I don't know you. I understand you
totally. Too much happened to me that I could write a book and
become a millionair from all the experiences I faced in the WWCG. I
let it go long ago. It left me at first dark, cold, isolated,
depressed, alcoholic and angry. I always smiled because I am so very
special like you. Reason, I made the best of it and turned my
anger around to positive love. I still give more, I love harder, I
pray harder and hope harder than ever before. Evil will not prevail
over me or have me twisted just like evil wants. Not here. So, what
I'm saying to you is because you think for yourself, you may become
a warrior for the Most High. It does't matter how you feel because I
respect your feelings. No matter if you are with the living or with
the dead, you still belong to Him. Whoever He is to you, you are
still a good person. So wounded and hurt. He loves you even more
now. A miracle will happen soon and restore you the way you should
have been before the "storm". May peace and happiness dwell in your
heart from this day on. I don't know you but I love you. You are me
and I am you in spirit. The diffence is that I let it go. I see
clearly now. I am as simple as the words, "Love One Another". Simple
as that. That is all I thrive on. I still pray to no face. I still
cry to no particular name. I just say, I pray to "I am who I am". I
have seen things change like finding a big piece of raw gold in my
purse when I just looked in my purse and saw nothing. I still see
how love changes things. I still know that this flesh and blood that
one day will be like dust in the wind, have rushes of intuition or
visions that come true just like my dreams or thoughts. I always was
told I negative things about myself. Actually it's nothing but words
from "evil" being jealous of what my spirit is here for. My spirit
is to serve a purpose to make that one big puzzle peice fit for the
others to fit into. Together making one tight and secure
beautiful picture eventually to adore. One the purpose has been
served usually the puzzle pieces are either destroyed or pulled
apart and put back into a lonely and dark box. Sometimes the
pieces are glued and displayed. The main joy of a puzzle is it's a
challenge or it brings togetherness with more than one entity. The
heart beats harder. Sometimes you even get tired and want to
give up. Sometimes you can't stop until it's done. Sometimes you
just never finish. Regardless, the purpose of purchasing that puzzle
was to "Fix" something that is broken. You are the most beautiful
puzzle I have ever seen. And one day, YOU will be displayed. You
will be complete. You will never be put back into the "dark" place
again. Whatever that picture is of YOU to be put together is up to
you. I love you and don't know you, but I feel you. You have no
idea. May you be blessed. May you be healed. May glory, and goodness
everlasting life come your way. Be careful of the darkness. It can
blind just like too long into the light. May your knowledge be
knowledge of goodness. There is a GOD. To me GOD means goodness over
Darkness. Just something I think. I was always told I was
rebellious. Never would harm a fly unless that fly tried to harm me.
Overall, I know you will find your way. "I Am Who I Am" has not left
wonderful sprit we call God is everything good. So therefore He has
not left us because good is all around you. Your good. Take care and
your website just opened my heart up a little more in believing that
this is not it. You are free. Don't ever let anyone tell you
otherwise. Just be careful.
Seven hundred words and not a shred of daylight. Have you ever
heard of paragraphs?
mind. I don't want to insult you, as I'm sure you mean well.
It's nice of you to try to "cheer me up", but I got over it long
ago. I think you're the one who's still looking for answers.
You have a serious addiction, for which "god" is your drug, and
"Jesus" is your daily pill. I say that not to be cruel, but
out of sympathy.
Based on your
email address (grantyourwishlav@xxxxx),
I'm betting you are engaged in some sort of "ministry". Do you
make any money at it? If not, then at least you are sincere,
otherwise I can only suspect your motives.
Giving you the
benefit of the doubt, you need to spend a LOT of time reading this
site. May I suggest, as a primer, the
Acts of God
page. Then visit the
Books page and check out the Age of Reason, The God
Delusion, god Is Not Great, and The End of Faith.
When you finish all that, come back and take the quiz.
So funny you feel so all alone and no one understands how
we were raised even when you try to explain it to them.
My parents met in the church in 1970. I have
four brothers and two sisters, we were all raised in the church.
I still keep in touch with many of the life long friends I made
at WWCG. We will never be normal.
I can't help but add to your list.
You ever knew you were about to be struck down
for swallowing water while brushing your teeth on day of
The only friends you had in school were Jewish
You dreaded walking out of your house Christmas
morning because all of your neighbors were playing with there
When ever you felt strange you repeated "I
rebuke you in the name of Christ" over and over in your head
I wanted to share my horror story with you because it always stays
with me, even through six years of counselling, anti-depressants,
failed relationships, it stays with me almost 20 years later. I
must say I am glad for your site, and had a bit of a laugh over the
"You Might have Grown Up in the WCG If..." as crazy as the things
on that list is, I do remember much of them!
My parents came into the church in 1979 under the influence of
friends (who are still with WCG). Their marriage never was very
good, but it got much worse after they got into the church. But
things didn't really start getting bad until we moved back to
Wisconsin, and started going to church in Duluth, Minnesota. The
pastor was William D. Gordon, and I really and truly believe a more
evil, selfish man never lived. My father and he got along really
well--one member commented they seemed to be cut out of the same
cloth. Mr. Gordon would tell us how he skinned horses during the
Depression, and his wife taught me to iron linen napkins. I revered
that man. I was made a council member in YOU, and I had to answer
to Mr. Gordon regarding every activity I planned.
