The Painful Truth About The Worldwide Church of God

Email To The Editor
(Page 66)

(Mail from Kooks, Nuts and Loonies is on another page)


8/13/02

 Dear Editor,

I guess I am a perfect example of those you address on your site! I visited your site by accident looking for a site to check in on those I attended AC with. I was mesmerized by your site for almost two hours, pulled myself away after midnight to go to bed, but after showering, had to come back and email you before I could go to sleep. Wow! Where to start? I was "born" into the WWCG in 1967 and would have given my life for it if asked. My father was a local elder when he died in 1996 of cancer and that is when I got my first clue that things were not as I had been taught.

(My mind is so jumbled trying to wrap itself around the info in your site. I feel kind of stupid that I probably am the only one left that did not know about the Garner Ted sex scandal and the HWA incest issue. I even attended AC '85-'90 and still didn't know?!!!)

I believed the changes as set forth by Mr. Tkach, I was blown away at first, because this was the only "TRUTH" I had ever known. And to be told that the very FOUNDATION of my existence was, "Whoops, sorry that's not right", was and STILL IS very disconcerting. HOWEVER, I did not question, because I was to follow "God's Apostle" and besides my Dad agreed with it and since women did what the men in their lives told them to, that was good enough for me. Still when God did not heal my Dad I FEARED that we had made a mistake, after all God punished you swiftly and harshly for disobeying, right? After my Dad died and the church changed we did not attend regularly. My Mom went whenever I would take her, my husband, also an AC grad, refused to go at all. He stated that all they talked about was the past and he wanted to look toward the future.

Then in 2000 my Mom was diagnosed with cancer as well and died one week later. I was for sure that I was in trouble then. Even after almost FIVE years of being away from the WWCG I still thought my Mom died because we were not attending church regularly. I would wake up in the night unable to breath with very real fear that I was one of those that would be left behind when everyone else fled to Petra. I suffered thinking that I had condemned my children to be one of those that would be "thrown into the air and shot before hitting the ground" (I remember this stuff from sitting in services as a child). I still fight fears when I listen to the world news that maybe I have still made a terrible mistake and I, or worse yet my children will have to pay with our lives.!!! Is this along the lines of what you are talking about on your sight? I feel like I'm suffering from PTSD(post traumatic stress disorder) sometimes!

I am one of four siblings, all four suffer from some type of addiction. Alcohol, drugs, cigarettes or food. I am the only one who has not been divorced, at least once. Not the picture my dad painted for our future when he told me I would never have to worry about going to high school, because we would "flee" by then. Here I am, about to turn 35 with two children of my own and both my parents buried in a small plot overlooking their farm.

Thank you for the information on your site, I will continue to pursue this issue, because I NEED to know. I NEED to know why my life was the way it was, (and is why it is)and why my parents made the decisions they did. I do respectfully disagree with your feelings that God does not intervene with us as humans. Everyday when my children have near mishaps, are not hurt when there's no reason for them not to be, when I have a near miss in the car I choose to believe that God does that for me and my family. When I am able to work out a way to buy school clothes when I am unsure about where the $ is coming from, I choose to believe in God. I need to be able to do that, because I don't feel I have anyone other than my husband to lean on and I know if something happened to him I would be alone. I choose to have faith that God is real and that He cares about me.

I hope I have not rambled on too much, I cannot put into words my feelings at this moment. I have witnessed first hand misuses of power by some of our ministers, but I must sort through my own feelings before sharing those stories. I hope this e-mail is valid and I hope you will acknowledge if you received this.

Very sincerely and stunned, Rebecca

 REPLY:

 YOU WROTE:

 I guess I am a perfect example of those you address on your site!

REPLY:

 Always nice to know that people are being helped.

YOU WROTE:

 I feel kind of stupid that I probably am the only one left that did not know about the Garner Ted sex scandal and the HWA incest issue

REPLY:

 I'm sure there are many more that do not know. There are also a lot that "know" but don't want to accept it. They have too much invested in these men to accept that they are/were just con-men. It would mean that they wasted a good chunk of their lives and a heck of a lot of their money.

YOU WROTE:

 since women did what the men in their lives told them

REPLY:

 Its in the bible. I have no idea why women will accept that book because it is so anti-woman. So obvious that it was written by MEN wanting to keep women in subjection, not by a fair and loving god.

