The Philistines have had a really bad reputation for a very long time. They're the villains in the Old Testament/Tanakh (remember Goliath?) But the facts, it seems, are not always what they seem. This was a literate and cultured people. Check out the March 13 NY Times article.
Which leads to an interesting question. Does the Bible portray "the bad guys" accurately? Is it impartial and objective, a "God's eye-view", or are we reading through layers of long-forgotten political convenience and national polemic?
Unfortunately there's a lot of material in the books of Samuel, Kings and Chronicles that's, well, historically suspect, as Finkelstein and Silberman clearly demonstrate in David and Solomon: In Search of the Bible's Sacred Kings and the Roots of the Western Tradition
. Another provocative writer (with a more populist touch) is Matthew Sturgis, author of It Ain't Necessarily So
. Having read both, I recommend them to anyone interested in the history behind the ancient stories. In short, it's not just the Genesis material that we have to exercise caution over. The "historical books" also need to be read with great care.Needless to say, True Believers and Philadelphian hold-fasts, like fundamentalists of all persuasions, will avoid material like this. Others will find their horizons stretched by inconvenient facts, and may find themselves embarked on a exhilarating learning curve.
23 comments:
Having lived among the "Philistines" I can understand the why's and wherefores regarding Israel being commanded to exterminate the inhabitants of the land. They have a hatred for other people (especially the Jews) that would be difficult for many in western societies to comprehend. Even young teens who I met and talked to were totally indoctrinated into this hatred mindset. Could it be this was a part of their culture then, and has survived culturally down through time to the present era? Sure looks like it.
The Philistines and other surrounding nations of Israel were not deemed the enemy because of their lack of cultural advancement, poor linguistic skills or lack of ship building techniques. God told Israel to destroy them because of their evil practices such as child sacrifice, temple prostitution, ritual bestiality, ect. ect. In todays tolerant society where no one culture is deemed superior to another who are we to judge a person for wanting to light their kid on fire to appease the pagan gods? The real enemy is the bible with its stupid restrictive laws like "Thou shall not steal", "Thou shall not murder", "Thou shall not lie", "Thou shall not commit adultery". How stupid can you get?
The Philistines and all the "...tites" and "...ites" were just people like everyone else on the planet, including the Israel.ites. People are demonized by those who write the history and rarely reflect the reality of the real people. The OT is a concocted history of a typically cultic people in need of a glorious history above all others. We have been paying for that deception ever since in the form of Religions of the Chosen ones vs. those of Satan that must be resisted.
The Pharisees were not the evil self righteous bastards the NT makes them out to be nor were they as hated as made out to be. They did not believe the in the ideas about law and such you find Paul railing on. They did not kill the prophets. They did not do much of anything Paul accused them off. You would have liked them probably as your friends and not seen them through the lying filter of Paul, who if he was one, was like no other before him. To me, Paul was a Temple thug,working under the auspices of the Sadducees before his "conversion." His self aggrandizing comments in the NT should be a hint of a man who needed credentials he did not possess and his appealing to his Roman citizenship as a "Pharisee" raises more than one eyebrow of incredulity. "Hi, I'm the Greatest President there ever was and a member of Al qaeda too."
You would have liked the real Eqyptians inspite of how they are portrayed in the OT and made a type of "sin." It's bullshit and writers license that readers take as fact. You probably would have liked the Romans as well...well the NT church did because it's easy to make fun of an blame people that can't hurt you like "the jews," but it's nice to say
"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God; the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever, therefore, resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God; and they that resist shall receive to themselves judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou, then, not be afraid of the power? Do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same; for he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain; for he is the minister of God, an avenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore, ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath but also for conscience sake. For, for this cause pay ye tribute also; for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. Render, therefore, to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor,"
...because they can kill you.
The practices of Israelites were not much different than those of the nations around them. The idea that "God" had them slaughter because of the amazingly different kinds of sins and perversions they alone could come up with, is stupid. No culture lives in a vacuum and free from others. Good Bible guys offer their children for sacrifice and it becomes a type of Christian doctrine. Non-God's chosen do it and it's the reason to slaughter them all down to the livestock. Drop the filters and enjoy the "yeah..that's right."
Actually, DNA would probably tell us they are all cousins anyhow. Too many are deceived by the story into thinking that they were this island of sanity and obedience in a sea of sin. They were all fish in the same sea, all human and all influenced by the same perspectives on the gods, their function and how to appease them, and I do mean "them."
I had the priviledge of sitting privately with Israel Finkelstein when in Megiddo digging after winning the trip from Biblical Archaeology Magazine. He was in charge of the dig and formulating his perspectives. He has a good undestanding of his own book and how the stories were concocted and the characters assigned to give an appearance of something that was not literally so....The characters in stories are always smarter, more powerful, more well known and more amazing than in reality, if they existed at all. Finkelstein has his doubts about David and Solomon as the evidence seems to not be there as depicted.