I do not remember exactly when the abuse of my mother and I started,
but it was bad. My father would go on rages, beat my mother, and he
was extremely mentally abusive of me. Attempts by my mother to go
to Mr. Gordon to have the abuse stop failed--Mr. Gordon blamed my
mother for her abuse, and told my father to "do what you have to do
to get her under submission." Mr. Gordon even pulled my mother out
of church one day after services, and he screamed at my mother for
an hour in a locked room while I waited outside the door. He told my
mother she was under the control of Satan, that he was sick of
hearing about her lack of submission, and he was sick of years of
marriage counselling in which "SHE" refused to change. He
threatened to kick her out of church if she did not start seriously
submitting to my father. He had the local elder, Jim Williams, in
there, as a witness while he mentally abused my mother. All my
mother could do was sit and cry. Afterwards, she seriously
considered leaving church, but decided that leaving would be giving
into "them" and decided to stay; she believed God wasn't like Mr.
Gordon. Mr Gordon wasn't through being evil yet, though. I went
to SEP Orr for camp, in 1985, (and was there when Kevin Dean fell
from grace and was replaced by Dr. Kermit Nelson) and because Duluth
was so close to Orr, many times we (the youth) got to go to the camp
to help out if we wanted to. While I was a camper in 1985, my dad,
on Parent Visiting Day, saw me holding hands with a boy from
Colorado. Immediately he went and told Mr. Gordon that I was having
wild sex with this boy (which I was not). Mr. Gordon pulled me out
after church and warned me that the only reason he was NOT kicking
me out of church was because of the "great respect" he had for my
DAD. He never asked me if I did what my dad said I did. He
assumed that my dad was telling the truth. I told him he was a
hypocrite. I told him to his face that he stood up there and
preached against judging people, and yet, here he was, judging me.
From that day forward he never spoke to me again. He wouldn't even
look at me. That man broke my heart. I never, NEVER did what my
dad said I did. I was a virgin until I was 21 years old. I
couldn't believe that a "man of God" would believe something so
horrible about me; I'd gone to every Bible study, I tithed, I did
everything I was supposed to do. I competed at Bible Bowls and
usually won, and I went to Orr every year and worked my butt off at
that camp. He should have known better what kind of a person I
was, but in the end, it was what my dad said that mattered, not what
kind of a person I was. That hurt more than anything else. In that
church, the minister was like God. To be liked by a minister was a
great thing; it truly was. And to have that same minister stick a
knife in your back (after your dad gave him the knife), was a really
terrible experience for me as an adolescent. I was not allowed to
participate in any high school extracurricular activities, was not
allowed to participate in the "world" and was shunned horribly for
not getting accepted into Ambassador College for three years
straight despite my honor status at high school. I was made to feel
like a real loser by people in the congregation, and I will never
know what Mr. Gordon put on that ministerial "report" that was sent
to AC, which AC applicants were not allowed to read. In retrospect,
I am glad that I did not get accepted to AC, but at the time, when I
didn't even know if I would be allowed to attend any other college,
it was devastating to see a girlfriend go out with a local elder's
son and get into AC without even trying. I never dated a local
elder's son, or anybody of any kind of importance, so I was not
allowed into Ambassador College.
Mr. Gordon had spies in the congregation. He disfellowshipped
people for anything and everything, but mostly for perceived lack of
loyalty to Mr. Gordon. For eight years he let my dad beat my
mother to a pulp. Once my dad nearly killed her when he threw her
across the kitchen and she cracked her head on the cupboard. He
SPANKED her for not handing over her paycheck. While we went around
in secondhand clothes, Mr. Gordon had a beautiful house, Church
subsidized, a Church subsidized car, beautiful three piece suits.
When us young people were forbidden from dating outside the Church,
his son, Jason, was allowed to date a girl who was outside the
church (but who he "converted" when they decided to marry). He
preached sermons of intolerance, he thought nothing of embarrassing
people in the congregation who displeased him, and what he did to my
family, especially my mother and myself, is unforgivable. It would
have been different if he had been unaware of the abuse in my
family, but he was FULLY and COMPLETELY aware every day for EIGHT
years. He had NO excuse. He eventually was put on a "leave of
absence" by Headquarters--when he left Duluth, so many members wrote
into HQ complaining about him and his abuses that they were forced
to "retire" him from the ministry.
You can print my name. I want everybody to know how despicable this
man was. I hate him with everything I am, and I have carried this
hate with me for nearly twenty years. If I do not know how to
relate to men, I blame Mr. William D. Gordon and my dad because I
was not allowed to date anyone except for the dysfunctional,
misogynistic men in the church, some of whom had very weird sexual
proclivities that I would discover ON THE FIRST DATE; no one could
understand why I couldn't seem to find someone in church, but what
they didn't know was most of the guys in church I dated wanted sex
on the first date, would mentally abuse me when I refused to give it
to them, and some of whom got to go to AC and have their disregard
for women rewarded at AC. While I will allow that there were
sincere people in church, most of those sincere people were the ones
who colluded with wrong by saying and doing nothing. I think a lot
of people in church could see the bruises on my mother's face, but
didn't know what to do. Mr. William D. Gordon had NO excuse. He
knew. His wife knew.
If Mr. William D. Gordon is still alive, I hope his life has been
hell on earth. I hope every single day this man lives with the
guilt of what he did to me and my mother. I hope there is a hell
that he will go to, but moreover, I hope his hell lives with him
every day he is alive. I despise him, and I despise his wife,
Helen, for doing NOTHING to stop the abuse of myself and my mother.
