A collection of
and Comments from survivors of Herbert W. Armstrong,
Garner Ted Armstrong, The Worldwide Church of God and it's
Articles Pertaining To Herbert W. Armstrong, Garner Ted Armstrong and The Worldwide Church of God
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Email To The Editor
I discovered your website
yesterday by accident. I had no idea how harmful the HWA
cult was until I read the survivor horror stories on
your website. These are the saddest things I can ever
remember reading. My deepest condolences for all who
were caught up in HWA churches & theology.
Anyway, to the point --
little 1 1/2 inch by 1 1/2 inch ads have recently
started popping up on Matt Drudge's news website -- one
of the most heavily trafficked websites in the world (www.drudgereport.com).
They are so offensive, especially now that I know
more of the truth about Herbert W (pervert, hypocrite,
etc) from reading your website. The ad only shows his
head & says "He was right!".
I was considering
emailing Matt Drudge to complain (& furnishing your
website for his information) and asking if he controls
the advertising on his website. If he does, perhaps he
will ban the ads.
Then I thought, who
better to complain than you, who really knows the score
If you don't want to, I
will. Please let me know what you think about this
Sam Van Gundy
Santa Barbara, CA
Iíve seen those ads, too, but I donít know what you can do
about them. It would probably take quite a few letters
or emails or maybe a petition to get anything done about
it, and even that is questionable. It might be
worth a try, but I wouldnít expect too much. The
good news is that most people who read Drudge probably
donít remember HWA, or never heard of him. Aside
from the bragging rights Flurry gets from just having
the ads out there, I seriously doubt theyíre doing him
any good. Back in the 1970s the WCG placed ads in
TV Guide, but I donít think many converts were gained
from them. They were touted as a ďwitnessĒ,
which essentially meant that we were doing our job
without expecting much in the way of results.
If you decide to do it, I wish you luck.
Thank you for the information on this website.
I can add the name Nancy Norwood to the
list of WCG suicides - a friend of my sister in law in
Updated January, 2013 HERE.
I have been to your website on several times and it seem to me you are very much down on the WCG and it's leader past and present, so can you please tell me your story with them.
You need not reply to
this or the other e-mail I read your FAQ and it seem you are a
very bitter man, HWA did not kill your wife, her belief in God
did. She was trusting God to heal her and He allowed her to die
something that I believe she understood but you do not. She will
be a God one day and I am quite sure she wants to see you in the
Kingdom of God. For you to feel the way you feel is
understandable but it also shows you never really believed the
truth you were hearing, you were following a man and not Jesus
Christ. Happily one day you will know. Until then keep being
bitter and angry and resentful and unforgiving. Your first
wife would want you to be forgiving and not holding a grudge. It
don't matter, however, what I think of you, that is between you
and the God you once believed in but no longer because He did
not answer your prayers in the way you wanted them to be
answered. Don't worry about a reply, this is the last time I
will contact you.
With Godly love,
notice that on your web site that you indicate that there are
still copies of "The Tangled Web" available, is this
correct and can they be purchased from John Hadden Publishers?
Or is the web-site not up to date?
I'm not sure where you saw that, but it was probably in the Ambassador Report. The last AR was written almost ten years ago and the earliest one came out around 1975. My understanding is that The Tangled Web is no longer available commercially. You might be able to find one on e-Bay or by contacting other ex membrs of the WCG.
Have been to your site several times in the past...re-reading and remembering.
However, the reason for this mail is simply to post, or request any sites/links/groups or forums that are about getting back in touch with others from the old wwcg.
I grew up in wwcg in the years of the 60's/70's/80's, attending the Gasden[al], Chattanooga[tn], Rome[ga] areas most of the time, and interested in reconnecting with the kids of that area in the wwcg, an especially those from those areas. I also attended SEP/Orr '75/'78.
While we all must have lots of different views now, we have/had as a base, the experience that we can all relate to, even if differently.
Feel free to repost, forward, or point me to any and all possibilities. Feel free to publish my email/site[s].
There are a number of websites where ex COG people get together. I don't visit more than one or two so I don't know what they are, but you can start by checking out the PT Forum at the bottom of the main page. Several people there can probably tell you which sites to visit, and from there you should be able to find the rest of them. I know for sure that there is a site for AC alumni, but again, I don't know the URL. You might also try Ambassador Watch. The editor there is very savvy about these things.
I finally got around to emailing firstname.lastname@example.org
to complain. I hope he responds favorably.
That will be interesting. Let me know how it plays out.
I don't know if I sent this or not.
I saw your website about cults, etc.