Why should we have to read all this extra material you suggest on the historical books, when everything we need to know about the Old Testament is found in Herman Hoeh's divinely inspired Compendium?
Others will find their horizons stretched by inconvenient facts, and may find themselves embarked on a exhilarating learning curve.
Unfortunately, it's not that simple. Just as the WCG didn't have the "facts" correct, neither do Finkelstein and friends have a lock on them. Along with Finkelstein, try reading "On the Reliability of the Old Testament", where Kitchen demolishes a lot of Finkelstein's research. It's uncomfortable not to "know", so we all tend to look for material that will make sense of things for us, and we ignore the other stuff. True "learning" is not knowing the facts, but understanding what's known and what's not, and understanding the points of disagreement. You can't get that from a single book.
"The Philistines and all the "...tites" and "...ites" were just people like everyone else on the planet, including the Israelites."
The fact is the Phoenicians did sacrifice their children and were not like other "ites". Carthage was destroyed by the Romans in part because of this odious practice.
But the Phoenicians apparently also invented the forerunner of the modern alphabet. God's condemnation has to do with ethics and morality not technology and cultural development. Although, technology and cultural development are certainly influenced by ethics and morality of any society.
-- Neo
God told Israel to destroy them because of their evil practices such as child sacrifice, temple prostitution, ritual bestiality, ect. ect. In todays tolerant society where no one culture is deemed superior to another who are we to judge a person for wanting to light their kid on fire to appease the pagan gods?
Whereupon in a few centuries, the Israelites were taken into captivity because of their evil practices such as child sacrifice, temple prostitution, ritual bestiality, etc. After all, they did start their history worshiping The Golden Calf.
And now today, we have the church of gods who are at war with one another, saber rattling as it were, threatening to sue each other and engaging in sheep stealing while lying and practicing deception. They have sacrificed their children by ignoring them to worship Herbert Armstrong and those who came after, there isn't a temple, but there's been a lot of adultery and GTA with coeds -- which is sort of the same thing as temple prostitution -- and it isn't certain what sort of rituals are taken up as a practice: Let's just say that it isn't pleasing to God and it does not serve the fatherless, widow and stranger very well. Mainly, there's just idolatry and if you can't get past the First Commandment, it isn't constructive to discuss the rest.
"True "learning" is not knowing the facts, but understanding what's known and what's not, and understanding the points of disagreement. You can't get that from a single book."
agreed...and this is also true of that which the Bible presents as fact. Many authors challenge the findings of others..."demolishes" might be a bit of wishful thinking, or you don't know Israel Finklestein.
What seems a contradiction to me is all the Christians of today, who have precious little connecton with the OT are the experts on what it really meant or means. The Jews don't know their own book. It seems to take a Christian to define it's true meaning back to them because they have never gotten it correct. So scriptures can mean what they never meant and techniques used by the People of the Book" can be ignored or misunderstood in leu of crass literalism.
Many Jewish scholars and rabbis look at the NT and shake their head at just how it is used by the gentile mind to make the Father of Circumcisn the Father of the Uncicumcised and the singular descendent of Abraham (seed not seeds...Paul) to mean the Messiah Jesus. One can't blame them for missing the point of the Christian faith. It's not rebellion, it's disbelief of how the texts have been hijacked by those who did not write it and whose history it is not. Pretty good trick on the part of the Church to get Koreans or whoever, convinced they are "Israelites" and Children of Abraham. Try wrapping the mind around being told that your salvation depended on accepting Sai Baba and become Children of Visnu which then makes really true Indians...or else. We don't lose one bit of sleep fearing not accepting Hindu scritpure and the gods contained therein. Neither do they Christianity and neither do Jewish scholars who understand the intent of their own scriptures, its backgroung, genre and misuse by Evangelicals.
Perhaps this is an oversimplification -- but doesn't history teach that those who are on the winning side get to write the history?
(Holocaust debunkers and U.S. "Southern heritage" groups notwithstanding.)
God wins in the end. Hooray!
A matter of curiosity: Who are the Philistines supposed to be and how do we know?
-- Neo
Neotherm said...
A matter of curiosity: Who are the Philistines supposed to be and how do we know?
Good question Neo. Relating people of the past, either "Israelites" or "Palestinians" to inhabitants today is risky business. I do believe It serves a lot of phoney political and religious agendas about such things as "the Holy Land" which is, of course, a joke and the alleged "chosenness" of one group over another. Smoke and mirrors.
The Levant may be the one place on earth that proves modern humans actually mated with Neanderthals...at least if you go by the behavior and I feel I may be insulting Neanderthals...
Racial entitlement is also a stupid way to imagine how history actually was or should continue to be. It's a meme that causes nothing but grief and perpetuates ignorance in the name of religion. But then again, ignorance is what religion is good at perpetuating.
** Richard said...
Perhaps this is an oversimplification -- but doesn't history teach that those who are on the winning side get to write the history? **
Yes, and that's not an oversimplification. I'm sure the Jews did this, as well as the Philistines, Greeks, Romans, Soviets and even the Armstrongologists continue to do to this day.