I loved Helen, and she did NOTHING but teach me to iron linen
napkins while her husband, a servant of Satan to my mind, got to
counsel my dad on how to hit his wife more to make her submit. I
hate them both. I have no pity for any suffering of theirs.
None. Good people of God would have done something, ANYTHING. They
would have admitted that God does not condone spousal abuse. Good
people of God would have called the police and had my dad arrested.
Good people, good ministers of GOD would have taught my dad that God
does NOT condone abuse and that my mother does NOT have to submit to
what is unGodly. They would have examined their hearts and repented.
Instead, they COVERED up the abuse of my mother and God knows how
many other women in the Duluth congregation. They conspired to
COVER up abuse, knowingly, willingly and with full consent. That is
unforgivable. Ministers have a duty to the people in their
congregation, to help them, not hurt them. I don't even know why
Gordon became a minister. I think he was unduly influenced by the
"tent revival" preachers of his day, the power they seemed to have.
I do not think for a minute that William Gordon ever wanted to
sincerely serve anybody. That man does not know the meaning of the
I wanted to call him once, to see if he'd apologize to me and my
mother, but I was still so afraid of him. I heard he visited Duluth
once, after the Church stripped him of his right to be a minister,
and I heard he and his wife didn't dare attend because they knew how
much everybody hated them. My dad went to see him when he heard he
was in town. They were right. Everybody (except for a few deluded
sheep) hated them. They did more damage in the name of God than
anyone I can think of.
You can publish my email address as well. I am not ashamed to tell
the truth about these people. I have kept quiet for over twenty
years. No more.
Diane (Amys) Yoder
Diane, I have nothing to
add. I've heard other horror stories about Bill Gordon, but
nothing as powerful as yours. Thanks for sharing it.
It was painful for me to write. I know hate isn't from God, but
that man (Mr. Gordon) affected my family iin so many, many ways, and
I don't know any other way to finish the healing, actually. I am
sorry for my anger, and I thank you for your kind reply. I hope my
story helps others to come out and tell the truth about what
happened to them in the WCG.
Anyway, sites like yours are really helpful, and make me feel less
I think this church will always haunt me.
how about adding a few more names to either the
'little list' or 'big list'
Peter Whitting (former minister in Front Royal,
VA and Wash DC area)
these are all men who abused their power or
turned a blind eye to many atrocities which were occurring all
Peter Whitting, David
Pack, Grant Spong, and Richard Frankel are already on the list (you
can search for their photos starting
here). As for the others, I didn't
find them but I didn't spend a lot of time searching. If they
were local men they wouldn't be in our archives, but your letter
stands as a witness against them. (I've had personal contact
with Grant Spong, and I am not surprised that he is on your list.
Click on his name above to find out why.)
I am using your site on my blogroll, at:
I value your site greatly (also Robert McNally's),
and I definitely would like to spread word about The Painful Truth!
My site is devoted to deprogramming myself (and
others) who spent so many years (20 in my case), being brainwashed
by the songs in the purple hymnal, and exploring how the songs
reflected and reinforced WCG beliefs, for those who sang them, week
after week, Feast after Feast, year after year.
If you want to provide a reciprocal link, you can,
if not, that's okay too. (I am not now, nor will I ever be,
religious, if you were
wondering.) I'm finding it to be a great exercise
(maybe that should be exorcise heh) for me, and if it can help
someone else, that would definitely be an additional bonus.
(Please don't use my name when you post the link, if
that's all right with you.)
That's fine with me. Thanks for the link. I checked out
your site and McNally's. Both look very compelling. I'll
have to spend some time in both places.
Thanks, I'm glad you're enjoying the site, it's
definitely been educational for me, too. :)
It is good to connect with X-CoGers who aren't still
religious (seems like we're a small number, unfortunately). Although
I have to say, from what I've been reading in the last year or so,
it seems like religion, any religion (other than a CoG splinter) is
a stopping-point along the way for a lot of people who are getting
out. Not me, I can guarantee you that! :) Robert McNally's blog is
good for that, except it's slow on updates.
Speaking of non-religious sites, do you have email
addresses for the admins of Ambassador Watch/Ambassador Reports?
I've got links up for them, as well, and I'd like to let them know,
but I can't find email addresses for either of them.
For a great site to visit, have you seen The
Skeptic's Annotated Bible? It's perfect to put off those preachy
Xtians harping at you to "Read your bible! Read your bible!" I now
tell them proudly, "I have!"
And point to the SAB.
Funny, they never want to talk to me again, after
Anyway, I'm glad you like the purplehymnal, I'm
hoping to keep it updated often. It's been very helpful in letting
me finally purge the rest of the programming, I've found. I've been
out ten years, and never even gave it a thought, until a couple of
years ago. I think it finally started catching up with me, when I
realized the WCG was not only still around, they had turned into
Fundies. Talk about the frying pan into the fire! :)
I (un)fortunately don't have any real horror stories
for the PT, since my family was always
one-foot-in-one-foot-on-a-banana-peel when it came to the church,
anyway (my unconverted mother smoked and wore makeup and wouldn't
give it up, so I had a little bit of grounding in reality, at
least). I was (when I was in) a true believer, though, right up til
Senior's sermon from the mount. That's the part that's just starting
to catch up to me now. (Especially the racist stuff, which I didn't
even realize was such, at the time.)
One thing I am interested in, is finding out if
anyone has pursued anything legally, with regards to Junior &
Cohorts, in getting some of that tithe money back. There are enough
people on the xCoG sites, surely there are enough of us around, to
mount some kind of action.