I just got through reading your article
on the Internet about the people who predict and fail
concerning the end of the world and the Lord's coming.
I agree with you totally in that these false
prophets are constantly wrong and leading the
people away from the Lord.
I know, because I was in such a cult in
the 70' s and early 80' s in Tucson, Arizona.
They were heavily into the end-times and the leader ("the
Prophet") had set a date for the Lord's coming for
June 1981 and the end of the world for 1988. He based it
on the 40 year generation starting with the restoration of
Israel as a nation.
They had other strange doctrines of devils such as to have
nothing to do with your family if they don't believe like
they do and that everything is a demon. This put you
in a demonic sort of consciousness.
But, primarily, they had you living for
a day in the future that would never come and you were
left with nothing after forsaking all and the Lord didn't
show up. You were always being driven to "get
in the word", "get in the word", which was
only their interpretation. And they wanted you to be
full time in the ministry to get prepared for the Lord's
coming. So, it was all new to me and I didn't know
it was a cult, but that really what these groups are.
And they carry a heavy demon of religion, etc. with them.
You can see more about what I am talking
about under the heading "220 dates for the end of the
That sounds really familiar. Glad you got out.
For a better understanding
of how people were deceived by the Armstrong's, I encourage you
to review and study all of the pages and articles of web site www.aworlddeceived.xxx
in particular the articles on Tithing, False Apostles and False
Christs and Can Christianity or Any Other Religion Save You? You
may want to consider a direct link to these articles.
I have also attached a
recent copy of an editiorial response to our local paper
entitled: People Beware! Please do contact us if you have any
questions. With kind regards.
Andy & Dianne van den
In a recent advertisement headlined: Why Is There so Much Hatred In The Mideast?, the local chapter of the Church of God offered an array of booklets and CDís in which there is no salvation.
Former members of the Worldwide Church of God, founded many years ago by Herbert and Garner Ted Armstrong have founded a web site entitled www.hwarmstrong.com headlined the ĎPainful Truthí. The web site lists more than hundreds of testimonials of people whose lives have been ruined and destroyed as former members of this ministry. The purpose of the web site was to warn others and every month there are still new testimonials added.
On the bottom of every booklet
handed out by the WCG it reads: ĎThe activities of the Garner
Ted Armstrong Evangelistic Association are paid for by the
tithes, offerings and donations freely given. The Armstrongís
built themselvesí a lavish multi-million dollar empire over a
fifty year period but history has already shown that it is
coming down faster than it took them to build. There are many
other people that have sprung up in similar fashion, i.e.
Kenneth Copeland, Jack Van Impe, Joel Osteen, Benny Hinn, Joyce
Meyer, Paula White, Pat Robertson, etc., etc. who all claim to
come to you in the Name of Jesus Christ while their message has
nothing to do with the teachings of Christ and the apostles as
recorded in the Bible. They prey on the people of this world for
only one purpose and that is to swell their own coffers.
Andy G. van den Berg,
Are you keeping up with the lies of Ron Weinland? I hope so. He is back pedaling as fast as he can (see his website with updated message from June 20th). We need people with websites to keep posting messages about his contradictions. He has so backed himself into a corner, that I am hoping his latest lies are bringing his ministry to a final close. One less Armstrong offshoot in the world would be a GREAT thing.
Iíve been following his progress, but not closely. I check in at Ambassador Watch every couple of days. I would say the guy is a complete fool to make a hard prediction like that and set the date so soon. He had to know it would cost him.
Is it possible, do you think, that he actually believes it himself?
suppose it is possible. That would make him a bigger fool than
To all who have known by
dear husband, Fred Brogaard:
I wanted to let anyone who
cares that my dear Fred died Sunday morning, 06/22/2008, between
12:00 midnight and 12:35 A.M. Fred's youngest brother, was sleeping on
the futon in the family room where we had set up the hospital bed for
Fred who was diagnosed with inoperable, incurable stomach cancer on
December 10, 2007. Fred's 6 siblings and their spouses had been taking
turns for almost 2 weeks to help me at night care for and make
comfortable my darling husband. Fred's brother was awakened by the
quietness in the room after Fred's heavy, labored breathing
for almost a day. He checked and realized that Fred had already
slipped away. His brother then awakened me in the bedroom next to the
family room. We had retired around 10:30 P.M. on Saturday night, and I
had checked on Fred about 11:15 P.M., kissed him on the forehead, and
his cheeks and told him I was there and would see him later; but Fred
had been unresponsive to anyone for about a day and a half. (I
frequently awakened during the last week and a half after Fred
was confined in bed.)
