Bill Lussenheide comments on the shape of COGs to come...
Demographics show that about half of all the brethren will be deceased within 15 to 18 years.
Most of the "iconic" leadership of the COGs, i.e. Meredith,Hulme, Rittenbaugh, Flurry et al will also be deceased.
The iconic groups will be scattered and split apart, as all groups that rely on iconic leadership do when their "guru" dies leaving a power vacuum.
The survivor will be UCG, as it does have in place set succession plans and its leaders, or "the 12," do not necessarily have too much personal draw or persona to matter much if they die or are replaced.
UCG will pick up a good percentage of the remnant parts of the other deceased COGs, however, will probably only be in the 7 to 10 thousand member range and 80% of it will be concentrated in the 20 largest US markets, (equivalent to where there are Major League Baseball franchises.)
Some evidence of this trend can be found in FOT attendance of UCG, which is around 20,000 as opposed to their weekly attendance of around 12,000.
The 7 to 10 thousand UCG attendees 15 to 20 years from now will be basically very senior "senior citizens".
That is how the dice is rolling out for the COGs unless they can come up with a new and cutting edge way to convert the under 40 crowd. Attempts are being made, but results are still yet to be determined and are questionable.
31 comments:
From that we can conclude that the smart move for all the COG splinter groups would be to throw in with UCG.
With all of them in one wad again, the empire may rebuild itself.
I sure am glad they aren't that smart.
UCG is reaching a critical mass where self-perpetuation could become a possibility.
This is due to a number of factors, but especially because they are quite liberal when compared to the other cogs and are careful about which doctrines they discuss in sermons, and which doctrines they discuss only in Council of Elders meetings.
For instance, I cannot remember the last time I heard a sermon in UCG about how it is our ordained destiny to "become God as God is God", yet I know for a fact my minister and all the local elders in my congregation still hold fast to this belief. It's not preached, but it's certainly believed. Likewise with much of the doom-and-gloom prophecy. You don't hear sermons about it -- that kind of sermon would turn off any young person -- but most ministers and elders still firmly believe it.
Another reason UCG might retain more of its young people than other cogs is because of the strong friendships made through summer camp, the feast, and over Christmas at the Winter Family Weekend. This has nothing to do with doctrine and everything to do with making friends with whom you have something in common. It is not easy for a young person to leave a fellowship if they are so heavily invested in it through friendships and personal relationships, especially when they are discouraged from making friends outside the fellowship. This is why most young people will stay. I'd wager that most people under 18 in UCG think the only real difference between UCG and worldly Christianity are the Sabbath and Holy Days.
UCG has a lot of problems and we definitely have corruption in our leadership, but it is the only one of the cogs with any chance of lasting beyond the current generation.
For instance, I cannot remember the last time I heard a sermon in UCG about how it is our ordained destiny to "become God as God is God", yet I know for a fact my minister and all the local elders in my congregation still hold fast to this belief. It's not preached, but it's certainly believed.
Don't they realize they are
breaking the first Commandment with that teaching?
There is only one God and members of UCG aren't it.( and neither are the rest of us)
How Mormon can they get?
But the Mormons are a growing church.
Possible monkey wrenches ("spanners" for Kiwis and Brits) that could throw such predictions out of whack:
1. the parousia;
2. medical breakthroughs that extend human life by 50 percent or more (senior senior senior citizens?!);
3. Muslim demographic conquest of Europe leading to mass conversion of nominal European "Christians" -- including some to the UCG version of the faith once delivered.
I'm sitting here, thinking. Trying to wrap my mind around the ACOG mentality for a few minutes.
I don't think the splinter groups care about the demographics or implosion. To them, thinking of that is like Peter taking his eyes off Jesus, and starting to sink into the murky depths of the sea. No, the ACOGgers are positive that the Lord Jesus Christ will return way before the ACOGs are allowed to die out! Is it de Nile, or is it Memorex?