Isn't there? I wouldn't even want the full share my
family sent in, only half; my father tithed on the full family
income (my parents always worked from home), so I would only want my
mother's share back.
Thanks again for the link, and sorry if I rambled on
endlessly. I'm rather talkative on the email, if you hadn't noticed!
is located right here. It is a static
site that reproduces the work of John Trechak, who diligently and
faithfully reported on WCG shenanigans from about 1976 until his
death more than 20 years later. Ambassador
Watch doesn't list an email address, so
I can't give it to you without permission. I'm pretty sure,
however, that the webmaster won't mind you linking to him, since he
has already linked to your site.
I hope you don't mind I send you an email
meant for Bill Fairchild. In a conversation between you (in
2004), Bill wrote that he has an article about the ties
between religion and politics. I would like to ask him if he
could send it to me. Could you please forward this email to
Btw, I'm an ex-wcger as well and am reading
all your material with pleasure. Thank you for that.
Your message has been forwarded to Bill Fairchild.
Thanks for reading
The Painful Truth.
John. I don't remember writing that I
had such an article. I may have been
thinking about writing one like that in
the near future. But I will write a few
words on that subject now. By the way,
what is the url now for the Painful
Truth? I haven't looked at it in a very
long time, and would like to check it
out again. My thoughts on the ties
between religion and politics are
below. Feel free to post this as a
new article if you wish.
Thanks for the
article. Always looking for more
good stuff from you.
I would like to say something about your article
"The Consequences of Answered Prayer".
I think prayers work as desires and can be very
powerful. They work according to the "law of
attraction". It has nothing to do with a god.
There are theories that all situations and
possible outcomes are available in the
Your thinking/desiring (plus that of the people
around you) plays an important role which
situation will come up for you. Those situations
could be seen as frequencies (everything is
Desires, i.e. thoughts, are frequencies that
attract other frequencies. So, if your desires
are very strong and singleminded (meaning
desiring no opposite things at the same time,
which often happens), you can manipulate the
energy and get the things you want.
It is however pure manipulation, which means
there will be consequences and victims. There
has to be a balance in the "universe".
For example, if you desire something, like for
example a parking place and you get it because
of the desire, it means that someone else would
not get that parking place.
If a person dies energy is given back to the
"universe" as it were. If you through
prayer/desire would not die, the balance has to
be restored in a different way. Often meaning
that some other people or animals have to die
instead of you. Of course it works in a much
more complicated way, but this is the principle.
If you desire a lot of pleasures, there has to
be a restoration of the balance, i.e.
sacrifices. You cannot have pleasure without
pain, not only on a personal level, but also as
What it really means, is that human beings are
parasites. They have to exploit and use the
earth, other life forms, other people and energy
for their pleasures (using their body as a
pleasure machine and energy generator). God is
the ultimate pleasure.
Even if you desire something for someone else,
for example the healing of another person, means
you want to change something what you think is
not good. It is still manipulation of energy
which will have consequenses you don't know of.
The ultimate consequense (sooner or later) of
all this manipulation is however destruction of
everything, including humanity.
It all happens because human beings are not in
harmony with nature and the life around us. If
we would live in harmony the life energy would
take care of the balance in a natural way. There
would be no manipulation of the energy, but
there would also be no happiness-unhappiness,
only survival and a person would live in a
It is thought that created and constantly
creates the separation.
Okay, Tom. Your comments
have been added to the "Consequences"
A recent anonymous writer wondered if anyone has ever pursued
legally concerning getting a refund of tithe monies.
This is a question that will arise as long as questions are asked
are folks who feel they've been wronged by the WCG. They are legion.
I know John Trechak wrote about the subject in his Ambassador
from time to time. A search would yield his thinking. I do recall
on the Leona McNair case where the WCG spent millions in their
to defend themselves agains her charge of personal defamation. She
as I recall and the money paid her went to her lawyers. The
a whole lot less than the cult had spent in the battle.
The point I'm making, anyone taking on the WCG should consider the
cult has a bigger and deeper pocket than anyone seeking redress.
It's easier to ask just on what basis would one consider a suit?
monies were misued? Prove it. That tithing is a false doctrine? Just
court in the land would come to that conclusion? How could any court
rule that any particular passage in the Bible means thus and such?
Bible can mean anything given the particular interpretation.
Has the questioner ever heard of a successful suit aginst the WCG?
any particular cult ever been sued for mentally mistreating its
The Moonies, the Mormons, the JWs, the Catholics have been robbing
their flocks for decades and centuries and it continues.
The United States Constitution guarantees freedom of religion. Over
time of its existence religious hucksters like Armstrong have found
religion business is quite lucrative. People are foolish, weak and
The pursuit of religion proves it. Hell, I proved it for 30 years!
Yes, the Constitution guarantess freedom of religion but neither
Some years ago after my own exit I called in to a radio show hosted
a lawyer named Neil Cheyette (sp?). I asked him about seeking
in the courts. I told him I was broke so I would need a lawyer who
work on a contingency basis. He told me that such suits are a waste
time and no lawyer would take on one. End of story.
"Religion is the few wise ruling over the many foolish."