Unlike me, my precious Fred
remained a dedicated Christian right up to the end. Fred is to be
cremated. Out of respect for his religious beliefs and his
Lutheran family, there will be a memorial service at Fred's
church this coming Saturday (06/28/2008) at 11:00 A.M. - St.
Paul Lutheran Church in Fremont, WI, where Fred was a member before
the WCG and AC snagged him way back in the early 1960s. At that time,
he was studying to be a Lutheran pastor.) This is a very
difficult time for me, as I am definitely not a believer, and hearing
him "preached into heaven" or awaiting the resurrection is
not something I look forward to. But, as I said, this is
primarily for his family who need to mourn and say good-by in their
own way. Fred, as a WCG pastor, oversaw churches in Tacoma, Seattle,
Olympia, and Sedro-Wooley (sp?), WA.
Just thought you should know, "Andy VanDerBerg" (the name does sound familiar but I can't place it off-hand), who wrote in plugging his site "aworlddeceived.xxx" is actually trying to promote a Hislop/Two Babylons ripoff book.
Looking through his website, he's got all the same Hislop arguments, i.e., the RCC wears red, the "true truth" has been "lost" for two thousand years. He's an apologist all right. You might want to remove the link, just in case.
VanDerBerg is trying to distance his "ministry" from the CoG and HWA, but he's making all the same arguments we have seen, over and over, and over and over again.
Thanks for the tip. I disabled the link to protect the unwary.
Weinland of "The Church of God Ė Preparing for the Kingdom of
God" has predicted a nuclear explosion in the United States by
July 16th, 2008; or, if this doesn't happen, he will declare himself a
false prophet. You may already know or suspect that he is a false
prophet, but keep in mind that the fruit does not fall far from the
tree. Weinland was spawned by another false prophet, Herbert W.
Armstrong. In this writing we will show you how and why these men,
while espousing some true doctrines, lead many in error.
I'm a little slow, but I think I'm catching on. You're
correct about Weinland, but I'm not going to post your link so you can
draw followers to yourself instead. We don't support cults of
am a graduate of Waterfield Institute of Nuwaraeliya, Sri Lanka in
conjunction with Ambassador Foundation. I passed out
in 1988 & have lost contact since.
would really appreciate some details of Alumni or faculty in USA / SL
Ruwina. Thanks for writing. Someone recently asked a
similar question. You can find the reply by scrolling up to June
15, 2008 above..
I wish you luck in locating old friends.
is a spiritual realm with spiritual principles that exist whether you
believe them or not. You can say you donít believe in gravity;
however you benefit or suffer from it whether you believe it or not.
Same is true of spiritual principles.
Just because 90% of Christians have no
clue who they are in Christ, doesnít mean God doesnít exist or the
Bible is not the truth.
Question #17 Aren't you making false accusations?
make no false accusations. In fact, if you or your church can prove
anything on The Painful Truth to be false, I will remove it. I have
offered that from the beginning.
OK, here goes:
The Bible is the inerrant word of God,
it even says so, therefore, I have just proved your comments about it
wrong. Sort of the same basis you use for truth. IN other
words, you ďTHINKĒ what you say is truth without a shred of proof
(because no one in the history of the world has ever proved the bible
to contain errors other than grammatical, if for no other reason than
itís virtually impossible to prove a negative, like youíre asking
for in question #17). You think you speak the truth, I know I
speak the truth and therefore Iím right, and therefore I just proved
you wrong, and itís impossible for you to prove my statement wrong,
so therefore your statement IS false, I just proved it.
Now that we got all the silliness of
your site out of the way, I have one question for you, why are you so
scared to ask God to reveal Himself or the truth to you?
BTW, hereís a fun question for your
readers who think they are Christian and a sinner at the same time,
while at the same time they have no clue who they are in Christ.
Since 90% think they are sinners or sinners saved by grace, this one
passage shows why they still act like sinners, and therefore
interesting that, because you disagree with the premise of our
website, you automatically become hostile.
Usually the only time people do that is 1) they have something
to lose, or 2) they arenít sure of their position, and are therefore
afraid. I was once a true
believer like you, and I was afraid all the time.
I mean, ALL THE TIME. And
I was hostile to anyone who held a different opinion.
said all that, letís take a look at your message.
of all, the man who wrote Question 17 is no longer affiliated with
this website. He retired
some years ago, so I donít have
to defend anything that he wrote.
We can skip that one.
in your attempt to refute Question 17 you stepped in a big hole when
you wrote: The
Bible is the inerrant word of God, it even says so, therefore, I have
just proved your comments about it wrong.
would you say if we met face to face and I told you I was president of
the United States. It
might go something like this:
Hello, my name is William Alan Gluck.