BB
The monkey wrenches.......
1. the parousia
It better happen very soon.
2. medical breakthroughs that extend human life by 50 percent
That won't help the oldies at this instance.
3. Muslim demographic conquest of Europe leading to mass conversion of nominal European "Christians" -- including some to the UCG version of the faith once delivered.
Is UCG even getting the 'word' out to Europe?
If Muslim's conquer Europe, then run for the hills....the end is truly near.
Just leave them alone and they all will slowly go away.
That Bill Lussenheide...I like the way he thinks, I really do!
But I cant get my picture on the cover of Ambassador Watch!
Remember the refrain from the old song from "Dr. Hook" with "On The Cover Of The Rolling Stone"??...
Ambassadador Watch...
Wanna see my picture on the cover
Ambassador Watch...
Wanna buy five copies for my mother
Ambassador Watch...
Wanna see my smilin' face
On the cover of the Ambassador Watch!
LOL!
Lussenheide
Lussenheide
Let us all log on to the Lussenheide Lullaby.
Every one sing along.
http://www.niehs.nih.gov/kids/lyrics/hushbaby.htm
Inrd:
Ha Ha!
My Response...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvcpI7TAwac
Luv
Lussenheide
For all the COGs get old and grey
And slowly will they fade away.
Now who will get the message out
And rant and rave and ever shout?
A second Rodders to the fight
And a junior Gerry on the right?
And will the Strumpet sound anew
To warn our lands to sin eschew.
But things are being now RESTORED
By he who seeks a great reward.
To the PACK this world is going,
It's dirty laundry sure is showing
The 3G church may soon arise
Though presently it wears disguise.
Of witlesses you have a choice,
With Dave and Rod you should rejoice.
The world will end TWENTY 0 EIGHT
Predictive seers seal our fate.
WILY LAND proclaims the time,
Turn away from lust and crime.
Shamelessly Seamus
WACHT AUF, WACHT AUF
The Ides of March next year,beware,
And let the humble walk with care.
From Bayern mounts erupt a cry,
EUROPA VORWAERTS, eins, zwei, drei.
Assyria's land will head the charge
To form Europa great and large.
DEUTSCHLAND,DEUTSCHLAND over all,
Before her might all nations fall.
Stoiber puffs his patriot chest,
For Deutschland ethos is the best.
A towering giant to lead all men,
Germany's time has come again.
The TRUMPET sounds,a mighty flurryish,
Eternal words our lives to nourish.
Wake up, wake up,LAODICEA,
PHILLY says the end is near.
And who are to cast a doubt?
So let the prophets ever shout.
So cast your tithes at their feet,
To Petra's caves you can retreat.
So hearken to the prophet's cry,
Heed his words,not asking why.
The time is near they so proclaim,
Upon their heads can be no blame.
The watchman pleads and will you heed,
Or will you let your nation bleed?
Sell your house and in a hurry
Donate it all to Gerald Flurry.
Hear ye Israel so truly lost
Between so many options tossed,
The kingship passes father to son,
And next year brings a lot of fun.
Now where does stand our beloved "Spanky"?
Give to him an outsize hanky.
For Gerry is surely number ONE,
Going bonkers in the sun.
So watch like hell both day and night,
For Geriatric surely is right.
And Stephen fills his father's shoes,
All to gain and none to lose.
Shame-fully Seamus
Tell you what Bill, you send the picture, I'll put it up ...
Providing I get editorial license to write the caption. ;-)
lussenheide said...
That Bill Lussenheide...I like the way he thinks, I really do!
Don't get a 'big head' over this Bill, remember the other guys that Gavin has featured and quoted here......Flurry, Pack, Rod, etc.
"A strong hand from somewhere."
All the XCOGs need is a strong leader to stand up in the spirit of HWA and they would all be united again. But it is interesting that there is no direct heir to HWA's mantle.
The decapitation that occured left all the other parts and pieces dangling. Mark Armstrong would be a likely candidate if he could ever develop the maturity to seem apostle-like.