I just took your questionnaire about the "Place of Safety". I needed
a chuckle. Thanks. I was looking for some info about the Church &
saw the "Painful Truth" address & just had to look. I find some of
the info useful. I'm a Bible Scholar & learning & hopefully growing
in His Grace all the time. My walk with Him has been dramatic. If
you'd like to know how dramatic go to
& you'll see. I'm not a yellow pencil & have never been an
Armstrongian & am often looked upon with suspition 'cause I'm vocal
about my beliefs & question a lot of what's considered "Doctrine" or
almost word which I know isn't. He is my Head & no other.
"Independence" & dependence on my Mighty One is the key to my
existence & some have difficulty with that! BFN.
In His Name,
Hey, thanks! Glad
you got a laugh out of it.
thank you John B
and now Mr. Peter Whitting is an artist (out of his Baltimore, MD
he did dabble in it a bit a few years ago -- certainly was more
interested in that than caring about the 'flock' -- it still bothers
me that he is now using his forum at his new church to promote his
artwork (abstract art)
Need to add two more names (some of the memories
are becoming more clear):
William "Bill" Pack (Front Royal, VA/Hagerstown,
1980's and Larry Sayler (WashDC 1980's)
There are many things I have blocked out from my 15
years in the WWCG -- among them would be the years of not wearing
make-up, being made to feel as a second-class citizen, being
ignored, leaving church after services and feeling empty and asking
myself why am I coming here -- but by that time I had been married
for a few with two small children -- the damage wasn't noticeable on
the surface but as in any abused situation, you have to step back
and look at it objectively to realize how deep you really were.
Any way, I noticed your article was at the top
of the search results and had "your seven senses" in it. This is
important because I began the Seven Senses book after receiving
a letter from Worldwide Church of God HQ responding to but not
answering a question. The book is based on Bible numerical
patterns (obviously! = seven). Since it's on the Internet
Archive, you can use it/pass it on.
Thanks (I was in church here Johnstown,
Uniontown, Cumberland, Maryland)
Bill Fairchild's "Religion and
Politics" is both insightful and thought-provoking. Glad you put it
on the site.
And the e-mails. Diane's horror
story makes me grateful that my mother always filtered COG
child-rearing recommendations through her own conscience. She did a
good job with me and my sisters in spite of the church.
sit here feeling very selfish! My name is shawn, I grew up in the
WCG in the 60s & 70s in seattle wa.I feal selfish, because I feel
better knowing that Im not alone! But this living nightmare that
I've been living for 46 yrs I wouldnt wish upon an enemy.So why do I
feel so good knowing that theirs others like myself.I guess us
humans don't like to be alone at anything we do.I remember Fred
Brogart, our local paster telling a story of a family who had a auto
breakdown which caused them to leave a day late for the feast of
tab, they went over a cliff & all died.What could have possibly been
the messege here! other than scaring the heck out of us kidds. My
sister & myself now live together, as older adults we've came to the
realization that we are forever disfunctional , not able to maintain
a normal relationship with a spouse.We make a living on ebay because
we're not able keep jobs in the normal world.My sister (older by the
way)was taken out of our home at the age of 13,By the state of
washington.you see, she like many others I've read obout on your
site, ran away on friday nights so she could run track.After she was
taken the ministry highly recomended pulling the rest of us out of
school & they did. I, after just completeing the 7th grade I found
peace at the local public library.I could secrectly get some kind of
education.There was only 800 people in the town they chose to hide
us from the world in.So the only friends we had was each other ,
That was until my best friend (my sister) was taken away.I also
remember sitting at the kitchen table for 4 days infront of the same
cold fried egg,"for its a sin to waste food".This came at the
request of the ministry. I also was a bed wetter & was tormented by
electric plates mounted in my bed.bed wetting would not be tolerated
in petra,(that great place of safety) So I thought I'd be left
behind.at-any-rate my sister ran and hid from the evil parents this
church created The early yrs.of the seperation between my sister &
myself came recommended by the ministry they told mom & dad not to
look back.so we lost all contact.It took me 22 yrs to find my
sister.w'eve been back together almost a year.Does anybody out there
really know a way to escape the inner torment.We would take total
delight in meeting others face to face that share the same
background.THANK YOU FOR THIS SITE!!!!!!!
my ears, Shawn! You and others like you are the only reason we
are here. But don't feel selfish; the key to recovery for
everything, from alcoholism to christianity, is knowing that you are
not alone. Others have traveled the same path, and each
one of us finds comfort in knowing that. Thanks for writing.
I did not note until yesterday that you actually linked to the
Church Corporate website. I have sort of gone into hiatus
recently and haven't done much, attempting, as it were, to cope
with the overload of daily living and beyond in the usual
dysfunctional environments with which we all must contend.
I noted that though a lot of my old stuff from cultpsycho had
been put up at various websites, the one thing that never made
it was the definitions page, which I started by mercilessly
purloining the coined expression "pastard" from your site and
sort of went from there. I can understand why no one would want
to attempt to maintain it: The changing landscape is ugly and
tough to keep up with. The best open forum for such things is
Ambassador Watch, but, as I mentioned before, I've just tired of
the whole thing and left it behind.
As the topic of Ron Weinland's weenie weirdness has sludged to
the surface though, I had an epiphany and updated the whole mess
and posted it.
If you find any glaring errors or gaffs, let me know and I might
be able to fix it.
Thanks for the link from The Painful Truth.
Hope you can enjoy this:
Looks like a fun site,
Douglas. Thanks for the link.
I wonder if it would be all right to ask you if you could remove my
email address from your site (at least on the front page). I have
gotten a lot of really nice emails from people, but lately I have
been starting to get some very strange ones, and if you could, I
don't mind if you leave it up, but please would you remove my email
Thank you so much
Diane. There are some strange creatures out there. I
don't even post my full name any more, for the same reasons you
cite. Your email address has been removed.