I donít believe weíve met.
Pleased to meet you, Mr. Gluck. Iím
president of the United States.
Uh, excuse me, but I believe George W. Bush is the president of the
No, that isnít true. Iím
the president of the United States.
Iím sorry, but I donít believe you.
Well of course Iím the president.
I just told you I was. That
proves that I am.
(long pause): Thatís the dumbest thing Iíve ever heard in my life.
you know what? You would
be right. Saying that my
claim alone proves that Iím the president is really stupid.
And saying the Bible is the inerrant word of God just because
the Bible claims to be the inerrant word of God is just as stupid.
If thatís all the proof you have, then I suggest you check
out the Koran or the Book of Mormon.
stepped in another hole when you wrote:
no one in the history of the world has ever proved the bible to
contain errors other than grammatical, if for no other reason than
itís virtually impossible to prove a negative
Bible is riddled with errors and inconsistencies from cover to cover.
Can you tell me why there are two different creation accounts,
and they donít match up? Why
there are two accounts of the flood, and they donít match?
Why there are two accounts of Moses and the rock that gave
water, and they donít agree? Why
there are two definitions of the holy days and they donít agree?
Why there are two accounts of how and when tithes are to be
paid and they donít agree? Why
there are FOUR accounts of the life of Jesus and none of them agree?
How Moses could write the first five books of the Bible, even
though one of them describes his own death (which means someone at
least had to finish it for him, since he was DEAD!)
And thatís just the tip of the iceberg!
then you wrote this gem: I
know I speak the truth and therefore Iím right, and therefore I just
proved you wrong, and itís impossible for you to prove my statement
wrong, so therefore your statement IS false, I just proved it.
wonít even try to unravel the ďlogicĒ behind that one.
(Or were you trying to make a point?)
are you so scared to ask God to reveal Himself or the truth to you?
would I be scared of god, since she doesnít exist?
God had 44 years to reveal itself to me, and Iím still
a fun question for your readers who think they are Christian and a
sinner at the same time, while at the same time they have no clue who
they are in Christ. Since 90% think they are sinners or sinners
saved by grace, this one passage shows why they still act like
sinners, and therefore hypocritical:
do you get those figures from? What
do you know about our readers and their beliefs?
You sound like Bill Clinton declaring that 50,000 people a year
die from second-hand smoke, when there are no statistics on any such
thing and no way to quantify them if there were.
As for this ďone passageĒ, I deleted it.
Youíve read the rules, apparently,
and one of them prohibits quoting scripture here to ďproveĒ your
point. The Bible has no
authority on this website, and anyone who quotes it will get censored.
Thatís the painful truth.
Taking something "on faith" means believing something you
can't prove, something for which there is no evidence. I can't
prove god doesn't exist and you can't prove it does. Until that
deadlock changes we can go in circles forever, and others will
continue to do so. All anyone knows for sure is that we all die
eventually. We know for sure that we have one life. No one
has ever come back to describe anything remotely like an afterlife,
and in the absence of such evidence, few thinking people will cling to
the hope that there is one. When other cultures embrace
fantasies we call it superstition. When we do the same thing we
call it faith. Go figure.
Taking something "on faith" means believing something you can't prove, something for which there is no evidence. I can't prove god doesn't exist and you can't prove it does. Until that deadlock changes we can go in circles forever, and others will continue to do so. All anyone knows for sure is that we all die eventually. We know for sure that we have one life. No one has ever come back to describe anything remotely like an afterlife, and in the absence of such evidence, few thinking people will cling to the hope that there is one. When other cultures embrace fantasies we call it superstition. When we do the same thing we call it faith. Go figure.
If you are clinging to the hope of a resurrection, to paraphrase Paul, you are of all men most miserable. The best advice I can give you is to get a life. Drop the religious crap and live the one life you have now. If another life is waitng for you, that's great, but don't sacrifice this one by waiting for a better one. Odds are very good that it doesn't exist.
of copyright' of my compilation of some biblical verses
under the title, The Original Satanic Verses,
together with my comments thereon (see copy below from your web
site), has no basis in copyright law. I
did not copyright it myself and therefore you have
no right to copyright it. I don't mind at all if you or others
publicize it to the 'four corners' of the world because I
want it to be read far and wide; that's why I did not copyright it.
I herewith ask that you please indicate that your general 'copyright' notice on your web site is NOT applicable with respect to The Original Satanic Verses so that your readers will not be hesitant to reproduce it. You are free, of course, to post this notice on your web site in order to accomplish the same purpose.