-- Neo
Neotherm said...
"A strong hand from somewhere."
MY COMMENT: What ever happened to that strong hand? It never materialized.
All the XCOGs need is a strong leader to stand up in the spirit of HWA and they would all be united again.
MY COMMENT: All of them have themselves deceived into thinking they are strong leaders. No? Just ask 'em.
But it is interesting that there is no direct heir to HWA's mantle.
MY COMMENT: What about Joey jr.? :-)
The decapitation that occured left all the other parts and pieces dangling. Mark Armstrong would be a likely candidate if he could ever develop the maturity to seem apostle-like.
MY COMMENT: What?! He's a wuss, being led around by the nose by his mother. I don't think he really cares much for the family religion, but the money's good.
Steve K
Once upon a feast so dreary, while I wondered meek and leery,
Over many a worn and frightening volume of old Armstrong lore,
While I dreaded, nearly snapping, suddenly there came a tapping,
As of some one gently rapping, rapping at my motel door.
"'Tis some monitor", I muttered, "rapping at my motel door -
Surely this, and nothing more."
But there was only a lady beguiling - my mad fancy into smiling,
By the grave and stern decorum of the countenance she wore,
"Though your legs be long and flatter, you", I said, "are sure no craven.
Goodly slim and wondrous beauty wandering from the nightly shore -
Tell me what your godly thought is on tonight's Armstrongian lore!"
Quote the lady, "Nevermore."
God’s church has always been split and divided. At times nearly nonexistent, nothing new about that. Christ also promised the gates of hell would not prevail against it.
The phrase "God's Church" is just so redundant, chauvinistic, and exclusionary! Yet, each of the splinter groups applies that description to themselves in all of their official communications.
You can almost tell who is or is not an ACOG member by the usage of this identifying term.
All of you ACOG members might just want to consider the fact that the Roman Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, and by extension the Anglican Church can actually verify their history right back to Peter and Paul and ultimately to Jesus Christ. All other Christian churches are either rebels from that movement, or are forced to develop bogus histories for the benefit of their members.
"God's Church", indeed! You must be new to these sites, and must never have seen any of Jared's well documented dissertations! Welcome, Southern buddy, yer fixin' ta git an education!
Gammer
It's not "God's Church" -- it's "Gawwd's Church"!
Southern David said...
"God’s church has always been split and divided. At times nearly nonexistent, nothing new about that. Christ also promised the gates of hell would not prevail against it."
MY COMMENT: "God's church"? What makes you think that "God's church" are the little splinter whores that spawned from the likes of HWA? And, every ONE of them thinks that they only are "God's church". When you tell them that they left "God's church", their response is, "We didn't leave. They(WCG) left.". The splinter whores are like little spiders that hatched from the mother whore spider that was stepped on, and the little spiders ran and scattered, making their own webs of deceit. You're confusing the true Church of God with another manmade false church that sprang from the bowels of a false "apostle". Every religious kook on the face of the earth thinks that THEY are "God's church". Well, naturally, otherwise they wouldn't be sitting in their "God's church" comfort zone.
Steve K
Think about this. Is it possible that there is no church on this earth that is Gods church, no ministers that are Gods ministers? All religions are of Satan. Satan is the god of this world.(2 Cor. 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.)
What are the thoughts of some of you out there about this possibility?
Think about this. Is it possible that there is no church on this earth that is Gods church, no ministers that are Gods ministers?
Is it also possible that it is only individuals ( the salt that is scattered) who are members of the church Jesus was talking about?
That organizations of those who call themselves a church are only organizations of men just like any other business?
Money sure plays a big role in almost every church of every denomination one could mention.
If one believes " by their fruits you'll know them " ....what about all that rotten fermenting pile that is uncovered every now and then among those men of god?
anoneemoose
Christ said "I will build my church." He didn't say when. Could that be the "few that are chosen?" And what about the many that are called? Who and where are they?