Perhaps it is really as Napoleon said, History is the fable we [the group] all agree upon.
- Stinger
I like the the definition of "history" as ..."one damn thing after another." :)
Anonymous said...
Why should we have to read all this extra material you suggest on the historical books, when everything we need to know about the Old Testament is found in Herman Hoeh's divinely inspired Compendium? ,,,
You ARE joking, right?
Hey, give it enough time and the "Bad Guys" dont seem so bad, or at least we try to humanize them. Something about our nature wants to "humanize" the barbaric or try to rationalize their brutality.
Example: The latest movie about Japanese soldiers "Letters from Iwo Jima".
Using the same mentality about the Phillistines as proposed, could be used about the NAZIS couldnt it??
Afterall, the Nazis were a literate and cultured people were they not? Wasnt the music of Wagner beautiful when it was played in concert in front of Goebbels, Himler , Goering and the Fuhrer himself?
Nazi science was ahead of its time! Rockets, Jet engines, Heavy water experiments. Engineering wonders like the Autobahn.
A wonderful Nazi society tho?? Arent we all glad that the Nazi machine was crushed. Anciently it was no different, the Phillistines were the Nazis of their day.
Lussenheide
SEASONAL SUBLIMITIES
It's time to get a little verbal,
Embarking on a diet non-Herbal.
Hot cross buns are in the shops,
Spread with butter,down they pops.
Spicy, yeasty, full of flavour,
The very texture one can savour.
Who can resist their taste appeal,
The spongy,bungee great mouth feel.
United will never sanction buns
Spoiling all the Easter funs.
And Philly's fantasy we all know,
All puffed up and full of blow.
We are leaven Herbal meals behind,
No longer hopefully are we blind.
An egg or two so full of choc
Will see poor Spanky doing his block.
So let's rejoice in things Astarte
And have a good old Easter party.
Greetings,Gavin,spend some money
On helping out the seasonal bunny.
Shamefully, Seamus
Then again Mr Lussenheide, it could have been the Israelites, not the Philistines, who were the Nazis of their day. It all depends on your perspective. If you were a victim of the ethnic cleansing of the armies of Yahweh ("spare them not"), I daresay you'd be somewhat distressed.
Annonymous and all:
It is the "Winners who get to write History!" .
If there is a God- Then the Israelites were the blessed chosen people for the job.
If there is no God - Then the Israelites were the superiorly bred people who beat out the Phillistines based upon selective breeding and social evolution.
Either way, enough of this post- modern "all cultures are equal" and have a right to exist crapola.
They arent.
And yes, it is not fun to be in a culture that aint cutting it and is soon to be under the heel of a society that is superior to it.
But alas, this is the story of mankind, as brutal and nasty as it is. "The winners get to write history"
Lussenheide
Lussenheide, the social Darwinist?
We need to repent of our evil ways, and acknowledge Herbert W. Armstrong as the Apostle of God, the Elijah to come. He turned the hearts of the fathers to the sons as prophesied in Malachi's message.
The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. The carnal mind is an emnity against God.
But, this gospel of the kingdom - God's work of witnessing and warning to this earth - shall be preached in ALL the world, and then shall the end come.
Send money to headquarters for the building fund, only after you have paid your 1st tithes and offerings (and, 3rd tithe if applicable). TIME IS SHORT. Mortgage your house and send the money to headquarters to finish the work - the final push, the final gunlap.
Some of you just don't get it! You didn't get it then, and you still don't get it now. You will never get it!
Anonymous said...
"We need to repent of our evil ways, and acknowledge Herbert W. Armstrong as the Apostle of God, the Elijah to come. He turned the hearts of the fathers to the sons as prophesied in Malachi's message...blah, blah, blah."
MY COMMENT: Oh! And don't forget. Herbie said, "Your VERY SALVATION depends on you following the next Pastor General of the Worldwide Church of God!"
Steve K
To Anonymous Zombie 12:40 A.M: You really ought to get your pastor to write some new material for you, or learn how to indulge in the intelligent exchange of ideas in a blog setting. We've seen your cut and paste post about ten times now, determined that it is totally without merit, and are now to the point of actually finding it annoying.
Reality is that turds have more intrinsic value than Herbert W. Armstrong! Obviously you haven't read Deuteronomy recently while pondering over 1975 or British Israelism.
BB
Byker Bob said...
Reality is that turds have more intrinsic value than Herbert W. Armstrong! Obviously you haven't read Deuteronomy recently while pondering over 1975 or British Israelism.
Bob, the guy or gal posting this is looking for a reaction. Positive or negative, he will get the attention he or she craves! And just maybe, something to post on another pro-Herbie site!
Now we all know without a doubt that Mr. Hankey from "South Park" has more brains than the ass hat that posts these Spam crap messages. Perhaps the "monitor" should relinquish response control to this sick, demented mind that has such a disposition to such negative behavior!
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