I invite you to visit my web site at www.the--beauty--of--truth.com where
you can read a slightly revised version of The Original Satanic Verses.
Pitman Buck, Jr.
The copyright notice has been removed.
I read your website about
the church in Fort Worthand going to the Swing time center.
I grew up there going to
that same church. Do you remember the small balcony? The one that
" few" could even dare to walk up to? Do you Remember "
I remember when Pastor Geen
was there, Pastor Smith,Pastor Hertzong, and a few others. Did by chance you know any
one there with the last name of " Hart" or
Does the name Rick Snead
ring a bell? do let me know. These are
some people I do know.. as my former last name was "Hart". I
had it legally changed a few years ago.
My best friend back then
was Jhon Hale.. He had three brothers, two sisters all attending.
E mail me
never personally attended that church, but I will post your letter and
see if we get any hits. Iíll also put it on the 411 page.
I recognized several names on your ministers list. However, Leslie Schmedes is NOT included. Any special reason? He was a pretty good minister until HWA died and WCG went nuts. I think he still is a minister of WCG.
I haven't heard of Mr. Schmedes until now. The editor who posted those names is no longer here, but I suspect he took them from one of the WCG publications that listed the ministers worldwide. Perhaps Mr. Schmedes was not listed there, or he may have simply been overlooked.
I'm really unsure as to whether
anyone is still checking this email address, or what Im even trying to
do by contacting you, but I suppose Ill submit my curiosity anyways.
My names Greg and I'm John
Trechak's nephew. A few years ago I googled my last name and came
across whats like a trove of letters in regards to the death of my
late uncle. At the time I had no idea what any of it was about. I was
11 when he died and never knew him in person, save like one phone
conversation. The answers to some of my questions have been elusive,
but I think Ive pieced a good bit of it together by now.
Anyways, I randomly googled my name again, came across your site and decided to send a word out.
Greg, it's good to hear from you.
Your uncle is something of a god to a lot of people who used to
attend WCG. For many years
he documented the abuses and corruption of that organization and made
it available to anyone who was willing to look at it.
If you have seen Ambassador Reports at the Painful
Truth site, you will understand how much effort he put into it.
That's all his work.
If you have any memories of him you'd like to share, I'll be happy to post them.
Thanks for writing.
Thanks for writing.
I found your website on
accident and felt I needed to write to you. I was born in
1971 and my mother had been an Armstrong follower for a few
years prior to my birth. To put it bluntly, I thought my
life was a living hell while I was growing up, but, I never
dreamed it could actually get worse into my adulthood. When
I turned 18 and moved away, I really believed I could put the
whole thing behind me and pretend it never happened-I didn't
have to live that way any more since I was on my own.
When I read your extensive apology list, it was easy for me to
relate to 99% of it, because that was my entire childhood, and
we are all still suffering today.
I don't think I saw this
scenerio on the list: my mother has 7 siblings, and every
sibling attended my grandfather's funeral and burial, EXCEPT my
mother-she did not come to her own father's funeral because she
was REQUIRED to go to the feast. My grandfather died in
2006, so as you can see this is a recent occurance. I
have resolved myself to believe that my mother will never
escape. She is brainwashed so badly, she will never be a
normal person, her life is over and I feel I have completely
lost my mother, she is not a mother to me, but rather, a puppet.
She is still, to this date, attending the Philadelphia Church of
God, now, under Flurry's influence.
I give up. I don't know
what else to say. If someone wants to chat sometime,
please feel free to call me. I can tell you many details of
my mom's ranting about the church brainwashing crap they are doing
currently. It would be nice to chat with someone
who has been what I and my family have been through, too.
you want that number published at the website? You might
get some calls from people you donít want to hear from.
I may suggest it, I think you would enjoy the PT forum. Lots
of people there just like you. You can sign up at the
You are right; I don't know what I was thinking! Thanks for the advice....
Its bizarre that I stumbled
on to this website today, but it brought a huge floodgate of memories
back. I am not sure how I feel about them.
I was brought up
in the church when I went to live with my grandparents after my
parents died. My two uncles were very involved, in fact, my
uncle was the head gardner at the AC Big Sandy Campus for years
until it closed I believe, and both uncles were deacons in the
church. When that is how you grow up you don't think of it
as "brainwashing" or cultish, but like many religions it was
"restrictive" I had many good times and long term
friendships with people I went to church with and some great memories
of it like the Feast in Lake Tahoe, being a cheerleader for our YES
basketball team and competing in cheer competitions, church
dances and socials, the relationships since faded but not from
judging me or excommunication. But in retrospect, the fear
factor of this was huge, running in the house before sundown on a
Friday night as a 8 -10 year old wondering if I would be struck down
if I didn't make it, the argument about fasting and whether you should
brush your teeth (this was a major debate with myself and a friends
dad,I told him god didn't like stinky breath) or accidentally
eating what you were not supposed to or taking a drink by force of
habit when you were supposed to be fasting and having everyone look at
you or being a teenager that was judged constantly as promiscuous but
was still a virgin when she married (outside of the church) I dated a
ministers son while still in the church but it was a total nightmare,
but I will say his dad was great it was just everyone else judging and
gossip mongering that made me leave.