Christ did build his church. It took the likes of Herbert Armstrong to corrupt it along with the membership. The churches of God should be thought of as “Houses of Prostitution” where every act of evil and perversion for pro$it can be found and experienced.
Anonymous said...
Think about this. Is it possible that there is no church on this earth that is Gods church, no ministers that are Gods ministers?
MY COMMENT: Think about this. When Jesus said that He would build His church and the gates of hell would not prevail against it, He was talking to one particular group of people, in which the twelve disciples were a part. Once they died out, that was the end of the TRUE church. God is not working with any church today. How do I know? Do you see any miracles being performed, any manifestations of the Holy Spirit, any speaking in tongues, any healers, any who perform "signs and wonders and mighty deeds", which are signs of TRUE apostles, any who prophesy, any church that isn't in the religious BUSINESS for profit and monetary gain? Jesus said, "GREATER works than these will you do.". Have we seen greater works than the works that Christ performed? All of these signs and gifts, and many more, were a part of the church that Jesus built.
Steve K
UCG will most probably survive the "death" of the other churches of God but does it really make UCG all the better for it?
The is an great difference not of statment of beliefs between the churches but of traditions unique to each church.
I think the differences of traditions within the churches is more important to people than the statment of belief differences.
Worst of all knowledge of the bible and a love of the scriptures is being replaced by a sort of "experincing church" sitting through sabbath services ect but knowing nowt about scripture. Being in with the in crowd.
What im trying to say is UCG is popular but not necessarily for the right reasons.
The reputation of UCG far outstrips the reality.
I speak from experience believe me.
Gamaliel said...
You can almost tell who is or is not an ACOG member by the usage of this identifying term.
I am no longer an ACOG member. Although, I am a third generation R/WCGer and pastored a church for a few years.
Gamaliel said...
All of you ACOG members might just want to consider the fact that the Roman Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, and by extension the Anglican Church can actually verify their history right back to Peter and Paul and ultimately to Jesus Christ. All other Christian churches are either rebels from that movement, or are forced to develop bogus histories for the benefit of their members.
All groups have their historical candy stripers, which pulls rabbits out of old musty books and wows the faithful. Things like that is rather boring to me. One too many of Carl McNair’s sermons did me in as a child on that stuff. Just not my cup of tea.
"Think about this. Is it possible that there is no church on this earth that is Gods church, no ministers that are Gods ministers? All religions are of Satan. Satan is the god of this world.(2 Cor. 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.)"
Is it possible that there is no Satan?
No... there is a Satan. He is mentioned 19 in the OT.
How about a "Devil".
Well, that is another question? The "Devil" is not in the OT. Not there. The "Devil" is a creation of the of the good Orthodox church fathers.
Is there a difference between the "Satan" of the OT and the "Devil" of the NT?
Actually, yes there is.
Concerning the survival of United:
Acts 5:34-39 Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space; And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men. For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought. After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed. And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.
It should benoted that Gamaliel applied perverted reasoning "if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought". Scientology springs to mind.
Concerning the UCG hieing off to Dallas, a parable of Jesus is an amusing diversion: Luke 12:15-20 And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth. And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully: And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits? And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods. And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry. But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
Whatever the future holds, it will be a surprise. Although, we all should have seen it coming.
Oh, so now Gamaliel has used perverted reasoning! Is this how you explain the survival of the Catholic Church for 2,000 years?
You are saying that it is not a biblical principle that the things of man will perish, but the things of God will survive?
What a bunch of confused logic and twisted reasoning you Armstrongites use! You have to explain away the fact that your so-called 18 restored truths were supposedly lost for about 1800 years. Now it appears that they have peaked and are waning, and you are praying desparately for Jesus to please return before the ACOGs dissipate into nothing.
A dude's just got to LMAO at you. Just look at yourselves!
There is living proof that satire just doesn't work for some people.
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