YOU WROTE:

 Even after almost FIVE years of being away from the WWCG I still thought my Mom died because we were not attending church regularly.

REPLY:

 That is one of the crimes that they have committed against the loyal members and their children. They invaded, took over and corrupted our minds with fear. I wish that there was a god that would reward them for all the evil that they have done but I see no evidence of one that will do that. I'm afraid that they will get away with their evil.

YOU WROTE:

 I still fight fears when I listen to the world news that maybe I have still made a terrible mistake and I, or worse yet my children will have to pay with our lives.!!! Is this along the lines of what you are talking about on your sight?

REPLY:

 Yes. I think the children of 1st generation members are far more affected, mentally, than their parents. The parents have a past that does not include the cult. The children know nothing else other than the church and its teachings. I know the Roman Catholic Church has said, in the past, something to this effect: "give us the children until they are 9 or 10 and we will have them for life." The WCG realized this and tried very hard to have children's activities so that the children would stay in the church. What they have succeeded in doing is making so very many children, now grown up, into fear and guilt ridden adults who know in their hearts that their parents were wrong but have deep-seated fears that they are wrong for leaving the church and will pay in horrible ways when the church's prophesies finally come true.

The PT site is here to educate people as to the actual character of these "men of god" whom god had supposedly chosen to lead us in His great Work and Plan. Once you see how absolutely CORRUPT these men were/are, you can move on to examine everything that they tried to teach us to see if any of it is actually legitimate.

The first place, then, to start, is to examine the Bible to see if it is actually a book that can be relied upon as being from a loving god that is worthy of worship. The overwhelming evidence is that it is only a book written and compiled by men seeking to control their fellow man. It is a book filled with errors and inconsistencies. If it were, indeed, true, then it represents an absolutely EVIL god that men might well FEAR but in no way could a person ever lower themselves to actually love this god. Mankind, rotten as it is, has better character than the god of the bible. This world would be a much better place to have never heard of this god. I know this sounds blasphemous so I will not go on. You cannot get to where I am and many others are, free from all the fear, overnight. It takes years of reading, thinking and reasoning. One step leads to another. You take a step and then you have to stand still and think about what you know and where you are before you are ready for the next step. When you stop taking steps, you stop growing.

YOU WROTE:

 I choose to believe that God does that for me and my family.

REPLY:

 I won't completely destroy you by arguing about this. I know it is a great comfort to think that there is some god that is watching over us. It is a drug though. It is painful to get off drugs but people are better off living in reality than on drugs. My one advice to you would be to do your very best to physically protect your children and yourself. Do not expect ANY help from any god. Do it all yourself and then, when you have a coincidence which you want to look on as though a god did it for you, well, good for you. I think that I make my case pretty convincingly on my Acts of God page. If people can read that page and still have confidence in a loving, intervening god, what can I say?

YOU WROTE:

 I need to be able to do that, because I don't feel I have anyone other than my husband to lean on and I know if something happened to him I would be alone.

REPLY:

 I think you know the truth, deep down inside, but you don't want to accept it. Get as much term insurance on your husband as you can afford. Do the same for yourself, if you can afford it. Sooner or later, one of you is, indeed, going to be alone whether you are trusting in a god or not. God is not sending out checks every month.

YOU WROTE:

 I choose to have faith that God is real and that He cares about me.

REPLY:

 Faith, meaning you have absolutely no proof at all. Faith meaning that you have to turn your brain off to believe it. Again, this is a drug. Get off the drugs and you will find a tough reality but at least you will be able to make your decisions based on reality and not fantasy. You will be better off living in reality. If there is a god at all, it would only seem logical that that god would want you to use your BRAIN when trying to find IT and find what IT wants from us. I will give you the point that there may be or have been a real god. As to whether that god cares about mankind, you can produce no evidence for that belief. Isn't that just a little strange? Shouldn't there be some evidence of a loving, caring god, if there is such a being?

YOU WROTE:

 I have witnessed first hand misuses of power by some of our ministers, but I must sort through my own feelings before sharing those stories.

REPLY:

 If and when you are willing to share, there are many people that need to know your story.

 Editor


 Wow, what a site.....

I grew up in wwcog; although I do not refer to any of that time my childhood. I consider it one very long exercise in survival.

How shameful what Herbert W. and my parents did in the name of God.......

Still the question resonates, as it did when I was very young, if we are all going to the place of safety (Gods kingdom) why does the church need all our money??????