It took a long time to
reprogram my brain into things, for years I would never eat pork, felt
like I was sinning when having Xmas for my family but it is since my
favorite time of the year and I go at it with gusto or celebrating
birthdays, I just felt like "how could this have all been
wrong" My grandmother passed before all of the breakdowns
in the church happened I think it would have devasted her she so loved
the church and what she thought it stood for neither of my uncles will
even speak about what happened its like they are too embarrassed or
humiliated. My grandma always said Garner Ted was a vain man and
would have to answer to that one day, but I never thought the HW would
have done the things that he did, but as a congregation we were pretty
sheltered from all of the rumors and gossip I always felt our pastor
was an evil vindictive man with his own agenda, and things were just
starting to fall apart when I left I didn't find out about the split
for years. And when I asked someone they really didn't want to
talk about it like it was a big secret for the outsider I had become.
Again I just stumbled on
this and felt compelled to make a statement, I have nothing too
horrible to comment on, no suicides or horrible events that caused me
mental torment, just sad that so many really good people gave so much
of themselves to a man (not a prophet) who was using them for personal
gain. You don't have to be in a religion to have that happen, it
is happening to everyone every day, this was just a bit more
sensational and personal to me.
I still feel that it
gave me some of the values I have today, family is important, and just
trying to be a "good" person, the rest is all garbage that
people should just let go of. A lot worse can happen to people
than what I have read, being bitter will not help.
glad you found us. Sounds like you were in the thick of it for
true the church did teach us some good values, but most other churches
also teach them. You can find most of those same values at a 4th
of July parade.
for being bitter, Iím not. Like you, I never suffered nearly
as much as some Iíve read about and talked to. In any case,
bitterness usually fades with time. The important thing, and the
reason this site exists, is to warn any who will listen that the abuse
is still going on, and that survivors are not alone.
(Editor's note: The following message screams for a detailed response; rather than print the message then reprinting it with comments, the editor's responses will be embedded in the message itself.)
At the end of John O.'s "666" article he asked a question, and I wished to respond to him, but the e-mail address ( Enlyten@hotmail.com ) is apparently not good.
Our apologies. We haven't heard from JohnO for several years.
I think you have done a fine thing with The Painful Truth site, and here is what I wanted to share with John:
Thank you. Hope you still feel that way by the end of your email. We hope he is well, but we have no information on his current status.
I was reading the article you wrote "666", that is on the Painful Truth website.
At the end you ask if anyone has any ideas on the 666.
I was shown by the LORD several months before John Paul died that Ratzinger is the one that goes into "perdition" - and I was able to predict that he would be made Pope in one day, which is quicker than any other Pope in at least the past 300 years.
Wow! The LORD spoke to you personally! I've often wanted to meet someone who had that experience, so tell me -- how did he do it? Western Union? U.S. Postal Service? FedEx? Email? I'd really like to know.
And I can prove it.
Of course you can. Just like you can prove that God really exists.
The information, supplied by the Holy Spirit, led me to find the main terms in this Bible Code in advance:
Oh, the INTERNET! I should have figured that out. Well, that certainly clears it up. You read Hebrew, do you?
The odds are way against this being a random code - more than a million to one.
I was quite baffled by the "666" though - I tried for months to figure it out, then I watched the video on Revelation 17 on this website:
Maybe the reason you had trouble with it is that it was misinterpreted. Latest word, as of a couple of years back, is that the real number isn't 666, but 612. Check your area codes.
Which I highly recommend.
I took this info, along with what I was shown by Spirit regarding Ratzinger, and St. Malachi' Prophecy of the Popes and found this Bible Code which is millions and millions to one chance of being a random:
And the 666 calculation is on this page.
More gibberish. Looks like the floor tile in a public toilet.
And before you reject the idea of there being Codes in the Bible PLEASE check out this page:
Yeah, I think we heard about this on Paul and Jan Crouch's TV show several years back. Very convincing. [hack] [cough]
There is definitely a message there for humanity.
Yes, and the message is...KOOK!
