment on your reply!
Corky,
We've tried to get Flurry and Pack's advertisements banned from popping up on our profiles, but it seems that YUKU is unwilling to honor our requests. YUKU is set up in such a manner as to target ads specifically to topics discussed in its family of forums. Recently we had a discussion on interracial dating, and pop-up ads began appearing on our profiles for such dating sites.
As I've always stated in all my postings from day 1, I consider HWA to be a false prophet, a pawn of Satan, a horrible incestuous drunk with nothing of value to offer to humanity in any way, shape, or form.
BB
Byker Bob,
Good defense Bob, and I understand totally. My lying eyes don't get it but my brain does.
You won't see my profile over there, I guarantee that. I don't want my profile associated with HWA anywhere on the Internet.
What are ya'll doing for Samoa over there anyway? Have you heard about the recent Indonesian tragedy? Over 500 people have died.
Just thought I'd let you know in case you might want to actually do something.
Psssst. Prayer doesn't feed the hungry nor comfort the affected and grieving families. It really doesn't, just thought I'd let you know.
I can almost hear it now:
"no church members were hurt, and one member, even though his home was destroyed and his family scattered, still managed to walk, 3 days, to keep the Feast of Tabernacles."
"We've tried to get Flurry and Pack's advertisements banned from popping up on our profiles, but it seems that YUKU is unwilling to honor our requests. YUKU is set up in such a manner as to target ads specifically to topics discussed in its family of forums. Recently we had a discussion on interracial dating, and pop-up ads began appearing on our profiles for such dating sites."
B/C interracial dating sites are JUST AS BAD as That Prophet and the Packatollah
shine on you crazy diamond shine on
WCG-A is still alive and kicking? I thought that festering cess-pit of wanton, rampant evangelism of the very worst kind, had closed up shop.
Sorry to hear it's thriving. Although that would explain the recent influx of evangelism over here, if they're patting themselves on the back about preaching to the pagans......
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