So many questions are finally answered for me because there has always been so much denial within my family. The church changed over the years and my younger siblings are not as aware of the older beliefs. They do not know where I came up with the idea that we never celebrated or acknowledged a birthday.

I harbor a great deal of anger for the embarrassment and humiliation imposed on our young lives. I can finally say that what I knew to be true is in fact true. All the experiences I had others went through also.

Imagine going to bed every night wondering, if when you wake up all the people that you love may very well be burning in a lake of fire. Never being able to love as deeply as you desired because your grandparents, friends, cousins, aunts, uncles, teachers, and even the old woman down the street were not God's people. The belonged to the world. What kind of God did these people envision?

Driving all those forsaken miles in the back of a VW to get to the Feast of Tabernacles. There were five of us kids stuck in the back seat---all in the name of God---. No wonder I get sick when ever I get in the back seat of a car.

Try explaining that religion to your friends. By the time I was in second grade I could quote the freakin' bible....what's that all about? Matzo??? Pagan ladies???

I was robbed of my childhood, my faith in God, my family and my peace of mind at a young age. By a man that God spoke to??????? And I guess he said "Have my people give you all their money. Let them eat those black eyed peas and matzo----all the way to Petra----"

God help us they we all screwed up. We survived.

I have lovely children now. We celebrate in the love of God. I am very happy and content in my beliefs. How very sad though that I do not have my family to share all this with. Herbert W. stole my four brothers, my three sisters, my mother and my father.

I hope he is burning in his lake of fire.....after all it was his own creation.

Thank you for letting me vent.

Warm Regards,

Michelle


 Editor,

When I read Morgan's letter about how he had accidentally (coincidentally, or synchronistically) run into a young woman who, like him, had grown up in the WWCG and how he thought that everything happens for a reason, my first reaction was that this sounded like the beginning of a happy romance story. Then my second reaction an instant later was to remember reality.

I exited from my WWCG wife about a year after exiting the mind-raping cult's evil grasp. I began dating again, trying to find another adult woman with whom to share my life. I thought a lot about what qualities I was looking for. I thought about how easy it would be (or so I thought) if I could only find someone who, like me, had been in Perbert's cult for many years. We would have so much in common if that could happen.

Then I slowly realized two things: (1) the probability of that happening is very close to zero since only a tiny percent of all people were in that filthy cult, and there are plenty of other women available; and (2) everyone who has been in Herbvert's cult has had his mind raped and has become "damaged goods". And that includes me. I am damaged goods, too. The longer you stay in that pustulating, open, running sore disguised as a church, the more damaged you become.

I realized that I didn't want damaged goods, as much as I could possibly avoid it. Then I learned another even harder lesson. Whether you were ever in a mind-raping cult or not, if you are a human being you are damaged goods. By the time you get to be my age, no matter what culture you have lived in, you will have been through many experiences that mess with your mind. One of the worst is that almost everywhere on earth women are treated by men as sex objects, second class humans, uninteresting, mindless, etc. A very large percentage of women in the USA are molested, raped, or in some other way hideously abused (emotionally, spiritually, or physically, e.g.) by their fathers, stepfathers, uncles, grandfathers, or mothers' boy friends before they get old enough to leave home. Most of these women do not have the means to get the psychological counseling they need to recover from these experiences. Their minds are badly warped and damaged.

I met and became obsessed with (I thought it was love) a certain woman during this period in my life with whom I had so much in common that I thought we were clones. One day she told me of the beatings her father had given her when she was a young teenager. She had been seeing a therapist once a week for over 20 years at this time (we were both around 50 years old). After having been away from her now for almost five years, I can see how her mind was terribly damaged by her abuse, and that she needs a lot more mental healing. We cult members all had our minds raped, brutalized, beaten, whipped, and scarred from the abuse we went through every week as we went to Sabbath services. In our misguided attempt to "rest" from all the cares of the world, we were actually doing the very worst thing we could possibly do. What sick irony.

My point is that the experiences we go through affect our minds for a very long time. Morgan, if you read this, please realize that growing up in a cult may give us a lot in common with someone else who did likewise, but be very careful with someone like that and do not assume too much. Those of us who were adults and voluntarily went in to the cult very likely, and unfortunately, have personalities that need many of the things cults provide. The fact that a huge percentage of adults who have escaped the filthy clutches of the WWCG have then gone into other cults shows that these people are really lifelong cultaholics. On the other hand, those who grew up as children in cults are not necessarily like that as they were involuntarily forced into their cult exposure by their parents. If you run into someone with a cult background and you think you have a lot in common with him or her because you have a similar background, you may get lucky and not have major problems down the road. But I wouldn't bet on it. Many things can happen to us that damage our minds, and choosing to be in a cult and going along with their program for many years is surely one of the worst.