And this page has some examples of "codes" in the visible text of scripture:
Most any Bible with footnotes will confirm these codes (but most do a very poor job of explaining it)
And this page has a link to a short booklet showing that Christ's prophecy that nothing would come up missing from The Torah - not even the upside down letters that no one has been able to figure out why they are even there:
22 pages (not counting the Appendix) that show not one letter is missing from the Torah and that the writer knew pi out to 500,000 decimal places.
Ratzinger is the False Prophet, his long time friend (back to their Hitler Youth days) Edmund Stoiber is The King of the North / The Beast.
Got it. John Paul worked for I.G. Farben, and WCG said he was probably the false prophet. Turned out that Herbert Armstrong was...and now those who follow in his footsteps.
You can take it to the bank.
No, you can, I'm sure.
And, for the record, I do not accept tithes, offers, or donations -
Ya know what? We've heard all this crap before. Herbert spouted crap for more than 50 years, and Herman Hoeh and Waterhouse spouted more crap. This may be slightly different crap but it's still crap, someone trying to exalt himself and make idiots swoon because of all the pretty characters in primitive languages. Take it somewhere else, pal. You picked the wrong website.
Hi, I thought you might be
interested in a somewhat unique look at why there are two
different accounts of creation. In an effort to unify
evolutionism and creationism my Dad wrote a book contemplating
this very subject. The book attempts to show why
Science can be right without contradicting Biblical teachings. You
may or may not find it thought provoking but if you are interested in
learning more look it up. It's the first and only book he
has ever written. The title is "New Evidence for Two
Human Origins" by Gary T. Mayer. It's self published.
New Evidence for Two Human Origins by Gary T. Mayer
NEW EVIDENCE FOR TWO HUMAN
ORIGINS: Discoveries That Reconcile The Bible and Science Gary
The subject of human
origins is a topic that not only ...
Am I interested? No. For two reasons: 1) attempting to reconcile anything in the Bible is foolish and futile because the book was written solely to empower ancient religions tyrants and today empowers modern ones; 2) the quest to discover how life began is fun but not important. Knowing the answer won't cure cancer or bring about world peace, or put food on the table.
Good luck peddliing your dad's book.
wanted to thank you for keeping The Painful Truth website going.
I just happened to stumble across it the other day and found it
helpful and healing.
was raised in RCG and WCG from 1960 at age 5, went thru AC, suffered
for years from anxiety and depression, married a nice guy (also
raised in the church) who got drafted to be a "lay pastor"
for 4 years in the late 1990's, just as I was trying getting up the
courage to finally leave. My mom & one sister still
attend a splinter group. My husband's parents and one
brother do also (in fact, my father-in-law holds tiny services
in their home every Saturday and gives old-time Herbert sermons).
So because we still visit, it's hard to put the wounds of
the past behind.
seeing your website, I sent out this email to a few friends and
family, including one sister-in-law who I thought was empathetic (she
wasn't raised in WCG, and attends a local mainstream
Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 2:37 AM, Rhonda <>
for a correct name, I came across the following website about my
it made me cry (a good thing).
more step in the direction of healing . . .
list of apologies by pastors and former pastors of Radio Church
of God & Worldwide Church of God!
got this reply from her:
I have caught snippets of your thoughts and feelings over the years regarding WCG and it makes me so sad that you still carry this baggage with you. I truly hope and pray that you find peace with your life. This is too much to hold so close for so long.
I say these things with concern for you and your family
went back to your website and found solace in your empathy, humor,
sarcasm and insight for survivors of WCG, especially where you state
how UNHELPFUL it is when people tell us to "get over
it" and that they'll "pray for us.
now a borderline agnostic, allergic to organized religion.
About the only group I can stomach (in small doses) are the
Herbert's been coming back to haunt me lately ~ I've had
a serious relapse of anxiety with the international financial meltdown
of the past few days, and am trying to pull out of a state of
shock over people clamoring to "buy gold,"
saying this is worse than 1929, and that we may be seeing "the
last train out of Nazi Germany", etc.
for rambling . . . just wanted you to know that what's on your website is
still relevant and helpful!