Several years ago, I happened
upon your website and read with interest and compassion stories
very similar to my own. My parents joined "the church" when I
was quite small and I don't remember a time when we were not
involved with them. We were part of the Tucson church and my
childhood was abysmal because of this fucking cult.
Now, after a few years of
really digesting what happened to me and the spiritual abuse
that took place, I find myself today looking at your site and
seeing how it's developed. It's great. People need to know
that others suffered too and that they were not alone and are
I could share my story with
you and you could publish it, but at 50 years old now, I'm past
that. What I am writing you for, urging you to do is to somehow
supply contact information for those sick bastards who remain
ministers in this cult. Ronald Reedy was the bane of my
existence and man, would I love to give that psychopath a piece
of my mind. And here is his picture as bold as fucking brass on
your website, proud as a peacock that he's still part of this
After 3 years in therapy, I
was finally able to overcome the terrible dissociative disorder
I developed in order to survive the hell I called my childhood.
Most of it was because of that disgusting gutless little worm of
a man and his reign of terror. Week after week, I was forced to
sit and listen to him go on about how all children had Satan in
their hearts and how they were rebellious and sinful and it was
the parents' job to break a child's spirit. Fortunately for me,
my spirit was much more stubborn than anyone realized and I
would just love to be able to tell that Armstrong eunich what I
think of him.
I have three great children
who are all grown now and believe me, I've raised them 180
degrees from what I grew up with. They actually know I love
them and that I happen to think they're wonderful. They got
praise and I did not beat them, nor spank them. I taught them.
Like you're supposed to do. What a concept. They are three of
the most well adjusted young people I know. My son owns his own
business, is married and he and his wife are expecting his first
baby in August, my oldest daughter graduated from art school
(something I wanted, but I was just supposed to have babies and
obey my husband) and is working as a graphic artist and my
youngest is in college pursuing an English degree.
Organized religion still
sickens me. Probably always will. I remember a few years ago
being utterly astounded to find out that other "Christians"
viewed God as merciful and good. Weird.... And seeing
this bully's smiling picture infuriates me beyond belief!
Any chance at all of
publishing contact info for these punks? I'm not suggesting
illegal stuff, just general public info. How therapeutic this
would be for people. I don't want to threaten him-I just want
to tell him my truth about what he did. He probably won't
care. But I do.
Rebecca, I totally understand where you're coming from.
But I'm like you...fifty-something and tired of the whole mess.
I don't keep track of those weasels and have no idea where most
of them are today. I've wasted too much of my life
on them and won't give them that much control any more.
You might find some information on them from the folks at the
Painful Truth forum if you care to check it out. Details
on the home page.
for writing. It looks like you've got a pretty good handle
on things, and think of the positive side -- because of your
experience, your grandchildren are getting the best love
possible. You survived the WCG holocaust and you'll
protect those kids from it with every ounce of your being.
That's a good thing!
Audiji says “Now you have an
opportunity to ask questions of GOD, the Father and Creator of
the Universe, and get answers immediately. This is God’s gift to
you.” Audiji has been doing this for 10 years and it has made
him wealthy and wise. GOD says HE wants you to have the same
opportunity. Find out how by clicking on this website,
www.(xxxxx).com No cost or obligation.
Go fuck yourself, Audiji. We don't
promote cults here. (Website address distorted to protect the
Dear “Are you one of those?”
No spam intended but the reverse; MAPS to your Salvation.
www.(xxxxx).com click on
To Receive Christ-To Believe On Him
“Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came down to this earth to be
born as a baby. He came in His God or Divine nature and took
unto Himself the nature of man. He was without sin. The
purpose was to be Redeemer from sin and Saviour of those who are
drawn to Him. He died on the cross. Before doing so, He said
about that, "I, if I be lifted up, will draw all unto
Me". He had said previously that the
Father would draw some to Him. Are you one of those?”
Peter & Irene Faulkes
Good god! It's an
Thank you for your web site. I read Daughter of
Babylon, thank God. I only associated with the Church of God
for two months reading their books -- extremely depressing and
terrifying. I can't begin to imagine what destructive impact
long-term association has on people. And Ronald Weinland said
on Feb. 2 in his sermon that church membership has more than
doubled recently -- so your site and publications offered
are the only hope people have to know the Truth.
Thank you for your courage, strength and
wisdom. I appreciate your help -- God bless you.
There are other websites
that tell the truth about these groups, but I'm glad you found ours.
At least one that I can think of is little more than a cult of its
own. We celebrate religious freedom without strings...take it
or leave it, we won't judge you (even if we disagree with your
choice). Thanks for writing.
Thought I'd share - I actually got a response
from the Worldwide Church of God. My response... I laughed.
What a load of self-righteous crap.
I am writing to confirm that I received the email you sent us in
which you strongly attacked Mr. Ron Reedy, and in the last
paragraph, "all of the WWCG ministers" (or, as you said at the
beginning, "anyone else") from the church during the 60s, 70s,
I cannot directly answer for Mr. Reedy, of course. He will have
to respond or not respond for himself.
But, speaking now for the Worldwide Church of God, let me say
the following about the accusations: While we believe that your
childhood suffering was real, and are deeply saddened to learn
of it, nonetheless the church has never taught or condoned the
type of parenting or third-party actions about which you
complain, and we must respectfully deny that the church was, in
fact, the cause of your suffering.