Bill Fairchild Douglas, Mass.


 Editor,

(1) An ex-member from Australia wrote on 6/15/02 about seeing a movie called "A perfect mind." I believe what the emailer meant was "A Beautiful Mind". It was an inspiring and enlightening movie.

(2) Another Australian said there is a saying down under never to trust a man with a Bible in his hand. Reminds me of George Bernard Shaw's saying "Beware of the man whose god is in the skies." Unfortunately, we humans never seem to understand what "beware" means until after we have made the same mistakes against which we are being warned.

(3) Finally, in your reply to John's email of 6/7/02, you said "How can you put your faith in a "god" that is demonstrably evil?" Some people who read that will misread it and assume you said "God is evil". I have read every email on your website, and what is probably the most common mistake made by emailers who want to defend their "god in the skies" is the inability to read and think accurately. All humans tend to read our own emotions and beliefs into what we read, and we must constantly guard against this tendency.

If there really were a "god in the skies", it certainly would not need us to defend it. What these emailers are really doing is trying to defend their belief systems, which are always based on emotions rather than logic. We acquire almost all our beliefs automatically by growing up in a culture permeated with those beliefs. E.g., grown adults first teach their child that Santa Claus exists and will give him lots of toys, then when the child is older they tell their child that Santa Claus does not really exist and it was all a lie but it was only a "little white lie" so it is OK to lie a little but not OK to lie a lot, then when their child grows up they expect their child to teach his children that Santa Claus exists and to continue this insane myth with each new generation.

In other words, we adults expect and force our children to grow up in such a way that they will all be liars when they are adults, too. And then we get upset at our national president when he lies. Something is wrong with this picture. We grow up believing that it is OK for me to lie but not OK for you to lie. You had better always tell me the truth, but you should automatically know when I am lying and let me get away with it.

You, I, and others have written many times things like "I do not believe there is any evidence that there is a God who intervenes or cares about what happens here on earth." People read a statement like that and assume that we are saying there is no god. Or that we are saying there is no evidence that there is a god. They read as far as the words "... do not believe ... God" and their minds go blank; they stop reading and thinking.

In the first place, we are not saying we do not believe that there is any god. I personally am still convinced that something created the universe, and probably is sustaining it. But that's all I think I know for sure, except that I also am pretty sure that there is no proof of anything beyond that. And I think that the existence of the universe is evidence that this creative force exists. I have an inner, gnawing need to learn more about this creative force, but I have been burned very badly in my previous attempt to do that, I have other more pressing needs in life, and so I am now content to ignore my intellectual desire to spend time learning about this creator. I have delved into that subject enough to know that there are no knowable answers, but there are plenty of emotional feelings one can engender. I have bigger fish to fry with the few remaining years of my life.

We all have our emotional holes that we imagine are filled by a god whose attributes we create in our imaginations in such a way that our god fills up these holes, takes care of us, intervenes for us, wants to help us, will provide our needs, will ultimately insure that justice takes place, and will somehow keep us alive after we die. These are some pretty big emotional holes that we all need to have filled. At least we all want them filled. Whenever anything goes wrong, it is so easy to think "Satan caused this bad thing to happen, and God will fix it." This is a gigantic and monstrous cop-out. Sometimes I see a dramatic program on TV where a horrible thing has happened to someone and a close friend starts yelling "Somebody help! Somebody do something!" I always and immediately yell at my TV set "You're somebody. You do something! Get off your lazy ass and help out. Quit looking for others to help you. You're in the middle o! f nowhere, and there is no one else to help. Figure it out! And quit whining."