I'm wondering if you have any information about
He's involved with a very large fraud/scam
operation and I'm one of the victims. I understand that he was
or is involved with this church. I tried the search tool but it
brought me back to the first page and I cannot see any info about him
Thanks so much.
name doesn't ring an immediate bell. I checked the list of
church pastors and didn't find him listed, but he may have been a
member or low-level local minister somewhere. Maybe one of our
readers will recognize the name and respond by email.
hi, my name is lynn schmidt, my maiden name is jacobs. i was born into the cult in 1962.im 46 years old and still feel the effects of growing up in the "church'.what an absolutely horrable childhood. my mom thought i was posessed one time when i was 6, so the minesters came to the house and did all that crap to me to get the demon out! needless to say i ended up doin all kinds of drugs at the age of 11. im just now getting my life together, after years of bad marriages 3 to be exact, and drugs and alchol, and self loathing. i would like to find people i grew up with in the " church".i ended up getting married to a guy from mt pocono, and moving to big sandy. we were married for 7 years before i just couldnt take it anymore, and left him and the " church".i am happy now, im single and live outside of philladelphia, pa. i went to the church in harrisgurg, pa. when i was younger, and would like to hear from my friends that time, see how they are and how they are doing. i saw a lot of crap in the church when i lived in big sandy. even herbert w, and garner ted. wat a bunch of hipocrites they were. i still hate them and always will for robing me of a great childhood and a normal life. thank you for your website it is awesome, it helpes me alot, to know that there are other people messed up like me. lynn schmidt.
Unfortunately we hear lots of stories like yours, Lynn. I'm also glad you found our site. Let us know if we can help.
Reply to Diane about Richard Gipe:
Yes, Rick Gipe was a 'minister" in WCG back in the late 70s. He was "pastor" of the Garden Grove church when I lived there. He was always trying get-rich-quick schemes. I lost track of him after leaving California.
Wow what alot of information I have been reading about the church. I wish I could be free to really tell you who I am and the things I experienced. I am not at liberty to go there just yet. I was related (closely) to HWA and GTA. I always knew the lies, the shame, and most of all the lies about our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Today I am finally free of the leaglelism that kept me burried and the gult of "going against the family". So much hurt to so many people. I pray now for the comfort and pressence of our Lord to be with those still plagued by the church. I just hope the past members and their families will read the Bible and see the truth and grace of God. Know His love and not His anger! I don't
know if all that is written about the church is true but I do know for a fact that most of it IS! I must forgive them and find the grace of God to do that. I guess that's why HE is God! To forgive people in your family who do not deserve it is so hard!!! I will pray for that grace always.
Peace be with you
In Christ [name wihheld]
I'd also love to know exactly who you are, and maybe someday you can reveal it. Thanks for writing.
I am glad that finally I have removed myself vfrom the york of slavery
I have faced hard time in the anti Armstrong group,CCG hich tend to differ ith Armstrong teachings
Surely hat rong I made if it happened that one as using my snap to conatc other group?
Yes infact opening for someone over 21 churches in Kenya and also plantying for someone churches in Eastern Africa!!!!!!!
hat is that I orked for this church!!!they sent me to buy copiers but I forgot and and only bought printer and comps ,yet for all that Ihave done for Him He still demand money from me
Ias agood friend to Mr park,Briby Russell and Rod King but ade endede up spelling these guys from us ,any ay if He dont like Aremstrong teachings ,Did He come from
Teachings are not perfect
Talk to CCG to change
All the churches hich Iopened He ill not control them
The CCG will not change. None of them will change. If you are no longer part of them, count yourself lucky and don't look back. Thanks for writing.
Hi! just received this
message from a fellow ex-WCGer & ACer.
----- Original Message
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 11:56 PM
In case you haven't been
informed, another of the Worldwide old guard is gone. Here's the
find your site very interesting.
was living in London in the early 1980s, when Armstronism was at
its high point in England. At that time, newspaper shops in
London often had a stand outside the door filled with copies of
the Plain Truth for passers-by to pick up.
man called John R. Schroeder, then "Contributing
Editor" of PT, was my "pastor." Remember him?
about two months of visits, I saw the contradictions and
withdrew from him.... just in time... when I phoned him to say
I'd had enough, he replied:
I don't know what to say. I've never had a case like you. I was
going to invite you to come to church...."
took the useful information from all the booklets, for which I
am still greateful, while discarding the funny bits.
thing that struck me about the WCG in England was that there was
no shortage of money. WCG were renting big, luxurious houses
at huge cost around London for their "pastors" who
recruited new members in this country. Your site helps me to
understand where all the money was coming from.
am of Irish Catholic extraction. Any Irish-born person aged
sixty or over will recognise WCG as a mirror image of Irish
Catholicism in the 1960s. Many other religious groups today -
including some major ones - are equally oppressive and
abusive, but their members are well trained and well
intimidated, and rarely "blow the whistle." They
suffer on in silence for life. I greatly welcome sites like
yours which tell it like it is. I'm wondering if there is a
corresponding site for Irish-born Catholics aged sixty or more,
but I am not hopeful.
up the good work.
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