"Jack & Jill"  

"E-mail between Jack and Jill, or if you like, between father and son."

3-2-09

2-25-09

Hello,

I am married to one of the children of the New World church of god now for 25 years,Her parents mainly her dad was the one brained washed by Herbert,He quit going for a little while but is back in it AGAIN.My wife and I have had our issues over the years,mainly on sex,they brained washed her and her sister and brother that sex was a bad thing from a very early age,my wife HATED that cult as well as her brother and sister.Her brother has never been married and her sister has been married 5 times.My question is do you know where we can get some help ? We would be VERY interested in any legal action against these ass holes,I came from a normal Christian family,are first Christmas together 25 years ago made my wife cry,she had NO idea what she had missed out on her whole life.Her dad is hooked on the bottle and has been now for over 30+ years,Please get back to me with any info at all that might help our relationship,We are still 25 years later still struggling with sex and affection due to there childhood in this cult.

I have a lot more horror stories about there childhood I can share with you.

Thanks for your time.

Still hoping!

The New World Church of God keeps trying to offer stones instead of bread to you ehh? You may want to consider undue influence. I am indeed surprised that the wcg or one of it's whore offshoots have not been named in a class action lawsuit. If you file let us know. We still have some readers that would be interested.

So you say you need help:

I have always suggested that professional help from a counselor would be the first place to start.

It is important to understand how you got to this point in life. Starting with yourself, you can make the commitment to change. Material here on the Painful Truth is bountiful. I would suggest starting by reading the article on Rational Recovery.

Secondary, the Exit and Support Network has some fine material that you may find useful.

Now to the issue of sex. Herbert came from the age where many women thought sex even in marriage was sinful. He passed that on to his followers. If he could control your sex life, what you ate, what days you kept, he could control you. You learned submission. Same thing with Herb's choice of “Godly” music. If he said it was “melodic music, full of harmony” you better not disagree with him.

Here is a page from “Men, Women and Gods” that might be useful for you both. Remember that the clergy represent insanity masquerading as religion. Pot house drunks such as Herbert W. Armstrong want to control every aspect of our lives. Fight back!

Editor.

2/09/09

Hi,  
 
I just wanted to let you know that I am disappointed that the "Best of Becker" has been removed. We were friends back in the old WCG days and I was enjoying his writing and hoped to read the rest of his articles.  
 
Regards, 
 
Vaughn Woodfield 
 

At the request of a certain guru we had to pull the link until we get the time to do some heavy editing. Keep checking back.

2/10/09

Dear ED

At last it all makes sense!

Why were the people in general in the WCG like they were? What was their problem?

I think I now know the answer! This is it:

 
People in the WCG loved the chief seats and loved to lord it over people. These people were simply Pharisees. Armstrongism preached the strict observance of the old testament laws just as the Pharisees did and omitted the weightier matter of love. If Jesus came today and acted in the same manner these church people would have treated him just like the Pharisees did! They would persecute and crucified him again!

The entire new testament is about persecution, but who are the people who did the persecution? NOT the people of the world, but the "religious" people in almost every single case. Why would any one of the world really persecute a person who was decent, kind and acted as a true Christian towards them?

Why would any Pharisee persecute a person who was decent, kind and acted as a true Christian? Because they really think that they can be saved by keeping the law and they have earned their kingship and other people are a threat to their position!  Christ said search the scriptures for in them you think you have life, but they are what testify of me!    Pharisees thought they could be saved by keeping certain laws, Christ said otherwise!  The WCG preached the same message that you need to keep all the old testament laws! They are of their father the devil who thinks he was worthy to rule and transforms himself as an angel of light.

Armstrong's message was about the coming Kingdom of God to Rule with power and authority and to reward his servants, something that really appeals to Pharisees;  power and authority because they have "earned" it. Have we not done this or that in your name, however Christ will say: depart from me because I have never known you!   They didn't practice Christian values of love etc, but sort to be justified by their own righteousness!   Hypocrites.

Now the point of this is that if you were are decent person  who tried to practice Christian values ,then you should really expect a Pharisee sect to persecute you just like they did to Christ and all other true Christians!  Now that makes sense! 

That's what happened to any decent person who followed Christ and not their standards, the standards of the WCG!

Fortunately Christ said except your righteousness exceed that of the Pharisees you will in no way enter into the kingdom of God! 

No wonder!             

Ex Member Australia! 