It is very humbling to realize that a grown up adult is going to have to fill those big emotional holes himself, or to accept the fact that they will never be filled. I would gladly give my heart, mind, and whole life over to the lord or any other god who provides me with an unmistakable proof that he/she/it wants me to do that. I am so awed and impressed with this creation that I, in my simplicity, can only attribute to the hand of some great Author that I naturally want to thank this Author, do whatever It says, live my life according to Its will, etc. The only problem is that there are 10,000 different religions to choose from, all telling me they represent this Author, all claiming to be the only true religion, and all in conflict with each other. When I was a young simpleton I thought there had to be one true religion out there somewhere. I found it in the writings of Herbert W. Armstrong. Then his successors told me that HWA was all wrong, that all "Christ-center! ed" religions are equally valid, and to pick the one that made me feel the most comfortable. So now I know that all 10,000 of these religions are bunk rather than only 9,999 of them.

Show me the real words of the REAL GOD and I will be happy to go along with Its program for me. Until then, I am on my own. A free spirit. An independent, fallible, gullible human trying to get through life as best I can. Learning, thinking, making mistakes, making progress, imperfect, sometimes happy, sometimes sad.

But at least now I have learned to question authority, to question everything, to think critically, and not to assume anything or let my emotions get in the way when I read what someone else wrote. I do not assume any more that I can learn all the answers to all the questions in life.

And I avoid like the plague anyone else whose god is in the skies and who is carrying a bible.

Bill Fairchild Douglas, Mass.


 Editor,

I thought you'd get a kick out of the following excerpts from Hank Hannegraf's WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE FAITH MOVEMENT (http://www.equip.org/free/DC755-1.htm):

"...(Benny) Hinn has uttered some of the most "off-the-wall" statements imaginable including the claim that the Holy Spirit revealed to him that women were originally designed to give birth out of their sides.

"...Paul Yonggi Cho pastor of the world's largest church, located in Seoul, South Korea claims to have received his call to preach from Jesus Christ Himself, who supposedly appeared to him dressed like a fireman.

"...In like fashion, A. A. Allen "scammed" his followers by asserting that he could command God to "turn dollar bills into twenties." He was also known to have urged his followers to send for his "prayer cloths anointed with the Miracle Oil," and he offered "Miracle tent shavings" as points of contact for personal miracles. Allen even "launched a brief 'raise the dead' program." Of course, it died."

In more subtle ways we were scammed by HWA, GTA, and their fellow "prophets." In a booklet entitled "Is Herbert W. Armstrong GOD'S PROPHET?" (Church of God Publishing House), dozens of ridiculous WCG predictions and prophecies are quoted from the 1950's. (I know you have a web page listing all those failed predictions as well.) Here's just one example by scammer and seer Garner Ted Armstrong:

"Two years ago, Mr. Herman Hoeh showed in this magazine how God's Word prophesied disease epidemics would strike the United States in two short years! Those epidemics are beginning now! And they will grow much worse!" (PLAIN TRUTH, DECEMBER, 1957, page 23)

Of course, those epidemics never happened.

Most of us know the Bible's advice about phonies: "If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him. (Deut. 18:22)"

You'd think Garner Ted Armstrong would have learned from his foolish predictions. No, he's still making them. If you read his current articles he often uses the phrase "I warned" about this or that prophetic scenario coming to pass. He's warned about a coming United States of Europe, which will supposedly become the Beast of Revelation and make war on the USA and Britain, which he believes are modern Israel: Ephraim and Manasseh. He's warned that two thirds of these two nations will be taken captive because of their sins. He predicts that the beginning of this "tribulation" period will be marked by economic collapse.

So of course he's very interested in the current steep decline in the stock market. He wrote an article about it: "Global Financial Meltdown...Now Near?" (http://www.garnertedarmstrong.ws/gtanews58.htm) Read some of his alarmist phrases: [my comments in brackets]

"...Billions of dollars have been lost! Hundreds of thousands of average Americans have seen their savings disappear...economists [which ones specifically?] are saying many other big corporations are on the verge of toppling. [MANY big corporations toppling? I haven't heard that. He's trying to scare people.]

"...For decades, I have warned millions of Americans and people around the world [only a few thousand are actually now listening] that the beginning of the prophesied Great Tribulation (Matthew 24:21,22) would most likely be caused by a global economic collapse!

"...We need only exercise PATIENCE as we see the world convulse in the beginning of the Great Tribulation! [Garner Ted Armstrong is plainly prophesying that this stock market decline is the beginning of the Great Tribulation]

The fact is we're in a longer-than-usual bear market, which historically averages 10 months. This one has lasted two years. Economists point to a healthy economy, low interest rates, low inflation, and other positive factors in predicting a gradual reversal of the stock market decline. (Recently we had two near record days of market gains.) A terrorist attack or another Enron debacle could temporarily stall a recovery, of course.