I will add, however, for your information, that thousands upon
thousands of other persons lived as children of our church
members throughout that time and tell positive stories about
their parents and their childhood experiences. The difference
in such stories stems, obviously, from the difference in the
family dynamics of each case, since the church and those in
authority basically ministered to everyone in a similar manner.
No matter what happened in your life, and no matter what the
cause, we nonetheless are deeply saddened to learn of your
suffering. We also believe that your future happiness and your
future peace of mind depend upon you working through your anger
and finding peace within yourself. Being tormented by a
continuing and vehement hatred of Mr. Reedy, and unnamed other
people, will cause you continued suffering unless it is properly
resolved in a healthy and constructive manner. I suspect that
you are in no frame of mind to be lectured by us about how a
healthy processing should be accomplished. Therefore, instead
of offering any such unwanted advice, allow me respectfully to
just suggest, and encourage, you to receive some counseling from
a qualified professional whom you trust.
Perhaps your email is actually the first step in coming to grips
with your hatred (sometimes psychologists suggest that a patient
address anger by confronting the subject of that anger). If it
is, then please be assured that we hear you and that we accept
that your suffering was and is real and intense, and that we are
deeply saddened to learn of the painful experiences of your
youth, whatever their cause.
It is our hope and prayer that, having sent us your email and
received our heartfelt response, you can now move forward to
resolve your suffering in a healthy way, which allows you to
lead a productive and satisfying life. Please be assured that
our prayers and thoughts are with you for true and lasting peace
to enrich your life.
Worldwide Church of God
Didn't you know,
Rebecca? It isn't their responsibility, it's
YOUR fault! Sorta reminds me of the biblical
passage where someone finds a wounded and helpless individual
and wishes him comfort, but does nothing to help. Typical
I appreciate your zeal towards denigrating and deconstructing
all things Armstrongian. I have also done much the same in the
past. I would like to disagree politely with a few of your
statements, however, not in the spirit of defending any of that
garbage that infested all our minds long ago, but rather in
defense of honest German history.
The song "Glorious Things of Thee Are Spoken"
was not the Nazi Party's marching song. Here is a decent
history of the tune and lyrics:
The tune was written by the colossal German
composer Josef Haydn in 1797. He also incorporated the same
tune in a string quartet that he wrote that same year. The
original lyrics were in praise of the Austrian Emperor at that
time, and its title was "Gott erhalte Franz den Kaiser", meaning
"God save Francis the Emperor". That sounds very much like the
British anthem "God Save the King (or Queen)". Different lyrics
were composed in 1841 by August Heinrich Hoffman in order to
help convince all the German-speaking people in Europe to unite
and form a new country to be called Germany (Deutschland, or
German land, German nation). At that time there were 39
sovereign states in Europe that had German speakers in them,
such as Holstein, Luxembourg, Hanover, Bavaria, Saxony, Württemberg,
Hesse, Baden, Lübeck,
Frankfurt, Bremen, Hamburg, etc. The dream of a united Germany
came to pass a few years later at the end of the Franco-Prussian
War when finally the modern nation of Germany was created
through the coalescing of all these small areas. There was no
intent in 1841 for this united Germany to rule the entire world,
but rather for the hoped-for new nation of Germany to be over
all these small, independent areas. The lyrics were an appeal
to stop thinking locally and independently and instead to start
thinking nationally. Read Hoffman's lyrics on the Wikipedia
link above and it becomes obvious what Hoffman had in miond.
The Haydn tune with Hoffman's lyrics became the German national
anthem. Some of the Nazis may have dreamed of Germany's ruling
the entire world, but much of their propaganda was for the then
German nation to grow larger by incorporating even more
German-speaking areas in Europe into Germany, such as all of
Austria, the Sudeten section of Czechoslovakia in which several
million German speakers lived, and the Polish city-state of
Danzig in which a large German-speaking population also lived.
A poem written by the Nazi Party member Horst
Wessel was put to music and became the marching song of the
paramilitary group Sturmabteilung (SA for short), which means
Assault Division. They were also called Storm Troopers and
brown shirts. It later became the official song of the Nazi
Party and the unofficial German national anthem, but the
Haydn-Hoffman song was the official national anthem. See
There was also a Russian national song in the
purple hymnal that was incorporated by Tchaikovsky in his 1812
Everything we did in those days reinforced the
brainwashing from on high that emanated from Deadquarters in
Pasadena. As we sang songs, listened to the man giving the
opening or closing prayer, held social functions with each other
(pot luck meals, private dinners), in fact in literally
everything we did, we were voluntarily and subconsciously
reinforcing our own brainwashing. It is easy to go through any
of the song lyrics in that old purple hymnal and deconstruct the
brainwashing once one has become unbrainwashed, just as we can
now go through ancient booklets, magazine articles, and
everything else that ghastly organization published and see the
errors, distortions, lies, bogus scholarship, and brainwashing.
Never mind "honest
German history", I'm more interested in keeping this website
accurate. Thanks for clearing that up.
I grew up in
worldwide church of God until the age of 25. Thank you for
your website. Reading the stories of others made my heart
ache as I can relate so completely with them. I am now an
adult of 44 years and I am still "a recovering member". I
think it will be a life time effort to come to terms with
the damage this "cult" instilled into my spirit. I am the
oldest of six children, all of whom were raised in WW
beginning in 1963. My parents had just lost their first
born son, age 1 year, and the loss put them in a perfect
frame of mind to be controlled by the church. They were
afraid of death and afraid of failing God.
didn't support birth control and encouraged large families.