Who ever said that the WCG and all it's minnions ever followed Christ to start with? Religion always has been and will continue to be about money and power.

1/13/09

Dear Ed
 
I can't get the movie on file, pls e-mail me. Thanks.
 
I have always wanted to e-mail you just to say this:
 
3 and a half years in the PCG is quite enough for me.
As far as I'm concerned my/the tribulation is over!
 
Keep up the good work if you still do.
 
Sincerely Yours,
 
Robert C. Laguatan
Manila, Philippines

Which movie are you talking about? This one?

1/15/09

Hi Ed, just came across your again site the other day after some years. Thought it had been removed. I read some article on clues missed and decided to send you some of my missed clues.

THE CLUES.

I started attending the worldwide church of God around 1974 in Australia as a young single man. Here are some of the clues that I over looked, but never forgot in near as chronological order as I can remember:

• I was invited to attend church on the next Saturday after a ministerial visit, I enquired of the minister and his assistant as to what I should wear to church and was told anything would be ok by the minister. I wore my best clothes. At the end of the service I got a message that the minister want to see me. Imagine my surprise when he told me what I was wearing was totally unacceptable. Couldn’t believe a “Christian” would set me up like that! Should have picked that clue up right from day 1.

• Moved to Melbourne a couple of weeks later to attend university. Was told in a sermon to burn books like 1972 (5?) in prophesy and never speak about them. No reason was given! The bible says that if a prophet’s prophesy that fails to come true that you are to take no notice of him!

• HWA disappears for 2/3 years, then starts his Gun lap campaign DEMANDING MEMBERS TO SEND IN MORE AND MORE MONEY! Once again it was no GUN LAP, just another failed prophesy!

• Later I was offered accommodation at a churchman & his wife’s residence. I was advised by the ministry that this would be a good thing.

      Turned out that they had already a few other young men stay with them before, to cut a long story short,  he was homosexual and made advances to me. He also told me he slept with the others he had staying  there previously.  One of the married ministers who said it was a good thing for me to stay there used to  visit frequently and spend hours at night in private “conversation” with the man. Years later a friend of his said how disappointed he was in me for not keeping in touch with him. I said nothing.

·         Moved to Sydney, and went to a Minister’s teenager’s party and quietly mention to someone that the music was satanic. The next day I got a visit a different minister who told me that I had greatly upset the minister’s wife and that I should apologise immediately (implication was if you didn’t you would be disfellowshiped).

      No discussion about the music!

      Well if there is such a thing as satanic music according to church teaching, that was it!

       However I apologised.

      Yes the church of “brotherly love” was full of people who loved to run to the minister and try to put someone else down!

      So much for the scripture about going to your brother first! I’ve never had time for those crawlers who flatter the minister but act completely different to normal person. If you can’t treat all people with respect and decency then there is something wrong!

·         Got engaged and went on a church camp, my future sister in-law and her husband invited me to sleep in their tent in a separate compartment. My fiancée was to sleep with her parents in a different tent. On arrival I was told that if I stayed in the tent as arranged by the person in charge that he would “knock my head off” in no uncertain manner. I said, I would like to see you try, but did as he requested.

·         Moved back to Melbourne and later shifted to country Victoria where we lived some 80 miles from the Church area because I could get cheap accommodation as tithes bled us dry! We travelled to church every Saturday, but we would very rarely be invited back to anyone’s place! Every church to this point we had attended was very cold and unfriendly towards us!

·         Garner Ted disfellowshipped on a $200000/yr retainer. People were sacrificing greatly to pay for a sinner! (madness)

·         Went to the feast with a church member and his wife in their car. We were nearly killed several times as the manic driver crossed double lines and nodded off to sleep on several occasions. That was truly frightening! This AC graduate later worked at the Australian headquarters, his co-worker and best mate murdered his own wife with a hammer! Strangely just before he got into headquarters he wanted absolutely nothing to do with my family, even sent back a photo of us taken with them years earlier.

     Anyway he died recently at age 54.

·         HWA given an honorary doctorate by President Marcos, who is named in the Guinness book of records as the greatest thief of all time!

·         HWA decides to visit a few world leaders, none of whom appear impressed with him. No prophet/servant of God in the bible ever gave world leaders precious gifts to gain their audience! Members duped once again into thinking it was God’s work!

·         Minister proclaims in sermon how wonderful and encouraged certain parents were after their son commits suicide in the local area and how their faith had been strengthened. Another son commits suicide the next week, didn’t hear anymore about how good that was!