This economic slump is not the Great Tribulation. And you can bet that Garner Ted Armstrong will not admit he made a false prediction, in hindsight, months from now.

George Washington supposedly had a vision (http://www.firefromheaven.net/wash.html) about three "great tribulations" to come upon this country: The Revolutionary War, The Civil War, and World War III, in which the USA would be invaded, but win the war. (I'd take this vision with a big grain of salt)

But if you had to choose between Garner Ted Armstrong's vision of the USA's destiny and Washington's vision, who would you believe? In George's vision there is no mention of the USA being Israel or Manasseh. There is no captivity. There's no mention of a "Beast" power. But there is a nice future for America...if you believe it.

Skeptical -that's one word we didn't hear much in the WCG. The more I read The Painful Truth and other anti-cult sites, the more I value that good word.

Harlan


Dear Editor in charge.

I was searching for the church when I found you, I don't know of this but I won't dispute you.  Anytime I have found an institution that is run by "man" it is the same story.  That is why I worship God on my own.  I believe in His Sabbath, His Law's and His Son Jesus Christ.  I believe in my salvation through Him Jesus Christ, but I have never found a "church" that teaches Him or His Word.  I have searched for over 50 years and I'm 55 years old.  God contacted me when I was very young, and I have talked to Him ever since.  I hear Him through His Word and it has given me comfort that NO MAN has been able to.  I will read more of what you publish, but I do have one question?  Have you found a church that truly teaches God's Word?  I would certainly appreciate any information so that I can maybe find one too.  I had met someone from the Sabbatical Baptist church but I lost it and have not been able to find the church before I lost it.  Anyway, it was a pleasure talking with you and maybe we can again.

Dayrl

REPLY:

YOU WROTE:

 Anytime I have found an institution that is run by "man" it is the same story.

REPLY:

 Well, then I might ask why you believe in the book that the "institutions" compiled? Men took a bunch of ancient manuscripts and letters that would support what they were teaching and put them together in a book. How do you know that this book is any more "holy" than any other book? I know that this will be hard for you to even think about but, if you are searching for truth, you must start at the very beginning and root of the problem. But, if god is talking to you, why don't you just ask Him/Her/It?

Editor  


Hello,

I looked up Garner Ted Armstrong looking for info on what ever happened to him and here I am typing you a letter of how I feel about that awful "church" if you will call it one.

My mother was a member from 1967 til about 2000 or so and stopped going. She calls it a cult as it was or is today....it kept her and my family from enjoying life and living a "normal" existence..... I was a teen growing up during the early 70's and I tried to at the time accept it as the "true" church of God. How many of remember 1975 in Prophecy and how scared it made us feel and how we should prepare for doomsday any day now! What a way to bring up a family and try to enjoy the world God created for us....I wonder if the ancient peoples of our world felt that BC175 was a doomsday for them considering how primate life was and folks didn't live too long and lived in harsh conditions nor did they understand  the world they lived in.

The WW church of God was a hoax, one mans dreams of a business, using God to reach his goals. Not unlike Oral Roberts, Billy Graham, Jim Bakker, Jim Swaggert, Catholicism, Jewish, etc, etc.... All based on man's greed and need to control his fellow man. Yet it is so easy to fooled by men with a smile and handshake, our nature is to trust and be trusted....the men and women who take advantage of this go to their graves with no remorse, only disappointment that they could not have taken more people and their money. HWA considered himself to be a messenger of God and convinced himself first of this and told his flock how God had huge plans for him and his people. Only a man of his caliber would do such a dastardly deed, and unfortunately so many people believed him and in him....very sad...

On a more personal note for children this religion was disastrous.... Birthday's, all holidays, were banned....Waking up Thanksgiving Day and having beans and hot dogs was great! As a kid I developed the ability to lie to my friends as this religion was so extreme and made me feel very unhappy. I feel sorry for the families affected by this man and his need to steal their money in the name of God. He certainly lived a very lavish life like all "true" men of God do live.....remember Jim Bakker and Miss Tammy? The ultimate in stealing money from parishioners: The air conditioned dog house! Unbelievable but true!!

I guess I have vented enough for now, Thank you for the opportunity!