Our family grew, while dad worked longer hours and mom
pinched every penny to make ends meet. Child abuse was
prevalent in the church and we were not the exception. I
would often miss school due to the severe bruising on my
back, arms and legs. A child was never allowed to think or
have any ideas. They were to be seen and not heard and
anything short of that would result in beatings. This
included beatings from other church members if they saw what
was considered wrongful behavior or if (heaven forbid) you
were left in their care.
As the oldest my
job was to help with the younger children. I ended up being
one of the only sources of love my younger siblings really
knew. It may sound crazy but in this fear based end time
church love was never mentioned. It was certainly never
The world was an
evil place and we were called out; we were special. Due to
this, interaction with those outside of our parents or other
church members was never allowed. I never spent the night
at my grandparents or had the fun of friends. My friends
were my siblings and occasional church acquaintances.
taught that man made customs were evil and days such as
Christmas were never celebrated. A birthday was just
another day of the week. I remember when I was very young a
friend in perhaps first grade promised me that if I only
believed in Santa he would definitely come that Christmas.
I lay in bed that Christmas Eve and over and over told
myself "I believe, I believe"! Of course, Santa didn't come
and I was taking the first steps to becoming the great
skeptic I am today. The only great event I remember was the
yearly feast of tabernacles; which I loved. We were called
out, we were special and the feast represented a time when
we would be in the great kingdom of God; finally rewarded
for our good works. What a great feeling, huh?
I remember the
long church services and the opening sermonettes encouraging
record holy day offerings. My poor parents tithed
faithfully over 30% of their income and I know they
faithfully paid even more on these high holy days. I can
still remember the standing ovations as the announcement was
made that record contributions had been collected. A true
sign from God that the end time work must be done; would be
done! At home we never had gifts, never had anything new,
never had toys and survived on beans!! Clothes came from
the monthly used clothing table put out at church.
I never had any
real friends at church. My parents were poor and my dad was
shy so we didn't mingle much. I knew there was a division
of the wealthy and the poorer members in the congregation
and I knew the ministry was royalty.
At 17 years old
I moved out of my family home and in with some relatives. I
had my first boyfriend and soon became sexually active. My
parents and the church constantly sought every opportunity
to break up the relationship. We married because I thought
it was the right thing to do and 4 years and 2 children
later we divorced. I had returned to the church out of deep
instilled beliefs and fear for the sins I had made; namely
having sex, and marrying outside of the church. Although
the divorce was made legal in 1985 the church did not allow
me to date for 3 more years. The church then sent me a
written message stating that the divorce would be allowed
and I could date within the church.
In 1988 I met a
man new to the church and we began dating. We were both
adults and it was found out from gossiping church members
that we were spending nights together. We were given the
ultimatum of stop dating or get married. Because of our
sexual relationship we were not allowed to return to
services until after we were married and after we completed
extensive counseling with the minister. The marriage lasted
13 unhappy years and ended when I found the courage to look
at myself, find myself and make decisions for myself.
I am not a
member of any religious organization. I don't have any real
drive to need that in my life. I find great peace in nature
and in the love of family and friends. I have embraced some
new age ideas such as meditation and I think it is important
to implement peace into your life. However, this has
nothing to do with religion of any sort. In my view
religion is an inherent representation of evil should evil
take any form.
My family is
close and we celebrate all the great pagan holy days! ha/ha
I have a couple of siblings who carry deep wounds and they
refuse to join us for family events such as Christmas
gatherings. I hold no resentments towards my parents
because I know them and I know that they joined the church
and followed the church doctrines and ministers teachings
out of fear. Fear of the end time, fear of failing God,
fear of one of us being hurt and fear of being ostracized by
other members. I love Christmas with my parents now and as
they have aged they have made it very clear that they have
deep regrets to raising us in the WWC. Sadly though
they are again members of the church, under Tkach
Jr., although they left for many years. I think this is due
to a kinship with other long time members and friends that
they have known for decades.
It has been
difficult for me to mix with the world socially due to the
isolation I faced as a child. I always feel as though I am
on the outside looking in....I'm different. This is my
greatest struggle. I could go on for hours but I'll leave
off here. Many good wishes to you on your informative
website. Thank you for sharing and allowing me to share.
Linda, your letter is a classic and your story a treasure.
I envy you for getting as early as you did. I can totally
relate to your isolation even today. I'm very much the
same way in social situations. I hate parties and outside
of work and family, my wife and I don't associate with anyone.
We don't want to. We had social activities shoved
down our throats for years, usually with people we would rather
not associate with. Now the isolation is welcome, but we
also realize that we have lost something that can never be
recovered. Our entire family holds the same attitude
toward religion that you do, except that none of us has found
(or even want) a substitute. May I suggest that you try
some books by Christopher Hitchens? His latest is titled
god Is Not Great; you
can find it at Amazon. It's a riveting read.
Rebeccas letter is a slightly customized form letter the wcg sends
out that expresses the point that they really don't give a damned
about anyone. They got the old goats money, why the hell should they
Better to be lowly in spirit and among the oppressed than
to share plunder with the proud.
Better a poor man whose walk is blameless than a fool
whose lips are perverse.
1 Peter 3:17
It is better, if it is God's will, to suffer for doing
good than for doing evil.
have a point to make, why don't you make it? Stop hiding
behind obscure quotations from some 2000 year-old novel.