·         Was invited to the minister’s assistant place one Friday night, left work as early as I could, travelled the 8o miles and got there at about 6:10. He wanted us to be there by 6:00, Imagine our surprise (& disgust) when we got there and he said they had already eaten & were given a lecture on the importance of punctuality, unbelievable!

·     Same minister proclaims what a good idea it was to have their children born on the  kitchen table!

·     Given a sermonette telling us what a good idea it would be to eat stinging nettles so     we could sent more money to the church.

·     Minister tells elder to take his child and belt him during a sermon for being noisy!

·     Minister sends elder to inform me that my wife’s bras weren’t suitable. I questioned   him why? But only got some garble reply! My wife reckons the minister was a   pervert and what was he doing looking in the first place at something that was completely covered! On reflection the only thing possibly wrong with the bras was that they came from the opp shops because we couldn’t afford better because the church took all our money.

·     After getting sick from the unhygienic food at a feast day, we decide to go to a restaurant instead next time. Promptly told we must fellowship with the brethren, even though they didn’t give stuff about us. More to the point the good food that we supplied always ended up on the ministers table!

·     Told continuously God inspires everything in the Church, a certain cold member was promoted to do prayers etc, but later reveal that had a false baptism by the minister! Crazy!

·     On arrival at a member’s place to observe the night to be much observed, we were told you can’t come in here because your car hasn’t been unleavened! (Of course it had been). Most of the people in this church area didn’t work and I suppose they just had to feel superior and putting other down was par for the course! The same member used a big magnifying glass like HWA even though he didn’t need glasses!

·     This was supposed to be the church of brotherly love and that always bothered me why no-one in the church showed true love; however my own “unconverted” family not in the church would always help and were nice even if we didn’t give birthday presents or have Christmas with them anymore!

·     Minister and his assistant arrive to disfellowship us, they had already disfellowshipped quiet a few who were supposedly not 110% committed.

Assistant proudly proclaims to look at the difference between him and me; he’d been to Ambassador College etc how wonderful he was! I remember sitting and thinking of the scripture about those comparing themselves to others are not wise! I said to the minister “with respect, on what scriptural grounds are you doing this?” He then said I can see a different attitude in you now and you can stay!

·     Minister says that I must give up my job and move into the local church area. I decide to move to Brisbane and keep my job and also be in a church area. (With no job, how was I supposed to support my family and tithe etc? Stuff going to a crazy area like that). Minister makes it known things will not work out for us. Well, later his wife and children leave him.

·     Moved to the Caboolture church, the brethren are just as bad as ever. On one on my holidays a church member asks me to help him move house. I did this willingly for 3-4 days without any recompense and he said that he probably wouldn’t need me the next day, but if he did he would be around by 10 am. I waited till well past 10 am and then went shopping. At about 12 noon announcement came over the loud speaker system at Kmart demanding that I report home immediately! Yes he had gone to my house and my daughter had told him where I was and he had rung Kmart demanding them to put over the announcement! (Shit!)

·     Told after a sermon to see the Minister. He said our daughter was spending too much time with a certain boy and I was to stop this. Daughter then decides to go and live with the boy at his house which is also a church family. Minister brings her back to speak mediate with us, but for no reason given allows her to remain at the boyfriend’s house.

·      Had enough of this shit and quit, no-one cares. No tries to contact us!

·      Look that’s just the tip of a very large iceberg………

·     My wife quiet often said “If that what the kingdom of God is like. I don’t want to be a part of it” I agreed at last! How stupid were we? Read the article “is proof irrefutable” that I wrote as to why I ignored all these warning signs.

·     By their fruits you shall know if they are my disciples was a scripture from day one has always troubled me greatly!

·     I conclude from all the evidence they definitely aren’t!

·     I wasn’t sure whether HWA was sincere or not, but I’m now convinced he was not because he got much of his materials from other books e.g.; USA etc in prophesy, Has time been lost, Proof of the bible, and how many more? 

     What’s wrong with that?

 Nothing, except he passed them off as his own work, proclaiming that they were his own inspired revelations from God, and that God was revealing special things through him, and he alone was God’s one true servant!

No true servant of God would ever be that dishonest!

I don’t think many members of the church suffered as much unjust persecution as I did and I don’t believe that I was ever nasty to any of them!