Until next time this is me, so long friends


 Editor

I came across you site the today and perused it for a while. Just to be a straight shooter, I am a Christian, but really find it difficult to label myself as I do not adhere to many conventional, traditional, or socially enforced mores (external to scripture). I do belive the Bible is God's Word, so you and I can differ there. I felt like writing to you to let you know that I understand your viewpoint, and think that any critically thinking person would. I also agree with you that the Bible (as any faith, religious or humanistic)requires a leap of faith (in the theistic Kirkegaardian sense). I also wish to apologize for the "so-called" Christian who threatened your life. As God is a God of peace and love, their actions were not Christian in any sense of the word (except in the illegitimate Crusader sense perhaps??). I will pray for you today, that God will reveal himself to you and your family in His time, and in His fullness. I also pray that your mind will think clearly, as God is not a God of chaos, but of order (reason). The truth is out there and God will reward those who diligently seek after His truth. I would finally caution, that you view science with the same rationality wherewith you view religion... Science is constantly revised, updated, and supersceded... Science is not truth necessarily because it purports a certain methodology... I recommend the book "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions" by Thomas Kuhn.

May God richly bless you and you family,

Paul

REPLY: 

Paul,

Thanks for your message.

YOU WROTE:

 I will pray for you today, that God will reveal himself to you and your family in His time, and in His fullness. I also pray that your mind will think clearly, as God is not a God of chaos, but of order (reason). The truth is out there and God will reward those who diligently seek after His truth.

REPLY:

Well thanks. I think it worked. See what god's word has revealed to me about god below.

Regards,

Editor

 

The god of the bible, the god Paul worships:

HE CREATES EVIL (Isa. 45:7),

HE DECEIVES: (Jer. 20:7).

HE TELLS PEOPLE TO LIE:(1 Sam. 16:2).

HE LIES: (Gen. 2:17),

HE REWARDS LIARS: Ex. (1:15-20)(Joshua 2:3-6)

HE ORDERS MEN TO BECOME DRUNKEN: (Jer. 25:27).

HE DELIVERS A MAN (JOB) INTO SATAN'S HANDS: (Job 2:6).

HE MINGLES A PERVERSE SPIRIT: (Isa. 19:14).

HE IS NOT OMNIPOTENT OR ALL POWERFUL: (Judges 1:19).

HE CAUSES INDECENCY: (Isaiah 20:4).

HE ORDERS STEALING: (Ex. 3:22)(Deut. 20:14).

HE MADE FALSE AND UNFULFILLED PROPHECIES: (Jonah 3:4,10) (Gen. 15:13 says 400 years but Ex. 12:40 says 430)

HE CAUSES ADULTERY:(2 Sam. 12:11-12).

HE ORDERS THE TAKING OF A HARLOT: (Hosea 1:2).

HE ORDERS A MAN TO PURCHASE HIS WIFE: (Hosea 3:1-3).

HE KILLS REPEATEDLY: (Num. 16:35,21:6)(Deut. 32:39)(1 Sam. 6:19)(1 Sam. 5:6) (Psalms 135:10) (Isaiah 66:16)(Jer. 13:14)Also note: Gen. 38:7,10, Ex. 22:23-24, Num. 11:1, Deut. 32:41-42, Joshua 10:10-11, 1 Sam. 5:9, Psalms 136:17-18, Hosea 9:16, Amos 2:3, Ex. 4:24, 2 Sam. 6:6-7, and 2 Kings 5:7.

HE ORDERS KILLING: (Lev. 26:7-8)(Num. 25:4-5)(Num. 25:17)(Deut. 20:16-17)(Joshua 10:40)(Ezek. 9:5-6)(1 Sam. 15:3,18)Also note: Ex. 32:27-28, Num. 21:34-35, 31:7-8, 35:19-21, and Jer. 48:10.

HE LOSES HIS TEMPER: (Deut. 13:17) (Judges 3:8)(Psalm 21:9)(2 Sam. 24:1)(1 Kings 16:26)(Nahum 1:2)(2 Kings 13:3)(Ex. 32:10)(Num. 11:1)(16:46), (32:13-14), (1 Kings 14:9 15:30, 16:2, 16:7, 16:13, (2 Chron. 34:25) (Psalm 18:7) and (Jer. 44:6).

HE IS OFTEN JEALOUS: I the Lord thy God am a jealous God...." (Deut. 5:9, Ex. 20:5). "For the Lord thy God is a jealous God among you...." (Deut. 6:15).See also: Ex. 34:14, Deut. 4:24, 29:20, Psalms 78:58, Ezek. 16:38, 36:5-6 and Joshua 24:19.

HE REPENTS. Even though 1 Sam. 15:29 ("the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent") says that god never repents, the following verses say the opposite. it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at this heart" (Gen. 6:6) (Ex. 32:14)(1 Sam. 15:11,35)(Jer. 26:3)(Jer. 18:8)

HE PRACTICES INJUSTICE: (Ex. 4:22-23)(Num. 14:18)(Deut. 23:2)(Deut. 28:32)(Joshua 22:20)(2 Sam. 12:14 21:1).

HE PLAYS FAVORITES: We are told in (2 Chron. 19:7) that, "...there is no iniquity with the Lord our God, nor respect of persons, nor taking of gifts." Yet, that is clearly disproved by the following comments. "For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God has chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth" (Deut. 7:6, 14:2)(1 Sam. 12:22)(1 Chron. 17:22)(Isa. 52:6)(Matt. 15:24)(John 4:22)(Gen. 4:4-5)

HE SANCTIONS SLAVERY: (Deut. 15:17)(Titus 2:9)

HE DEGRADES DEFORMED PEOPLE: (Lev. 21:16:23).

HE PUNISHES BASTARDS FOR BEING ILLEGITIMATE: Deut. 23:2

HE PUNISHES MANY FOR THE ACTS OF ONE: (Gen. 3:16) (Gen. 20:18).

HE PUNISHES CHILDREN FOR THEIR FATHER'S SINS: (Ex. 34:7)

HE PREVENTS PEOPLE FROM HEARING HIS WORDS: (Isa. 6:10)(Rom. 9:18) (Matt. 13:13-14)

HE ORDERS CANNIBALISM: Isaiah 49:26 says, "I will make your oppressors eat their own flesh; they will be drunk on their own blood, as with wine....(Lev. 26:29 )(Jer. 19:9)(Ezek. 5:10)

HE DEMANDED 16,000 VIRGINS BE GIVEN TO SOLDIERS AS WAR PLUNDER AND 32 BE SET ASIDE FOR HIMSELF: (Num. 31:31-40)

HE ORDERS GAMBLING: (Joshua 14:2)Num. (26:52-56)

HE REQUIRES AN UNBETROTHED VIRGIN TO MARRY HER SEDUCER: (Ex. 22:16)

HE ORDERS HORSES TO BE HAMSTRUNG: Joshua 11:6 says, "The Lord said to Joshua,...You are to hamstring their horses and burn their chariots."

HE SANCTIONS THE DEGRADATION OF WOMEN: (Deut. 21:10-13)

HE SANCTIONS THE BEATING OF SLAVES AS LONG AS THE SLAVE CAN ARISE AT LEAST A DAY OR TWO AFTER THE BEATING: (Ex. 21:20-21)

HE REQUIRES A WOMAN TO MARRY HER RAPIST: Deut. 22:28-29

HE TRAINS PEOPLE FOR WAR: Psalm 144:1 says, "Praise be to the Lord, my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle."

HE ORDERED THE COOKING OF FOOD WITH HUMAN FECES: Ezek. 4:12

HE KILLED THE WICKED AND THE RIGHTEOUS: Ezek. 21:3-4

HE INTENTIONALLY GAVE OUT BAD LAWS: Ezek. 20:25 says, "I also gave them over to statutes that were not good and laws they could not live by...."

HE EXCUSED THE SINS OF PROSTITUTES AND ADULTERERS: Hosea 4:14

HE EXCUSED A MURDERER AND PROMISED HIM PROTECTION: Gen. 4:13-15

HE KILLED A MAN WHO REFUSED TO IMPREGNATE HIS WIDOWED SISTER-IN-LAW: Gen. 38:8-10

HE AIDED RATHER THAN PUNISHED A SWINDLER: In Gen. 28:14-15

HE BREAKS UP FAMILIES: Ex. 21:2-4

HE ORDERS THE KILLING OF CHILDREN: Ezek. 9:6 and 1 Sam. 15:3

HE KILLED OVER 50,000 PEOPLE BECAUSE A FEW LOOKED INTO AN ARK: 1 Sam. 6:19

HE MANDATED UNLIMITED PUNISHMENT FOR LIMITED SINS: Matt. 25:46 Also Rev. 14:11 and Mark 9:43-48.

Etc., Etc., Etc......................


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