Well some 20 later after leaving the church, I still believe in God, Pray constantly and it seems to me god hears all my prayers. If he didn’t I sure wouldn’t be praying would I?  I believe that the majority of church members intended evil towards me out of evil hearts, but like Joseph in the bible God intended otherwise for me! From observation an experience it seems Christian values and ideals are the way to go! As the bible says there is no counsel or understanding against the Lord.

Ex-member Australia

Those are pretty good clues.  Amazing how similar the stories are that we hear, though the details are different.  I'd say you gave them a fair trial before you left.  The evidence against them was overwhelming, and you made the right decision at last.  Thanks for sharing the facts with us.

1/22/09

Please e-mail the movie "In bed with Garner Ted" THE MOVIE.

Thank You,

Robert

Movie here

1/23/09

Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden (Or the discrimination against "Women" in general.)

In the bible the story goes that "Eve" was persuaded by a snake (the Devil) to take the fruit from the tree of good and evil. 

She then convince Adam to also take of the fruit. 

What happens, they get kicked out of the garden of Eden.

Now the moral of the story is that "Eve" was weak, being a women and therefore of the weaker gender.

Considering how weak she was, she didn't have all too much difficulty in convincing "Adam" in taking of the fruit.

The story gets complicated from here, because we have to take a step back.

The "devil" (male gender) convinces through trickery "Eve" (female gender) to take and taste the fruit from the "tree of good and evil"

"Eve" then convinces "Adam" (male gender) to try the fruit as well.

Now who is really to blame for this turn of events, male or female?

This is the correct order of manipulation?

Male gender manipulates female gender who then manipulates male gender.

The female gender has been blamed for the downfall of mankind, but in reality it's the male gender that's at fault.

This has been cleverly disguised and used against the female gender for centuries.

So who is really responsible for our downfall? (Debatable is the question of downfall, since I don't think we've fallen down.)

Men and not Women!

I am an atheist, so I don't really care about what the bible says. 

But I do care about what people do with what the bible says.

The discrimination against women in the bible starts in the first chapter, and I am no specialist on the bible, but it wouldn't surprise me if there were a few more examples of this discrimination against women.

"Discrimination" is not love, it is hate. The women of our planet have been living under this kind of discrimination for thousands of years, and this because some very smart men have decided to use women as easy scapegoats.

Men have dominated literature for centuries, giving only their view of the world.

This dominance goes back many, many, many generations and crosses over all cultural boundaries.

This explains in part why so many religions are so male dominated and anti female. But only in part!

So when you read the story about Adam and Eve, remember there's a small lope hole in the story that puts the blame on the right gender.

Ray

P.s. let me know if you see any other lope holes in this story... thanks

Sounds like you nailed it.  I lean toward the theory advanced in Dan Brown's DaVinci Code that this was all done to discredit goddess worship, which was very prominent in the ancient world.  Your evaluation fits that theory. Read more here.

2/3/09

I found your site quite interesting and informative.  And I am a Bible-believing Christian.

I got mixed up in the Cult of Herbie in the mid-1980s, when I was in junior high...I sent away for literature.  In 1991, when I was 18, I decided to see if there were any congregations in my area. 

I met my husband at a FoT in 1992.  We were engaged months later.  Our respective ministers were trying to discourage us, especially since he was baptized and I wasn't.  We had to get HQ's blessing...they gave it the okay since I was a believer.  We got married in 1993 and we had our 15th anniversary last summer.

Now how we got out of there--The changes that "Pope" Joe I instituted.  I started asking myself...if they weren't preaching the truth then, how do I know they're preaching it now?  And services, at least to me, were getting to look a bit like what I hear goes on at Pentecostal meetings, a major turn-off for us.

Well, we officially gave them the heave-ho around 2002, after not having attended for several years.  Since then I have learned that the sabbath and Holy Days were given ONLY to Israel (the church is not Israel or a continuation of it) and that there is NOTHING in the Bible that commands Christians to tithe--much less a triple tithe!  (How many churches will own up to THAT?)

We do not attend a church.  You don't need to meet in a certain building on a certain day.  Christianity is not a religion, either.

Our son was born in 2001, long after we stopped attending, so he didn't get to be brainwashed with "Pope" Joe II's nonsense.

I have found out the hard way that there's money to be made in twisting the Bible around.  What really makes me mad is finding out that Herbie was living high up on the hog, had money, booze, and broads, and we were struggling to get by!

Yes, religion is a racket.  Glad I got out of it.


Alexandra

I’m glad you got out too.  Thanks for your story.